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Gwendar

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  1. Gwendar
    I still like Jezzails, but have been really moving towards double WLC. Or a significant points reduction to 60-70 per unit rather than 100. I think at that value they would be integrated a lot more with warscroll changes.. of course I feel the same about Stormvermin really needing to get around the 320-360 range. But yeah, I really enjoy the HPA as an alternative to Monks. It does really well against blocks of hordes as you can fit an awful lot of bases into that 3" range to do MW's. It just doesn't stick around and the random movement can obviously be a downfall during a time you really need it. Having 2 just ups that reliability factor.. but of course at that point, you would probably be better off getting 40 Monks for less than 2 HPA's. Hard to say, but worth trying 😉 On another note, I have a game Sunday after way too long and it's against Seraphon... so I'm sure it'll go great, but we're both pretty rusty. I'll be sure to update you all with a batrep after all this time 😅
  2. Gwendar
    Well, which list are we talking about improving on because I've ran quite a few over the years 😅 not to mention I haven't been able to really play much since the pandemic started (so around middle\end of March) and the meta has changed quite a bit since I did those batreps. We've all thrown around ideas for Moulder. Personally I don't find them worth their points as they stand and I feel the only decent things are Hellpits (when ran with 2, 1 has been dropped from my lists altogether) or units of 6+ Rat Ogres.. but the math on them doesn't really justify what they cost at 100 per 2.
  3. Gwendar
    Thrice-fold will be a ton of fun for you I'm sure.. I've played against it at least 4 times with FeC, Skaven and OBR and always struggled a bit no matter my composition; killing those guys can be difficult but all in all that's generally the biggest threats in the list. Depending what the Orruk player brings could make things different as well but regardless you better hope he doesn't get a double turn as he'll likely eat through the Clanrats in 1 turn. Either way I think you should be able to do reasonably okay; the GUO's will be harder to take down with the healing combined with their inherent defensiveness. Jezzails can dent it, but won't 1 shot them unless you have god-tier rolls and they fail all their saves. It'll likely need whittling down first but you shouldn've have much of an issue with buffed Vermin\Monks murdering them. I've always been big on shooting>melee but I also tend to play quite retroactively which can be good against Orruks by taking a charge, hoping they don't get a double and then blasting them off the board next turn. Against Nurgle it generally works out better to be more aggressive, which you have with this. Would love to hear how it goes for you, planning to get back into games in the next couple of weeks or so. Would definitely drop 1 and would be more inclined with 2 or 3. I'm fine combining Fiends and Acolytes despite the fact they both want MMMWP. If just one of them gets MMMWP while the other gets Deranged Inventor then it isn't too bad overall (note the following has the Acolytes at 20 models and Fiends with just the shooting attacks from Ratlings + Windlaunchers) and could be used: Of course... if you fail MMMWP and only get 1 of these Deranged Inventor then the other really suffers; in that scenario I would probably give Fiends Deranged as the Acolytes can do better without buffs, especially when shooting at something with 10+ models.. but obviously this will come down to each units positioning and who can make better use of it. For list 3, I'm not huge on running a Furnace for just 40 Monks; they generally do well enough on their own and those points could be put elsewhere like another WLC and Clanrats. I will add that throwing in another 5-10 Acolytes isn't a terrible idea either just to have a buffer against them hurting themselves. For every 5 Acolytes, you tend to lose ~5-7 damage on average.
  4. Gwendar
    I mean I'll be honest, I completely forgot there were 2 separate rulings for normal\faction terrain.. but this whole time I've always kept them more than 3" away anyway; go figure. Must have been one of those deeply ingrained memory\rules that I never even remembered reading... anyway. I was looking for what I snipped because I remembered everyone losing their minds at first by the rules quite clearly not allowing use of our Gnawholes 😅 Also yes, shift that blame around, you're fitting the mold just fine.
  5. Gwendar
    Here's the snip from the GHB 2019 errata in case any local people ask 😉. It's actually 6" from other terrain and 1" from objectives.. unless of course it's been updated further and buried in some other random FAQ since GW has a problem with this sometimes but I digress:
  6. Gwendar
    As @GrimDork said, this list would be illegal for reasons pointed out. As for your games.. yeah, I mean Eshin isn't in the best place but pure Eshin can be okay; nothing top tier of course. Obviously, if you start adding in Skryre and other things, you will lose your Gutter\Night Runner battleline and would have to include 3x20 Clanrats at a minimum to have a legal list with 3 Battleline. I know that many of us run 1-2 Eshin units (usually 1-2x10 Night Runners for zoning out deepstrikes or 10-20 Gutter Runners for a cheap backline threat) in our standard tournament lists that usually consist of mostly Skryre, buffing heroes for them and Clanrats.. sometimes the occasional 40 Stormvermin or 40 Plaguemonks. Worth noting that you may get more responses if you post in the overall Skaventide thread rather than one of the specific Clan ones, just for future reference 😉
  7. Gwendar
    I like the idea, however I don't think the Deathmaster is worth it for his points right now. That isn't the type of the thing I would just "sacrifice" and would be much more inclined to bring even the WLV. I've yet to have anyone place a fragile hero by themselves to guard a Gnawhole; especially when 90% of heroes like that need to be up near the action for buffs they provide. 20 Gutter Runners on their own have a decent shot at killing stuff without the need for another 100 point hero that isn't on the board until they're in combat. If he goes down to 60-80 points, then sure, I could see that being picked up a bit more. The key is in the wording; "At the start of your movement phase, you can use 1 Gnawhole to transport 1 friendly Skaventide unit". 1. Their is no wording present to suggest each Gnawhole can only be used once per game and never again; it's just saying you can only use 1 per your movement phase. If you use Gnawhole A to transport a unit to Gnawhole B, on your next movement phase you can do the exact same thing or vice-versa. 2. No, you could not use a "Gnawbomb" Gnawhole as well as a regular Gnawhole in the same turn as the Gnawbomb one still counts as a Gnawhole and you can only use 1 per movement phase. 3. This happens in the movement phase, not hero phase... just wanted to clarify 😉
  8. Gwendar
    You aren't wrong. The handful of time's I've played against Nurgle (2 of which were Thricefold) the GUO's were the real threat and need to be taken care of. Those 30 Plaguebearers will just sit on an objective and aiming everything at them should do well enough to clear them.. aside from that though he doesn't seem to have a ton of other board presence for objectives.
  9. Gwendar
    Honestly at 1k, I don't think there is much that any combat focused army can do about Legion just summoning in Pinks every turn. Even shooting oriented ones can have trouble with it. Another potential solution to Horrors that I see would be to make it so you only get 10 Blues rather than 20, cutting total wounds down to 30. I've been really curious about running a big unit (say 9 to ensure you get d3 MW impact hits for longer) of Bloodcrushers in place of the typical K'Daai that many run. You'd have a large blob of 36 wounds on a 4+ this way that can do reasonable damage on the charge. That said, 2 Exalted Chariots are the same price, and while they have less wounds they have the potential to put out more MW's. Of course, this is when I start going back to Skarbrand who can easily just throw out 8-16 MW's every turn. Been thinking a lot about the Epitome myself recently.. though I don't personally want to replace it with my Corrupter. Having it around along with the Mesmerizing Mirror seems like it could work exceptionally well in a casting based list, which is what I've been planning:
  10. Gwendar
    Yeah, kind of what I was worried about. I think the value in them isn't killing potential, but that combined with their staying power with the 5+ ethereal on top of the 5\6++ FNP. At this stage I'm really just waiting out for the GHB for increases before investing into it.. so lots of theorycrafting for now and always curious to see how games are going for others.
  11. Gwendar
    Only 1 thing can go through a Gnawhole at a time: "At the start of your movement phase, you can use 1 Gnawhole to transport 1 friendly Skaventide unit"
  12. Gwendar
    @Blisterfeet I feel like Slaanesh hurts the most from it's allegiance abilities due to losing exploding hits and AFL.. outside of that though, yeah I feel everything fits in well. I like the idea of running a KoS but I'm not sure how well it would do compared to bringing along Flamers or K'Daai. How did the BT do for you? I've been considering Skarbrand a lot, although I think running a large unit of Flamers + Exalted or K'Daai would work out better in terms of damage a lot of the time. Rotigus was in a few lists as well but.. really that was due to the board wide spell; he wasn't bringing much to the table aside from that.
  13. Gwendar
    I like it and have planned on doing something similar.. but I feel the Fearfold Blade would be better here since it doesn't discriminate against Heroes\Behemoths if I recall?
  14. Gwendar
    I would honestly like to see it get something similar\the same as the Tenebrael Shards abilities: on a 4+ (or maybe 2-3+) remove and setup within 3" of an enemy and it gets +1 to hit for the rest of the turn. Having the 8" move to get out of combat (and behind some Clanrat screens) if you slay a model works out well too. Of course you would see a very sharp rise in the use of SoJ but I still think within reason. Everyone uses the Corruptor for this type of role because of the 10 attacks and extra MW's on top of being able to RR all hits; the Deathmaster doesn't have any of that going for him would be an ever looming, low cost threat.
  15. Gwendar
    I feel Clanrats have a bit of an identity crisis in that regard. They want to be used as chaff that can stick around at least 2 turns but when so many units can easily put out 30+ damage in 1 turn it's just not possible.. especially when it comes to alpha strike shooting armies that you largely can't outrange unless you get lucky rolls with Night Runners. Even then I feel you'll be playing at a disadvantage with deployment or they have an opportunity to get a double and it's all for nothing. Having 60 as an option would definitely help with this, but I feel the only reasonable way to play them currently is to ensure they charge a unit to tag it and minimize pile-ins. Even then, I've had 5-6 HGB get in range (anything with 2"-3" range this works out less against) and kill 15 Clanrats.. the double pile in meant he ended up killing the whole unit for the most part, even with only 1/4 of his unit getting in. Of course, then there's shooting armies, who can shoot you at full strength regardless.
  16. Gwendar
    I don't think I can add much to what I want to see come down.. I feel we have had a lot of reactionary nerfs over the months which may be a reason they've been so keen to keep Stormvermin priced so high. I feel like a lot of things were "kept safe" and points were never looked at so as to not cause some of us to take a couple of podium placements at tournaments 😅.. a main culprit of that to me is obviously Stormvermin and Rat Ogres. I mean, people are still calling for the WLV to have never been created, when I don't really see it as being much more powerful than plenty other things knocking around.. and the CV is still difficult to cope with unless Thanquol is casting it. The range being what it was I agreed was far too strong, but I feel with it being halved it's still priced correctly at 100 points.. if you lower that anymore I think you will find a lot of people crying out; especially with it being used by other armies more and more. If anything on that warscroll changes for the worse, that's when you need to start lowering the cost. I'll just agree with most of what @Skreech Verminking has said but I have a feeling we won't see Stormvermin go down that low, as much as I would like for that to be the case. At the same time, they do have a habit of making some drastic points changes and it could be a "way to sell more Stormvermin models".. I think I'm just soured by how they've stayed so high for so long. The bottom line is that points decreases would be great for things like Rat Ogres and they would be taken far more often... but for a large majority of our units that wouldn't be enough and they're really just in need of warscroll re-writes which I doubt we'll get for the foreseeable future.
  17. Gwendar
    I imagine they will as I see the HGB going up at the same time. At the very least losing their horde discount at 20 or lowering the amount of the discount.. seems to be a popular opinion floating around at least.
  18. Gwendar
    Podcast with @bitchparty: https://notoriousaos.podbean.com/e/notorious-aos-episode-28-skaven-ft-mitchmp3/ AoS Coach video with Dan:
  19. Gwendar
    @Skreech Verminking You're insane, but I guess that's a good quality here. In other news, you all wanted something different? Here's something: Backline threats with GR's, fast shooting\MW threats from 2 Doomwheels, a Horde threat with Thanquol and the Warpgnaw can really just hit what he wants of course.. and 140 bodies out front. Ghyrstrike + Malevolent give him a 2+/2+ RR 1's to wound and to hit if you spend a CP. Even against a 2+ save that should net you ~12 damage on a full bracket. I'll be honest, it's a bit more aggressive than what I normally do but.. hey, I think it's time to change things up as we've discussed. Monks are still nice in that they're 280 points worth of average killing power when it comes to hitting 4-6+ saves and they don't need anything like MMMWP or a CP to do what they do. Having so little shooting is giving me anxiety but.. I think this is worth 5-10 practice games.
  20. Gwendar
    Nah man, I want everyone to experiment, write up reports and post them.. I love seeing what works for people and what doesn't. I play a certain way (reactively) so inherently some stuff I just don't like to do.. like aggressively being in a potentially compromised spot. That isn't to say it's a bad idea by any means.. just giving my 2 cents 😉. Even if you're insane 240 Clanrat lists work, you can bet you'll never catch me moving, painting or transporting that many. Ever... like, ever. As for Stormvermin.. I'll be cautiously optimistic. I can't really predict GW's design\points decisions but I have 40 on order regardless.
  21. Gwendar
    Sure, that's an option as well.. Just saying Nightrunners are a bit more reliable to get there and stand in front of the Jezzails. My opponents do too, but in most battleplans placing those Gnawholes will net you a gigantic chunk of the board.. and if they decide to turtle themselves into 1 little section then they're already at a disadvantage. I think the worry is that to get them positioned against someone hiding then you would be out of range of -insert BS immunity ability here- and suddenly losing 3 Jezzails could turn into losing nearly all of them in 1 go. I just don't find it worth the risk when Gnawholes tend to work well enough in most cases (though I know you're also talking specifically about keeping them hidden from things like KO ships shooting them off the table). Jezzails for me are something that do work over time; not something I find needs to be within an alpha strike like the Longstrike's, AKA better Jezzails can do. Not saying it's a bad idea or anything, I just worry about losing all 1/4th of my list if something goes wrong\they get put in range of their guns. Of course, if you skitterleap a hero to be near them (or can throw out a Bell\Warpseer and his immense range) then you mitigate this.
  22. Gwendar
    Yeah, they definitely made me get out of some habits I was stuck in, though I don't 100% agree with everything. It definitely sparked me to grab a Warpgnaw to try out as well as fitting Thanquol into more lists... he alone would be a direct counter to these 20 man HGB units which shores up that matchup. I was big on maxed Gutter Runner units at release, but quickly stopped after they didn't do much for me for 2 games; back then I gave up a lot easier if a tactic didn't work immediately 😅. I'm definitely all in with you all about finding an anti-meta and looking into different options.. for example I'm big on WLC's now over Jezzails, however running 2 Doomwheels also has about the same chance to kill those support hero's due to the MW output from running something over + charging as well as the pretty decent shots; all for 160 points. If they die, oh well, as long as they got their job done. I've been throwing something together with Gutter Runners and Doomwheels combined with a frontline threat (or 2) to split focus and I'm really into it... may even spark me into trying TTS so I can test it. There just isn't really any point in bringing MSU units with Skaven due to Overwhelming Mass (and Strength in Number to a lesser extent.. generally you have BS immunity somewhere) and combing that with cheap units like Monks is pretty much necessary. Of course, things like Night Runners, Clanrats and Gutter Runners could be used MSU, It's just that they would have a different role. Have you been teleporting them through Gnawholes? I find that 90% of the time when I put my Gnawholes on the middle-ish sides of the table that they're in range and visibility of whatever they need to shoot. It's a reason to use Night Runners as well to give them a screen if you intend to do that T1.
  23. Gwendar
    Well hey, I've always disliked Moulder and was always far more into Eshin and Skryre.. so my bias is of course coming into play 😉 But nah, you're definitely right with it going to back to what @Skreech Verminking was saying. Just for someone like me, it's hard to look past point values and optimum setups is all I guess... I have a handful of experienced tournament players around here who know what my army can do and introducing Ogres into the mix in place of Fiends would tell them they're as much a threat. That would work out alright if I could fill the list with other, more threatening things.. but like I said, a lot of our stuff is over-costed, quite frankly.
  24. Gwendar
    I don't disagree that they can't be made decent but I still believe they are grossly overcosted by comparison. Take a max unit of 8 for example: 4 of them get to shoot and lets say all 8 make it into combat due to the smaller bases.. this is also assuming they have +1 to hit from the MM so total cost of this is 500 points (or 460 if you just want Packmasters and not have the 5+ resummon ability). They're doing significantly less than a unit of 6 fully buffed and "half buffed" (meaning no MMMWP) Fiends. For 120 more points, 6 Fiends will get you 38 wounds on a 4+ save that is a threat at range and in melee. They don't get the possibility of returning on a 5+, but that isn't something I want to rely on anyway, but that's just me personally. Even without any buffs, the Fiends still pull about the same and that's with only 4 of them being in combat rather than all 6 due to the larger bases (so, 2 Clubbing Blows and 2 Shock Gauntlets). So, 8 Ogres + MM = 500 points, while 6 Fiends + Engineer = 620 for a rather substantial difference. Even if the Engineer gets killed, 6 Fiends are 20 points more to do about the same with better stats. Again, no return on a 5+ and "worse bravery".. but I find that I tend to always keep CP's spare when it comes to playing Skaven to ensure nothing is running.. or I have the Bell. Now.. that all said, if you do run the Rabid Crown, you can bump them up significantly (~32 damage vs 4+) and it wouldn't be much farther off than needing to have an Engineer with Vigordust and a Spark. I dunno.. I'm not saying they're bad. The issue with Skaven is that we have so many things that are far better in Skryre than we do anywhere else and that really is a problem.
  25. Gwendar
    No no, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.. honestly it's nice to see something different than what we're used to. It's always best to think anti meta and what can counter that. It's just difficult when many things (like Seraphon, HH, Tzeentch) can blast things like the Acolytes off the table before they can really act. Having 120 Clanrats will certainly keep you up on the objective game which is obviously how this game is won after all... master them and many people will underestimate what they can do. At the same time, quite a lot of units can crash into them and wipe them. I think it will depend on who gets the double turn but I mean.. that's largely my biggest issue with the game anyway; not overly strong units that can 1-shot other units.
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