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Gwendar

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  1. Gwendar
    It definitely does, and as pointed out is basically Dan Brewers list which he's seen success with. I don't care much for Acolytes, but that's a personal preference and I'm not saying they're bad because they absolutely aren't.. I just find that I get more mileage (and ease of use) out of Fiends than I do Acolytes. As for Monks\SV.. still a toss up for me. SV will absolutely hit harder but I think it's getting that extra attack from the Clawlord (and\or with Skavenbrew) that sets them apart. That said, 80 Monks or 40 + an HPA can also be quite good but you have to throw in 120 points for that 3rd battleline of Clanrats. Screaming Bell still has a place and as much as I dislike the thing, it's nearly a requirement until the Warpseer drops back down to 280-300 points (I'm sure GW disagrees) and that's especially true if you're running SV. Oh, and Jezzails are 100% a top tier unit.. taken in anything between 6-12 is still where you want them. More and more people have been taking 1 large unit of 12 which have some decent applications in killing more than just heroes or behemoths... but nowhere near as well as Fiends, Acolytes, SV or Monks.
  2. Gwendar
    True, I didn't really think about that honestly. Treason (hopefully it will kill at least 1 model) + Enfeeble + Suggestion is a total of -2 to hit and wound which is absurd. Be'lakor could shut a unit down for the Enlightened to hit, but my question then becomes this: If the opposing unit is shut down and can't attack in the combat phase, are they still counted as having fought for the purposes of the Enlightened RR's? I believe it's a yes as they have to "activate" in order to fight, but the Visions of the Past says they need to have "fought" and not "activate". Curious on others thoughts as I can see people disagreeing with that at a local level by saying "well, they didn't technically fight this turn so you don't get RR's".. so I can see it both way's. EDIT: Found the answer from someone in Discord. "If the unit affected by Be'Lakors ability is eligible to be selected to fight in the combat phase it must do so as per the core rules. Be'Lakors ability specifically doesn't stop you from fighting it stops you from ATTACKING. The unit affected may still pile in as normal as it has been selected to fight however if it fails the 5+ it cannot ATTACK. As per the core rules that fight sequence therefore ends and the unit affected is then classified as having fought for the purposes of the enlightened." This is what I assumed was correct, but I wanted to get a straight answer from others before any arguments popped up in my local scene about it.
  3. Gwendar
    Who needs BS immunity if you kill all the important threats and end the game? In all seriousness I do like it, I think you'd be fine. This is very reliant on you getting a double-turn, in my opinion. Luckily, everything can easily go right for you and you only need Cogs to happen. The reason I say you need a double is that many armies can screen against this and keep their important (IE unreachable with 12" Ratlings or Monks) stuff behind it. If they go next, your stuff has a good chance at being dead so just keep that in mind. If they deploy poorly then 100% go for it if you can remove threats that would counter your Fiends + Monks even if they went next. Worth noting you could drop 20 Clanrats and take the Bell of Doom and an extra CP which is another charge reroll or BS immunity; both of which are important here. Bell may have an issue getting up the board to help the Fiends or Monks unless you cast it T2.. but could still be worth.
  4. Gwendar
    Honestly I would go with Be'lakor if you really want him. Like we've said the last page or so.. he's just great all around for the points just for shutting a unit down which can heavily swing things in your favor if needed. Again, I love the Changecaster on a BW.. but yeah if you don't have access to one he isn't as great. Throwing out those two d6 MW spells at 24" is just wonderful and I especially like it in Hosts Duplicitous for the casting RR's. Oh and I forgot to mention, you can't take Aura of Mutability on the Scribes as it's a named character, as is the Changeling. The "standard" Changehost list I use looks like this in case you were curious: And oh yeah, Enlightened still hit relatively okay without the re-rolls... but the difference between getting them and not is pretty staggering. Definitely try everything out... I think you really need 3-5 games against multiple armies to really gauge what you can start swapping out.
  5. Gwendar
    Always risky, but I feel more pressured to go for it nowadays or just get blasted off the board.. I can't really play as cagey as I used to. I still really vouch for the Bridge honestly.. I don't think you should be reliant on it, but if you can make it happen it's very helpful. Obviously if you don't get it then you have a 100 point paperweight for a turn which feels pretty bad, but that's not as many armies as you may think that will prevent you from doing that; the biggest threats are honestly just Tzeentch, Lumineth and Seraphon and even they have a chance to fail which could be a death sentence for them. The only bad thing with Grinder + Fiends is just Deranged Inventor not being MMMWP. That said, it "only" cuts off 5-7 damage on average. Still thinking Cogs may be worth a test, we'll see if I can fit them in somewhere and maybe get some games in this week\weekend.
  6. Gwendar
    Yep, Balewind.. before long though, none of us may have it since it's discontinued it seems so I'm enjoying it for now. For your 1st: I assume you're trying to stay at 1750? Not big on Warpflame, but I get you're reasoning for bringing it. You actually could bring Changehost if you drop a Pink unit and replace it with a unit of Blues and you have 90 points to play with. Don't doubt yourself on Changehost.. it's not hard to use effectively. Just don't let yourself get baited into deploying Flamers right into someones face or anything unless you can for sure take out an important piece as you may lose them afterwards unless you win priority. If you can trade 140 points for 200+ points or something acting as a force multiplier like, say, a 110-160 point Skryre Wizard that makes Stormfiends do 60% more damage with buffs or that Soulmason giving RR 1's to stuff, etc. For your 2nd: Pinks are definitely awesome, just remember that you can get 10 Blues for half the price which could come in clutch at the right time... so don't get too caught up on saving for 10 Pinks if you can section off an objective with some Blues as you may lose turn priority and it gets taken from you. Skyfires vs Enlightened is something I struggle with too, but honestly I just find Skyfires easier to use and Destiny Dice can help take out those 5 wound support heroes (Use 2-3 of your 6's to kill it with MW's) and they will still clear pretty much any 10-20 man 5-6+ save screen if they fight first. Enlightened want those re-rolls which makes them riskier to use if you run them into an equally punchy unit. The key in that scenario is to make sure you charge the side of a unit to limit how many things can pile into you... but I mean if we're talking about things like 20 Hearthguard Berserkers even letting 6 of them hit you could remove 2-3 Enlightened. Otherwise, you just strike first and ignore the RR's but you really hamper their output this way.
  7. Gwendar
    I would say too few, honestly. If you want a LoC on the board with Kairos it would probably be better to just run GoS and throw out enough spells to make sure you get 9 FP on T1. Not to say it's a bad idea or anything and it could work, I just think you typically get more value out of multiple wizards and only having 1 of the chickens to start with. Things like a BW + Changecaster (2 d6 MW spells assuming you take Bolt) or Blue Scribes (RR's or getting off hard to cast spells on top of being a fast summoning platform) are hard for me to pass up in any list.
  8. Gwendar
    You're typically using this with the intention of trying to get a double turn. A screen for them is nice, definitely.. but I don't believe it's worth the points for another Grinder for that purpose. At that point you may as well use 10 Nightrunners for the same price and hope they can run up fast enough to stand in front (battleplan\deployment dependent). Not to mention, if you're deploying 20-40 Clanrats in front of 6 Fiends then that's a potential 2-4" the Fiends are losing from both units needing to be setup more than 9" away (which could mean they don't get to shoot what they want with their Ratling Cannons). A lot of the time when using them in this manner I'm also trying to charge the Fiends in to something not super threatening; it's all about applying pressure to multiple sides of the board which is why you also run SV or Monks with it to hit the other side and force them to choose.
  9. Gwendar
    You take Gnawholes no matter what. They have nothing to do with any keywords; they're terrain and not units.
  10. Gwendar
    Yeah, I mean I had a list for a tournament a month or so ago using 2 Grinders + Cogs and 40 Monks in each. Worked out okay, but wasn't something I'd do again as it was a bit gimmicky.. although +3 to charge made them pretty consistent. The thing with my 1 Grinder list is that I can place either the Fiends or the SV\Monks into it and have the other unit come out of a Gnawhole. If I dropped some Clanrats I could definitely take Cogs, so could be worth experimenting... although I know it works well enough because I had this exact thing done to me against a top rated skaven tournament player 🤣(minus the Cogs.. if he had those it would've meant his SV got in T1)
  11. Gwendar
    Always worth looking at it from all angles 😉 Despite having 3 bad games with it, I still think it has it's merits and can do well against a lot of armies.. I just don't think they really need Grinders and would much rather just bring Fiends. Hell, I'm seriously considering trying out 2x6 Fiends this weekend sometime.
  12. Gwendar
    Like I said, it's worth trying and I still totally love seeing people try it out (I mean, it's fun as hell to run a real backfield gunline 😉) but I want you to consider these scenarios: 1. They will likely outdrop you and can choose to go first to move everything further up the board to prevent you getting in range with the Jezzails and cover Gnawholes (in case you decide to use those instead). You now have to spend your turn killing Skink hordes in order to hopefully get him next turn if you win priority, which means your Jezzails are probably near your deployment edge on board after deploying via Grinder which has, more or less, rendered it useless for it's purpose. If you have other threats in the army that start on the board then they can clear said Skinks for them to deploy next turn.. but now Kroak may have 1-2 turns to start deleting stuff. 2. Alternatively you could be given the first turn and you bring down all 24 Jezzails right away to be in range. What you would do in this situation is kill all the Guard first with 1 block of 12 and then try to kill Kroak with the other block of 12. You will 100% kill the 5 Guard unless you roll horrifically (believe me it happens when you least need it to with Jezzails and you'll RR 6 1's into 2's and 3's 😅) but Kroak still has a decent chance, although not a great chance.. usually if you both roll average you will maybe have just enough damage output to kill him (6-9 wounds going through on average after rolling this 15 times on TTS just now rather than using mathhammer). Oh, and none of these calculations were done using the Coalesced rule of -1 damage taken.. so if you include that, even if you split 24 Jezzails evenly you wouldn't kill Kroak but you may still kill the Guard. In the end however, you still may end up being the loser: You have now put your 24 Jezzails in threat range of their Salamanders, 40 blocks of Skinks (which can do 15-20 MW's on average when buffed) or double-shooting Bastiladons or -insert 1 of 5 threats they can easily have on the board at a time due to most things being undercosted-. They will likely not survive any of those things.. and definitely not if they get a double turn. Not to mention you'll probably only have enough CP to save 1 block if it doesn't get wiped out, but not the other.. unless you're running the Bell of Doom and put it up the board. You just spent 1200 points worth of stuff (not counting the Engineer here) to kill 420 points and their army can still function at nearly 100% without him. I guess what I'm saying is that it probably isn't super worth it to kill him unless you're certain you can do it with no retaliation to your Jezzails. I find with Seraphon that their other heroes are the ones to kill along with their units who are mostly glass (barring the Bastiladon obviously... but MW's take care of that thing anyway) and die to a stiff breeze just like we do. Because of this, I feel that Stormfiends are just the better choice as they're more likely to stick around from getting counter punched if you mess up or lose the priority roll and 6-9 Jezzails are good to have as a secondary threat to plink wounds off things or kill those small heroes that actually do most of the buffing. If you play against the tournament standard Lumineth lists (60-80 Sentinels) you'll likely have about the same situation as they'll knock your 2 threats out with the remaining 2+ that they have. KO actually have a hard time against what you're doing; you keep both of your threats off the board and when they drop down to shoot at everything else, you drop yours down and take out their boats. Definitely give it a shot cause I'm curious to see how it works for you.. hopefully better than it did for me even though I didn't have Grinders 🤣 also, sorry for the text wall.. all of you should be used to me going overboard with explanations and all that by now. I don't mean any of what I said as rude, so I apologize if it came off that way
  13. Gwendar
    Just to bounce off this bit here, I really think people running Flamers + Changehost should really look at squeezing in a Soulscream Bridge. It essentially makes you a teleporting castle (a-la-CoS with Irondrakes) with another teleport available as needed. I think it actually works super well with this kinds of setup that are really dependent on T1\2 tabling an opponent.
  14. Gwendar
    Hence my reasoning for getting back into Tzeentch and dabbling in Fyreslayers (although I still consider getting back into OBR myself...kinda wish I didn't sell them) I just got a bit burnt out playing against all the KO, 60+ Sentinels in Lumineth and 12+ Flamers Changehost that are all nearly inescapable. The worst part about Seraphon now isn't the Salamanders as that seems to have dropped off; now it's the -1 damage allegiance with Kroak just wiping your 5 wound heroes off the board while he sits in an unreachable corner. My local meta is incredibly casual aside from ~3-4 guys including myself so these kinds of lists don't show up.. but TTS has definitely been good for the tournament practice were these things are 100% going to in abundance and tough for us to deal with (though not impossible). 2-3 is still fine; 2 if you're using Grinders to keep 1-2 of them off the board and 3 at a minimum for anything else.. hell, even in those situations I still say bring a Grinder. There are flat out just going to be bad matchups and there isn't much getting around that, but having 1-2 Grinders to keep things off the board is helpful so far. Everything in our army dies to a stiff breeze as by nature we're squishy. The "glass cannon" method we're used to works, but it's hinged on lynchpin models such as 5-6 wound Skryre Wizards giving a spell buff (easily dispelled nowadays) onto units that do next to no damage without it and those wizards are incredibly easy to kill with no means of defense (which is why I've preached to have 40k's version of Look out, Sir be a thing). In your case, if you're set on Acolytes then it isn't as huge of a blow as they can still function relatively well as anti-everything (primarily horde with the +1 to hit) and 6 Jezzails even without a spark have about a 50/50 chance at deleting a 5 wound hero, assuming they have no form of DPR. Anyway, ranting aside, I would agree with Skreech that it's worth trying; if after 3-5 games (against different armies preferably) you find it isn't working for you then you can re-evaluate and change. I've ran 5-threat lists before and they worked okay, but I wouldn't say they were better.. I'd much rather have fewer, larger threats (6 Fiends, 6-9 Jezzails and 40 SV\Monks) and minimum Clanrats.
  15. Gwendar
    The way I understand it is how you've put it, more or less; If things happen at the same time then the player chooses which happens first (assuming everything happening is coming from 1 player, but if they have some end of movement phase shenanigans it would alternate with the active player choosing first) so you definitely could pull reserves in first and then activate the Sigil. Hard to say on that one.. I was sure with 100% confidence that the "in addition" just means that it also has that effect no matter what, but I'm not so sure in this particular instance since it's referring to "...the spell is not unbound". Maybe a rules team email is in question?
  16. Gwendar
    Worth trying. 12 Jezzails with just a spark and hit RR's are throwing out around 16 damage on average; works especially well against then as they would only get their 4+\6+ DPR. I just really don't feel that Jezzails need a grinder, especially against Fyreslayers.. that 36" threat range is covering most of the board from T1. Your entire goal here is basically to kill those heroes to get the HGB to a 6+ DPR and then blow them off the table. I feel like with only 24 Jezzails you may be looking at a minimum of 2-3 turns to do this and if even 10 of those HGB touch 40 Clanrats it could be bad (although in this case Poleaxes are the worse choice, imo). I really think 6 Fiends + Grinder is the way to go with a complementary 6-12 Jezzails, personally.
  17. Gwendar
    To be honest I really think you only want 1-2. 1 For 6 Fiends definitely.. but remember your Gnawholes; you can make do pretty well with Jezzails coming out of them (or have the Skyre Wizard pop up near the Grinder team Fiends) but they would still work well enough.. also doesn't have the risk of killing any models like the Grinder does, and when Jezzails die they really want to run from BS with that 4 Bravery. After playing as and against Fyreslayers 10 times this past year and late last year I can safely say that 9-12 Jezzails are a huge threat at all times and teleporting them around hasn't really been needed against FS. Their heroes are huge lynchpins and even 9 could easily take out 1-2 of those heroes a turn.. unless they're running the double battalion list where they're stacking +1's to save and have 30 wounds worth of Auric to pass off wounds to.
  18. Gwendar
    If you have Tabletop Simulator you can message me and I can invite you to some discord groups. I definitely wouldn't mind playing Tzeentch or Fyreslayers against you to help out.
  19. Gwendar
    I don't think he's always an auto-include or anything, but the utility he brings for his cost is great and getting 2 spells helps in an army that wants more spells to go off. Being able to just shut off a unit for a turn is incredible (which, by the way he doesn't need to be alive for based on the wording). One thing I think generally works out well is to Enfeeble a melee unit and charge him into the corner of said unit. That 4+ ethereal save will keep a unit tied to him (especially in hosts duplicitous where they can't retreat) for at least 1-2 turns if they can only get a couple models worth of attacks into him at a time. I wouldn't do this against HGB or anything.. but against a lot of units and it isn't a bad tactic if you absolutely need to tie something up. Barring that I mean.. yeah, 2 casts, a unit shutdown and somewhat resilient hero for hero-based battleplans makes him worth it to me. I can't say I've ever seen it in a Changehost list, but worth a shot.
  20. Gwendar
    what a lazy paintjob, I certainly wouldn't play against you Aside from being reminded of that absolute tool.. talking about tactics; I would honestly get yourself a 9" measurement gauge (just to make it more accurate\easier than your tape measurer) and always be sure to premeasure the hell out of everything capable of teleporting, run + charge, Bridge\teleport with +'s to charge, Bridge\teleport + range on shooting... etc etc. No competitive opponent should ever care to tell you the threat range of anything in their army as it's an important part of tournament play.. if they do they're being "that guy" and you just need to open your Warhammer app to look yourself and waste their time for wasting yours. Everyone should be "playing with intent" meaning that if you premeasure at any point in the game and say something along the lines of "the intent with this unit is that you won't be able to reach them this turn, correct?" that way there's no gotcha moments; see "that guy" above if that happens anyway. Playing against Seraphon and some BoC so much in the past has made me ultra aware of deepstriking and Clanrats are wonderful at being strung out to negate it, even while still pushing up the board in units of 40. Skreech is right that the current heavy shooting meta we're in right now doesn't particularly favor us.. hence why I think it's become necessary to use a Grinder team with my 6 Fiends. This is compounded by the fact these types of armies are also going to beat us on drops every time. Even then, the best thing you can do is understand threat ranges and take a quick minute to premeasure everything to ensure nothing can hit you T1. If you go up against 60 Vanari Sentinels like I did last night playing Tzeentch, good luck to you. 30" range that doesn't require line of sight and will throw out 6-10 MW's at that range per unit of 20 is.. not an enjoyable experience 🙃
  21. Gwendar
    Not so mention it allows us to do the same thing that's being done to us; deepstrike 1-2 hard-hitting units in range to blast a couple things off the table and then hope you get turn priority. I'm still very keen on trying 12 Fiends; 1 unit with a Grinder and another unit with a Bridge... may try that tonight 🤔 I'm incredibly curious to see how the next couple books look, especially Gargants. With them being alliable into any other army they may really shake things up depending how those rules end up. Having some rules writers be very fluffy (partially our case imo) and others writing insane things that border on me wondering if things were actually play-tested like they said they were means it's pretty unpredictable. Vampires\Soulblight appear to be on the horizon along with Shadow Elves (our first brand new chaos army, if I had to guess) but plenty of other armies are now starting to have aged books (BoC, DoK, Nurgle, LoN, etc) so I kind of think we may get 3rd edition in 2021.
  22. Gwendar
    I've used them previously to zone out things like KO, CoS and Changehost like you're describing and yeah, they work pretty well. I just had trouble fitting 10-20 into lists and still have 80+ Clanrats on the board with my other 2-3 threats. I feel that 80 is still too steep for them but if your local meta has lots of alpha striking, I 100% think it's worth finding somewhere to fit them in. That all said, I still find that things like KO are still going to be able to kill important units with their long ranges. For me, I'm looking more at taking 1-2 Grinders instead to keep my own threats off the board... and they cost the same.
  23. Gwendar
    I definitely don't think it's a bad choice, but with only 1 cast available to him I would much rather use Arcane Suggestion or Wind of Chaos compared to getting him into combat with Infusion where even then he isn't the best thing out there. If I lose him I lose my RR aura and I would rather have The Blue Scribes casting Tzeentch's Firestorm and being my mobile summoning platform away from other hero's.
  24. Gwendar
    Which is precisely what I did with this list and it's all now on order 😅 I have no interest in running a Changehost+Flamers setup (although using Soulscream Bridge in that combination is pretty incredible and I recommend people try it if they haven't) after doing it myself and being on the receiving end.. so I just wanted to experiment with some other stuff. I wanted to run this as Guild of Summoners, but getting the free re-rolls from the General on top of summoned Horrors coming back and keeping things from retreating is far better in my eyes than summoning more chickens for them to do stuff the following turn. Plus I don't need to buy and paint 2 LoC's.
  25. Gwendar
    I have no further comment on the ineffectiveness of our greater daemons 🙃 Yeah, I'll give it another shot for sure, I definitely fubar'd the first 2 games and the third just had a massive wrench thrown in with that Warpseer getting summoned T1 to start blasting Jezzails. When they did get to fire though, they were easily deleting 2 units a turn and if I split fire they would've been able to get 3 potentially. They were often rolling between 6-10 MW's for each unit of 12. I've updated the list to drop 3 Jezzails and 20 Clanrats in order to bring a Bell to avoid this situation in the future on top of having another hero for certain battleplans. Still, compared to Fiends + -insert melee threat here- + Jezzails type lists... I still think it's a bit memey. Especially if said "normal" list has a Warpginder and good Gnawhole placement like what happened in my 2nd game.
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