Doom Diver Crew?

[bsharitt]

What is part of the war machine, and what counts as crew for the doom diver catapult?There's the catapult itself that's pretty self explanatory, and the lone grot by himself would seem to count for a crew model? Buy what about the two grots on the cavalry base that are connected, but not really the same model as the catapult? Are they part of the catapult, or do they count as crew models? And even though they are two crew, I'm assuming the one base means they count as one model?

[Warboss Gorbolg]

There are 4 crew members per the warscroll.  So the cavalry base must be 2 models, along with 1 on the diver and 1 flying through the air.

[Malakree]

So the one thing which gets me on the Gitmob Artillery Warscrolls is the wording of it always states "A Warmachine and A unit of Grot Crew" which suggests they are infact two separate units which you buy together. 

It leads to a whole bunch of questions surrounding that but I had the same thought when it came to rock lobbers.

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah I've found this ambiguous.  I normally deploy them as one unit because they have a single Pitched Battle profile. 

When applying wounds I normally opt to apply them to the machine itself first, because:

- it has a better save

- it is useless without the crew

- the crew have such chronic bravery that if one or two die, they're all probably going!

The other dodgy one is that the machine itself doesn't have the Gitmob keyword, so most people apply this to mean that the Shaman's spell doesn't apply to it, but to the crew only.  While it seems a bit daft, I can't argue with the logic - the machine itself is not Gitmob unfortunately.

Interested to hear how everyone else deals with them?

[GurrokkGutsplitta]

The crew and war machine are two separate units, they have separate warscrolls for each. Each war scrolls Description section should explain exactly what they consist of.

That also means that you do not get this chose what takes the wounds rather your opponent gets to chose which unit to target.

[PlasticCraic]

Makes sense!

[someone2040]

I kinda wish they'd just done a combined profile for all the war machines, and had the crew pieces purely there for aesthetical reasons like they were in 8th edition.

It would add a degree of consistency across how war machines work. I mean, why do the Skaven ones work differently to Grot artillery or Ironweld Arsenal? The only difference is that the Skaven ones are all on a single base. Their ones don't even downgrade as crew dies either.

For example, you could make the Grot Rock Lobber something like this.

Which IMO makes it a lot easier to determine how you play the game. Don't have to worry about whether the crew are a separate drop or not. Don't have to worry about whether you pay points for a crew. It's all there on the one warscroll, and all that was necessary was adding a melee weapon and an extra column in the damage table.

 

One of the reasons that artillery are so ****** in the game at the moment is that you can remove the crew members super easy as long as you've got the range. Stardrake rain of stars and you may as well be down a couple hundred points from turn 1.

[Malakree]

The onew advantags is that a single grot crew could crew two machines with clever positioning no?

[someone2040]

14 hours ago, Malakree said:

The onew advantags is that a single grot crew could crew two machines with clever positioning no?

I think it's debatable as to whether or not crew can switch over war machines.

All the references in say, the Grot War Artillery rule on the Grot Rock Lobber make mention of its crew, which to me implies the crew you get with it as part of the package. 

Personally i would much rather the combined profile approach which has no ambiguity in these kinda situations as opposed to a niche good situations where crews can fire two mar machines or the like.

[meet.the.doctor]

On 2 lutego 2018 at 10:15 AM, Malakree said:

The onew advantags is that a single grot crew could crew two machines with clever positioning no?

It makes perfect sense and even more - if you combine 2 crews next to each other to get the bonuses, and you loose one crew, next turn you can use half of the crew from the other machine and you can operate both but with half efficiency. I am not sure if one full crew can operate 2 machines in one turn, but if there is no faqs against than... Should be legal;) but then you would loose the neighbouring crew bonus... Unless the "within itself" BS shenanigan  

[Strammefar]

On 2/3/2018 at 12:56 AM, someone2040 said:

...

All the references in say, the Grot War Artillery rule on the Grot Rock Lobber make mention of its crew, which to me implies the crew you get with it as part of the package.

..

On all three warscrolls it says "it's crew" when it refers to moving the war machine. When using attacks it says "crew within 1" ". 

I always place my crew strategically so that they can operate both Chukkas/ Doomdivers. 

[someone2040]

8 hours ago, Strammefar said:

On all three warscrolls it says "it's crew" when it refers to moving the war machine. When using attacks it says "crew within 1" ". 

I always place my crew strategically so that they can operate both Chukkas/ Doomdivers. 

That's not true.

Quote

Grot War Artillery: A Rock Lobber catapult can only move if its crew are within 1" at the start of the movement phase. If its crew are within 1" of the Rock Lobber in the shooting phase, they can fire the war machine. The war machine cannot make charge moves, does not need to take battleshock tests and is unaffected by any attack or ability that uses Bravery. The crew are in cover while they are within 1" of their war machine.

All 3 warscrolls (Doom Diver, Chukka, Rock Lobber) have the exact same rule that all reference its crew. 

Additionally, all the 'competitive' rules the Grot War machines reference the war machine being within 3" of another <X> Crew (Where X is the type of war machine). So it must be a distinction between the war machines crew and other crews for that to be possible.

So my assumption would be that only the crew you purchase with the war machine can actually crew that particular one.

 

Also as mentioned, personally I prefer the combined war machine warscroll because it rules out any possibilities of uncertaintity in circumstances like this. 

[Strammefar]

@someone2040 I have completely overlooked that sentence! Goddammit, now my Grot army got a little bit weaker. Now I'm really looking forward to getting some new rules for my Grots. 

I must say, that I hope that they solve theese uncertainties. A combined warscroll would also give the war machine the 'Gitmob' keyword, making it brutal with a Gitmob shaman. 

[PlasticCraic]

On 2/2/2018 at 2:41 PM, GurrokkGutsplitta said:

The crew and war machine are two separate units, they have separate warscrolls for each. Each war scrolls Description section should explain exactly what they consist of.

That also means that you do not get this chose what takes the wounds rather your opponent gets to chose which unit to target.

I agree with the logic, but I actually think it leads to the opposite conclusion 

 

This is only 1 Warscroll entitled "Grot Rock Lobber".  There is not a separate one for the crew - there are just two separate profiles on the same Warscroll.  The indications being:

- There is only a single Description ("A Grot Rock Lobber consists of a catapult war machine and a unit of 4 Grot Crew") and Abilities section for both combined

- There is only one Warscroll to download on the AOS app (there is no Warscroll for Grot Rock Lobber Crew)

- The box around the Warscroll goes around both pages, boxing the 2 pages in together and presenting them as a single Warscroll

- There is only one Warscroll to download on the AOS app (there is no Warscroll for Grot Rock Lobber Crew)

- They have a single Pitched Battle profile and can only be purchased together as a single unit

- The heading at the top in the standard format for a Warscroll is a single heading

 

 

So everything there is pointing me towards them being a single Warscroll, not two separate Warscrolls.  There is no separate Description for the war machine and its crew, only one for the combined Warscroll.

 

[Hot Peanut]

We are always playing with two different units, the crew and the machine itself which is also handled seperatly.

Also we allow a crew to operate multiple machines if they are at their reach, but if you have a unit of a 4 man crew,  you can place 2 of them to the other machine.

You loose some benefits, but at least it is in action  again. 

The opponent can choose which unit he attacks but the crew has a hiding bonus near the machine.

It is also possible to release the crew from the war machine and run around, lets say for objectives or whatsoever.

I think the argument that it is only on warscroll is bean counting, if it would make a difference, and yes they come in one box, but be glad about it

not to buy the crew seperatley.

In the end everybody can choose how to play the war machines...