Malakithe

'Competitive' Ironjawz

778 posts in this topic

You are correct, if you make brutes/gore gruntas/ardboyz battle line then yes you lose the d6 move, didnt catch that! thanks for pointing it out! That list is still gonna work though, just a little extra less movement which is a bummer, but it is till fast since the mega bosses do all the killing! But gives me more reason to take my 3 battleline orruks with 3 maw krushas instead :)! I'll edit my post

Edited by Stauderpower

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But ironfist formation costs 60 and destruction allegiance is free. Until ironjawz get allegiance bonuses of their own, shouldn't they get to use the free bonuses mixed destruction forces can take? Or are sylvaneth just going to be overpowered until other factions get an appendix to their battle times? 

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5 minutes ago, N_Watson said:

But ironfist formation costs 60 and destruction allegiance is free. Until ironjawz get allegiance bonuses of their own, shouldn't they get to use the free bonuses mixed destruction forces can take? Or are sylvaneth just going to be overpowered until other factions get an appendix to their battle times? 

1. I would like that...but in the leaks it doesn't read that way. I had to pound it through my thick skull with a brick, but that's how it works.

2. Yes. :D

Edited by Dez

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Well there is an unbeaten sylvaneth player at my GW using their new rules this week. I'm house rulling this ****** when I play him lol. 

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I think it's still a case of wait for the new rules for bonesplitterz and beastclaw, if gw was going to alter any destruction rules including ironjawz, it'll be then.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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Actually one of the leaks said if you can claim allegiance to either one you get to pick. It's not forced. You have keyword ironjawz and destruction. The one doesnt overwrite the other

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The text makes it clear you can choose if you qualify for two, but you would be mad to forgo the battle trait, command trait and artefacts in exchange for avoiding having to take 3 junk Battleline units. While they don't override, you have to pick and don't get both.

Edited by Nico

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I think it's just the trait you miss out on by going all Ironjawz.

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I just reread it and the only reason to take all ironjaws is for the awesome battleline units, the trade off is you cannot use any traits or artifacts from destruction since it specifically says you have to choose either faction or subfaction (forget the exact wording)

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Hopefully they don't wait too long to release updates to existing factions then. 

Until they release them, I'm sure my group will be ignoring that rule. 

Store owner said he heard they would be updating them, just a matter of time I guess. 

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I think you only lose the Battle Trait.

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That changes everything I had not twigged either that pure ironjaws would not get the extra bonuses, sure the battleline thing is great as you be taking these units anyway but the loss of the extra move etc... Make them a lot less competitive in my view :-(

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On ‎08‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 6:36 PM, Stauderpower said:

***army list***

This is about as optimized as I think you can make pure ironjawz and probably only acceptable in a tourney as this is pretty brutal.

Hhmmm...I don't think you'll be winning many of the Matched Plan battleplans with that list. No where near enough bodies (a general problem with Ironjawz). Double Cabbage is super cool, but unless you are smashing your opponent off the table (entirely possible!) and walking 10 Ardboyz up to an objective ftw, I can't see much potential for success.

On ‎08‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 7:36 PM, Dez said:

If I understand it, Ironjawz becomes your Allegiance. So you gain the ability to take Ardboyz/Brutes/Gore-gruntaz as your Battle line, but lose the extra D6 movement in the Hero phase. This can be worked around a bit by taking the Ironfist Battalion...though it would be better to take both!

Wow. Great spot. I will need to double check the wording but this could be massive :( 

On ‎09‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 6:26 AM, Sangfroid said:

That changes everything I had not twigged either that pure ironjaws would not get the extra bonuses, sure the battleline thing is great as you be taking these units anyway but the loss of the extra move etc... Make them a lot less competitive in my view :-(

Yup, this is huge. I'd literally just got my head around going pure Ironjawz this weekend, but as you say, this could change everything.

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So some of you may need to read this. Go ahead, read it. I'll wait here. 

Get all that? Good! Wait, what? You're still confused? Hmm, I think we all are until we get the book in our hands and the FAQ at our fingertips. It basically boils down to this:

You make your list, Ironjawz Allegiance with Brutes/Ardboyz/Gore-gruntaz as Battle line. You and your opponent do all your setup stuff, you deploy your army...and then declare 'NANNY NANNY BOO BOO! I'M DECLARING DESTRUCTION ALLEGIANCE! SUCK A TROGGOTH ******!' Then you benefit from the extra D6 move in the hero phase, 2D6 if you took the Ironfist formation, and some pretty rock hard models on the board that don't need to worry about lesser Orcs or Grots getting caught underfoot. 

Is it enough?

I'm not sure. It's a great boost for sure, we'll be in combat right where we need to be and it will be fast. The thing we need to worry about now is resilience. I'd read earlier that you need 5 models to hold an objective, and my immediate thought was that Min/Max was dead long live Nagash and all that. I did see a sneaky scan of the missions, and it's not a UNIT with 5 models...just 5 models. So a Mawkrusha, 3 Gore-gruntaz and a Warchanter could hold objectives. Our only problem is we only get 5 Brutes for the minimum, and once our opponent exhales that Troggoth ****** on the Brutes we're in trouble.

Enter da Ardboyz!

What now, though? How should we equip them. This changes everything! Does it? I dunno! I went all 2H, and now I'm thinking some Shields for resilience would be good. Maybe I don't care because I'm going to take the Ardfist formation and my opponent can go suck another Troggoth ******. Now I'm worried my Warchanter is going to die...so I'll add a Weirdnob for Mystic Shield. Am I investing points wisely?

I don't know, I'm just throwing Troggoth farts around and seeing what stinks.

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Yeah please everyone do check my other thread. I did consider adding it in here but didn't want to clog things up. It certainly needs the FAQ, as whilst it may have been their intent all along, I'm not convinced it's worded that way at all!! But, I'm certainly not arguing, it's a good thing for sure.

What it does suggest is that there is unlikely to be any traits/artefacts added by way of PDF for existing Battletomes (I'm not sure any of us were expecting that anyway though), but that's cool - the Destruction bonuses work very nicely with Ironjawz.

5 hours ago, Dez said:

Is it enough?

Um....It's certainly a very very good thing and at least allows us to continue this topic under the heading of 'Competitive' Ironjawz. Without it, I think we'd strongly have to consider paying a 300 point "core tax" to access the trait. But hey ho, not a problem now. We can basically ignore the last page of fear and trepidation and go back to trying to make solo Ironjawz compete again.

I am at a gaming/camping/drinking event thingy this week from Thursday-Sunday this week. The only AoS I'm going to pack is my Ironjawz. Whilst there will be plenty of other gaming and shenanigans, I am hopeful of getting in at least a few 2,000 point GH style games with the army, so will be able to report back next week. I'm likely to be able to face some stiff competition and strong armies, which will be good for stress testing. I'll post up what I'm planning to use nearer the time.

6 hours ago, Dez said:

I did see a sneaky scan of the missions, and it's not a UNIT with 5 models...just 5 models.

Yeh, most (all?) the Matched Play Battleplans are on number of models I believe. Not the most elegant way of doing things and actually does make taking generic Destruction Battleline a valid option just to get extra bodies on the table. I think perhaps going forward this might be one of the things we see TO's changing. But, lets not get over excited, the book isn't even out yet haha! Definitely makes Ardboyz a super solid choice in pure Ironjawz and maybe you'd opt for shields for the survivability.

 

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That's great news. Does that mean our best bets would be to take either ironfist or gore fist battalions? If side pools are still a thing, I think I'd have these as my two possible options along with gordrakk and some shamans / warchanters

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4 minutes ago, FunkyPunk said:

That's great news. Does that mean our best bets would be to take either ironfist or gore fist battalions? If side pools are still a thing, I think I'd have these as my two possible options along with gordrakk and some shamans / warchanters

Yeh both those Battalions are really nice alongside the Destruction Battle Trait, Rampaging Destroyers. Lots of extra movement. There is a Command Trait which further extends this.

All these additional movement buffs are going to be really important for the Ironjawz...not just for winging our armies straight forward into the opponent either! In objective based games, or ones where you need to be in a certain part of the battlefield, these will really augment the otherwise sluggish Ironjawz.

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Yesssss....speed brutes are back on!

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13 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Yesssss....speed brutes are back on!

Indeed. It was a dark 24 hours or so there right?!

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Awesome news! 

 

It it also really makes ardboyz in an ironfist more important because without running and the +2 command trait they can go 8-18" (so a 12-34" charge threat due to +2 to charge musican so probably like around 23" average which is not to shabby) or 9-22" with a run if your trying to grab or contest objectives (9-22" brutes 14-27" goregruntas) even with average rolls you can almost redeploy your whole army so feinting the opponent into deployment mistakes possibly or make solid long charges the opponent isn't really expecting, or give away priority only to then contest an objective they weren't expecting you to get too and getting ground on scenarios 

Edited by Sangfroid

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14 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

you can almost redeploy your whole army so feinting the opponent into deployment mistakes possibly

 

14 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

or give away priority only to then contest an objective they weren't expecting you to get too and getting ground on scenarios 

Running straight forward and making long charges aside, it's the ability to do things like this that I think will make Ironjawz playable. Allowing us to be reactionary, rather that pretty static and limited post deployment.

I agree an Ironfist is probably a must and at 60 points its a bit of a steal tbh. I also agree that Ardboyz are more and more seeming like a really solid choice. I just prefer the Brute models so much more, but that sentiment doesn't really belong in this thread!! :S 

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@Chris Tomlin something like this list would allow a range of excellent options and aesthetically look pretty good on the table top too 

: Mawcrusha megaboss (with meteoric hammerblade)

Megaboss (general with +1 to hit trait and battlebrew) 

ironfist with 

15 ardboyz 

15 ardboyz

10 brutes (2" range probably best here)

3 goregruntas

3 goregruntas  

=1980 

so you also get a once per game reroll hits/wounds/saves if your opponent deploys 1990 or 2000 (depending on what your roll on the table second page of matched play section before points) 

its 3 drops so has chance to pick first turn 

the mawcrusha can work as a fire magnet and fly off and get krumpin (love that expression) you don't want any of your boyz near him when he uses the hammer-blade or you could drop 10 ardboyz or 3 goregruntas and take    Gordrakk 

general has himself and 5 units about so can get +2a on a 6 and can also pick a unit to get +1 to hit per turn to illustrate how much difference this makes look at 3 goregruntas with choppas 

No buffs the riders will get 4 attacks thru for enemy to save and the mounts 3 

with the two buffs above the riders get 7 thru and the mounts 5

combine this on the brutes with the reroll 1s from megaboss too and they should get near 26 thru for enemy to save (some 2 damage or d3 damage) even a mawcrusha would probably go down to that if not mystic shielded! 

Also battle brew makes megaboss hit and wound on 2s (yum yum) 

The great thing about it is as discussed earlier you could swap out the 15 ardboyz (and 5 from the other) and just have 10 more brutes instead

 

Makes me want 10 brutes and 3 more gorgruntas and go full ironjaws.....

Edited by Sangfroid

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You cant go 15 ardboys gotta pay in blocks of 10!

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You CAN go 15...but you are paying for 20 :)

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