Malakree

Yeah, I was finding that I couldn't reliably alphastrike and a lot of the time I'm fishing for a turn 2 engage anyway. Big reason I want bloodtoofs is for the Bravery, I hate Bravery 6 so much...

For me the 1 drop is one of the big advantages and would rather have it than not. Having tried the fungoid he just feels worse. Even with his reroll you still don't have the +cast that makes the weirdnob so strong, more importantly the weirdnob can easily overpower other wizards, he's on the level of Archan in terms of raw +cast/unbind. Equally I think the cogs are perhaps to expensive for what they do and to risky. While I love the +charge I've found they backfire as often as they benefit me so this list is me trying without the cogs Equally I've wanted to play with the Emerald Lifeswarm/Aethervoid pendulum for a while, so again I want to try them out. If I was going to drop something it would be a straight swap of lifeswarm for cogs. Since I had 40 points left over I went for The Burning Head, in terms of MW output it's actually really solid, d3 to everything it passes over or ends within 1" of! Plus the RR1's aura seems like it could be very useful, consider the number of armies we face who just have RR1's to hit anyway and think of all those 1s the MK swings. I don't have the 3rd unit of brutes so it's not a change I can make. I've thought about it, I just worry about the number of models dropped and I use the Ardboys as my first wave, they pin the opponents and the centre of my line. With 3 shields and 7 big choppas they are pretty tanky and can actually put out some srs hurt, get up to 5+ attacks and suddenly they are throwing 49 attacks at 4+/3+/-1/1. Generally find that by the time the MK goes down the game is over, I play pretty conservative with him until I fully commit. I find the 10" Waaagh! to be way less useful because you often aren't hitting the entire line. That's the reason I have him with Ironclad/Mirrored Cuirass in order to tank up, hopefully with Emerald Lifeswarm and Mystic Shield (from the 2nd wizard) I should be able to keep him up. So yeah quite a bit of this is testing out some different things, No 2nd WC for example is a huge shift for me.

Wishful thinking from the destruction community. So I've got a small tournament later this month and I'm taking this list. If it goes well I'm going to take it to blood and glory aswell. Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Ironclad - Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)- Artefact: The Boss Skewer Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Battleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsIronfist (180)Bloodtoofs (120)Endless SpellsAethervoid Pendulum (40)Emerald Lifeswarm (60)The Burning Head (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 2Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 112 What do people think? Edit: Are there any other hysh relics instead the boss skewer?

I like that generic destruction seems to do better than ironjawz. The that's the direction I've been feeling. We are just a bit to limited and putting 180 grots on the field is vicious.

With that particular list I think you care less about it. The idea is to throw the 2MK and 1GG forward in order to mess stuff up, then have the Ardboy wave go in turn 2 while the MK's back up and reposition. From that point on you pin with the Ardboys and force your opponent to kill them off before you bring them back with the Ardfist. I agree it's nice I'm just not sure I'd ever want to give up all the bonuses we get for having a MK be our general.

I've got it as moonclan shaman but I meant fungoid haha. Primarily I see the issue being that the fungoid is going to be way slower and several turns late. Plus you want to be spending your cps in waaaghs, failed charges and run rolls. Your also losing the 4+ rampaging which is pretty huge when it's going to get dropped on an mk for 12" of movement. Overall the fungoid is cool but to niche for IJ.

@broche Something like this maybe? Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: ChamonLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Ironclad - Artefact: Gildenbane Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- Artefact: Rune Blade Orruk Warchanter (80)Moonclan Grot Shaman (80)Battleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsArdfist (170)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 133 Essentially going for target saturation. The artefact choice is a little strange but so many people are running Ethereal amulet etc. As an example it turns off The Oaken Armour which is often run on treelords. Doppelganger cloak and Quicksilver potion are another two options which we really hate. On the other hand the -3 Rend weapon for the MB Choppa makes that far more reliable for getting through those super hard targets which we struggle to deal with.

No. It still counts as a retreat move. You can however make a charge with the Ironjawz Allegiance ability after retreating. On topic. Personally I think that if we are going to create a top tier list it will be something like this. It's low on wounds but has good mobility. The weirdnob lets you put Mystic Shield on the MK, which is super important imo, and lets you throw out the occasional Foot of Gork to try and swing really horrific games (sometimes it just wins you games). With the look out sir the amount of shooting armies has actually seriously declined which means people have stripped down their hate for it. Ironically this makes the Spear Chukkas probably one of the best sniping tools in the game at the moment. Against a 3+ save this is solid and the 36" range means that our opponents can't just sit back forcing us to come to them. There is also a bunch of armies at the moment which heavily rely on having key support heroes alive, the entire death list, for example, falls apart if it doesn't have deathless minions active. How many armies are packing a bunch of squishy wizards, and even if they don't have them it lets us chunk the big monsters before we need to fight them. For the rest of the list, I think bloodtoofs is mandatory for me. It fixes the, frankly horrific, bravery issues we suffer while giving us the extra charge/run range, command points and artefact.

Low rend, low mw output, relatively expensive, relatively weak saves (compared to sequiturs at 4+ with RRs and defensive buffs in faction), no ranged potential, no defence against MW, very slow even with our battalions. Low bravery. Ironjawz essentially suffer from being an un-updated wave 1 army. Compare this to something like DoK and it quickly becomes apparent where all our weaknesses are. We are top of T1, that means we are strong and can place on top tables but need a lot of luck to do so. The T0 armies all have things which let them ignore some or a lot of the rules and our only example of this is SnB which can be broken by one gap in the daisy chain. We play it because we love the army. Its not weak but it isn't going to be taking table 1 at a 100 person tournament without extreme levels of luck (20+ mw foot of Gork style)

Yes to both questions. You will struggle to really abuse it at 1k but at 2k it can be super filthy. My current record is +13 attacks with every weapon across my whole army.

This is what running is for Srsly though if you want more speed add an extra unit of GG's.

No a battalion isn't worth it at 1k. We are quite an elite army and you will struggle to put wounds on the board with a battalion. As a comparison bloodtoofs at 2k is considered at the very top end of what you can put into battalions and that would only be 150 points at 1k. The only battalion I would consider worth it is the ardfist, that's because your opponent is going to be lower on snipping abilities AND the artist functionally doubles how many wounds the ardboys have. Very few armies can go through 3x10 ardboys twice at 1k. Edit: Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: GhurLeadersOrruk Warchanter (80)- General- Trait: Ironclad - Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: The Boss Skewer Battleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)BattalionsArdfist (170)Total: 970 / 1000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 200Wounds: 92 For example puts 80 wounds of ardboys on the board then let's you bring them back. That's a potential 160wounds with a 4+ save, something which is hard to shift at 2k.

So basically the aetherquartz broach is used to stack multiple waaagh for the extra attacks. Prophet of the Waaagh! Allows you to reroll any of the dice at the start of the combat phase. The more Waaagh! You get off the broach the more dice to reroll fishing for 6s And the extra attack that comes with them. Both are maximising your extra attacks. For example. Say you spend 3cps. On average you will get 4 waaagh! Running from 3cps. At the start of the combat phase you roll 4 dice. There's a 5/6 chance each dice won't roll a 6 (thus trigger 2 attacks not 1) on 4 dice is 48% with one 6 (5attacks) at 38% meaning you have about an 85% chance to get 5 or less attacks. As prophet of the waaagh lets you reroll the dice then you can reroll any none 6s to try and get them. This reduces the chance of getting no 6s to 23%. I'd do the 5 or 6 attack calculation but I'm under the weather atm and my brain isn't working. Needless to say the more Waaagh! You have running the higher your chance of pulling at least one extra attack off prophet is. Since we are focused around explosive turns, both high extra attacks plus smashing and bashing, maximising those explosive turns is very strong. This is especially true once you consider the low wounds a bloodtoofs puts on the board purely because we put 300 points into battalions. That's the reasoning behind it at least.

I would personally expect darkoath to focus specifically on the mortal aspect of chaos. You have beasts covering the bestial side, demons work much better in an God specific book given how intimately tied they are to specific gods. That leaves the mortal aspect a bit in the lurch, a book which featured everchosen, marauders, chaos warriors, undivided, armies featuring multiple gods and the mortal ascension demons would round out the chaos updates without stopping them updating something like slaanesh.

@LLV any guesses at a destruction update LoN style. Getting annoyed that a human with a greatsword has the same rend as a Mawkrusha...

Spend some of those points on making 2 units of 6. You double the effectiveness of each waaagh! On the unit if you have 6 not 3.

I go with aetherquartz broach on a wc and mirrored curiass. Its only a 5++ mw but it's in hysh and has the 6++ mw reflect. Not quite as tanky but imo the broach is to filthy to pass up.

So something like this It could work fine. The big thing the cogs are there for is to make up for the slow as hell move speed we suffer, since your slow stuff is only 3 units of brutes it should be fine. Another alternative, which would drop painting if you don't already have a realmgate done, is to go for an Ironsunz list, either a straight swap or To me the biggest boon of the Bloodtoofs is the +2 to bravery, this gets round this by just running GG's instead and you net the potential -1 to hit on the first round. Even with your 3 units of Brutes the Ironsunz are a reasonable choice, they just lack the flare that the Bloodtoofs bring. Again, depends on what you have painted and what you want to paint. If it was me I'd go with the first list (3 Brutes) and then leave the realmgate to last, you can just change megabattalion if you don't get it done. Also, to echo @Lanoss I'm also coming to the conclusion cogs might be a bit much for what they do. They are definitely awesome but we aren't properly alphastriking and the delayed turn 2 engage just gives us an extra Waaaagh!

They don't. Most of us are using ironfist, chronomatic cogs and bloodtoofs to try and bridge the gap. +4 charge army wide makes the long distance charges much more reliable. WAAAGH!

I also spotted Garrosh, love it! If you have any specific questions ask away and we'll see what we can do. Generally we revolve around using the Waaagh! ability to stack up extra attacks on things like the brute klaw/Smasha to try and ruin peoples day.

Not a Grot or Orruk can't use Fugoid on it I don't know if you have this many black orcs but it could be a trollish start to a wizard list!

Our tactic atm is very much based around the aetherquartz broach and huge waaagh! Turns. For those you only really care about the boss/special weapon and with 5+ extra attacks smashing and bashing is easy to trigger. Also remember that against the doppelganger cloak it can be detrimental to take a smashing and bashing proc.

It's the oval it's supplied with.

Not quite as in-depth but I played this list at the local club vs a stormcast. While not super competitive it's a reasonably strong club and he was running his Bobo list. Allegiance: IronjawzMortal Realm: HyshLeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- General- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh! - Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch Orruk Warchanter (80)- Artefact: Lens of Refraction Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)Battleline10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)5 x Orruk Brutes (180)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)BattalionsIronfist (180)Bloodtoofs (120)Endless SpellsChronomantic Cogs (60)Total: 1880 / 2000Extra Command Points: 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 112 Drew knife to the heart which sucks. Played for the double, got a 6 but he matched it at got prio turn 2. Burnt all 6 cp turn 2 on waaagh! For a total of 13 extra attacks. Cabbage on his own fell 2 wounds short of killing a block of 15 sequiturs with rrAll 3+. Then the next turn pulled 4 attacks off 1 cp. The broach+prophet is filth. It came down to kp in the end and I took the minor but on any other battleplans I clean him hard.

Battalions are to expensive at 1k. They are fine for 1.5k but before that it costs us to much in raw power on the field.