Chumphammer

Its kinda an interesting thing in my local meta that noone was used to fighting DOK till I started playing them. Even at a local 40 player event I was the only DOK. I also noticed that DOK are dropping in tournaments now. Since LGT on Sept 14th, DOK have had only 3 top 3 places, and 2 were 3rd. (Graywater and myself) When I faced people here, they woefully underestimated how much damage output the army can throw out And yeah, I find people do not think ahead with their movement, or they rush. Or they have 1 plan they try to stick to but that doesnt work vs every army and that option can completely change on a bad dice roll and they dont adapt.

Do they study much? I don't necessarily mean watch online games, but I find a lot of my play ability comes from knowing my what opponents army can do.

Warlord: "What is best in life?" Conan: "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women." I think you are being too easy on them! Being easy on them wont help them to improve their gaming ability. Walk through your games and lists after the games, tell them what they did well and not well. Help tweek their lists and teach them target priority. I have a load of people that are "easy games" in my meta, but I play them often and then we chat for about 30mins-1hr after about their lists, what they were trying to do and where it goes wrong. Then I help tweek their lists and they are getting better. I would rather raise the level of my "scene" than play to a lesser ability, then get stomped at a big tournament

Graywater pretty much covered it. DoK are very very fast and can hit like a truck and if Hag Narr can take a punch too. Just make sure you keep things in your bubbles and dont over commit In other news, made another Gotrek/Morathi list just now, basically based on: 1: Morathi getting in your grill T1 2: 10 BS getting in your Flank/Rear T1 3: HeartRenders able to drop down at anytime 4: Teleporting units everyturn while the enemy has no real army to aim at 5: Gortek Waddles up the board with his WE bubble Morathi (Shroud of despair) Gotrek BloodWrack Medusa (General, Mindrazor, Shadowstone) 10 Blood Sisters 10 Blood Sisters 10 Witch Aelves (daggers) 10 Heart Renders

As a DoK player I am just jealous those listed armies get faction terrain Shooting is a good way to deal with them, as are mortal wounds. I have found Blood Sisters amazing vs OB High bravery, usually 4+/5++ with 2W 3 attacks 3+/3+ -1 1D (though most o the time with Mindrazor for the rend -2) plus with Crystal touch make them really useful in that fight (well most fights really bar Slaanesh)

I have played against them twice now and I would not say they are overpowered. Tough, ****** yeah, but not OP I think people get thrown up by how tanky and grinding the battleline can be. 1: Arkhan/Katakros healing is really good, especially combined with Mortek guard and ability. But once they are dead the troops get whittled down 2 Mortek guard are susceptible vs shooting, as the reroll shield ability is only in close combat 3: They are not a fast moving army, unless they take the legion that can run and charge...but then they are not taking Pentifx elite (which is whats making them so tanky) 4: Mortal wounds are your friend vs Mortek guard 5: Engage multiple units. Remember their "relentless discipline points" are for both players turns. So if they are burning through their RD to give rend and reroll saves on mulitple units they will run out.

Faced against Ossiarch Bonereapers against last night. We placed shifting objectives He had: Petrifex Elite Arkhan the Black Arcane command, empower nadirite weapon, Protection of nagash, reinforce battle-shields, drain mortality, mortal contract Katakros (Big leader guy) Mortisan Soulreaper – General Mighty Archaeossian Godbone Armour Protection of Nagash 3 x 10 Mortek Guard Mortek Crawler Immortis Guard The burning head Balewind Vortex Purple sun of Shyish Umbral Spellportal Main Obj Right flank OB turn 1: He went first, moving up to catch all objectives while moving the bulk forces into the middle. Magic saw a spell portal and purple sun get dumped in front of my Witch Aelves (WE) and Sisters of Slaughter (sos). Shooting saw the crawler take 4 wounds off the Cauldron. DOK Turn 1: Witch brew went on SOS and Blood sisters (BS). I failed to cast Mindrazor (double 1, rolled to a 5) and Doom bolt (double 1…). I changed dice, and got 11 to cast Dais and then 7 to cast Comet but it was dispelled with Arkhans +2 to dispel. Movement saw me pull the BS, cauldron, Medusa and SOS to the left and the warlocks, incantors and WE to the right. Shooting saw the warlocks get 1 wound on Arkhan and everything else was out of range Charging managed to get the warlocks into the flank of Arkhan (a mistake really), witch Aelves into the Mortek guard on the right. The snakes also went up the middle into the Immortis and clipping both units of Mortek guard. In middle/Right Combat saw me lose 3 Witch Aelves, 3 Warlocks and 2 snakes, but took out half of both units of Morteks and the immortis out completely. DOK cap 4 pts. Main Obj stayed on right flank and I won the roll off. Purple sun rolls high and clips the SOS, killing 5. DoK Turn 2: Mindrazor goes off onto the Snakes, comet goes off on the back field hitting most his army for 3MW, but he managed to do death saves on 2 wounds for both unit of Mortek guard and the Soulreaper. Catachism goes off on the snakes, and I put blessing on the cauldron (though snakes woulda been better with what came next) rune of khaine goes off on the hag and the cauldron woke up. I put Mystic shield on the dais incantor from the warlocks and the 2nd incantor dispelled Purple Sun. Moving up, I pull the WE out of combat and onto the Obj, and the Warlocks out to the right board edge. Shooting saw the cauldron kill 1 mortek guard, and the warlocks fail to wound Arkhan. Combat, the cauldron failed to charge the Mortek to the left of the snakes, but the SOS got into the Mortek on the right, with the Dais Incantor and Hag joining them. Snakes went 1st, piling into Katakros and the remaining center Mortek. They wiped out the Mortek and did took Katakros down to 5 wounds. He hit back with Arkhan, failing to wound the knight incantor. My SOS only managed to kill 1 Mortek (soooo tanky) for the cost of 3 of them back. Hag and Incantor did 3 wounds to arkhan. Katakros though, now in combat mode, killed 5 snakes, and that was me rolling well. Dok cap 4 pts. OB Turn 2: He cast predator but I shut down the rest of his magic with auto dispels bar Balewind vortek on the Soulreaper. His healing got 6 wounds back on Katakros, fully heal Arkhan and bring back 6 Mortek on the right unit Shooting saw him use the special shot on the Medusa (Roll 2d6 and use modifier. If equal to or greater than wounds its dead) and he rolled a 7 (-1 for wounds taken) and my general died. Yuk. Combat saw Katakros only kill 2 snakes now his attacks were reduced, and the snakes took him off. Arkhan targeting and killed the hag (which I shouldn’t have put in combat but oh well) and 5 SOS from the Mortek. SOS only kill 1 mortek again…(facepalm) and the incantor only 1 wound on Arkhan. He caps 1 point Comet isn’t in 5” of anyone Obj moves to middle OB wins the turn OB Turn 3: Predator is recast (since its target was medusa and it was killed, so was dispelled) after my foot incantor. Protection goes on Arkhan and he heals up again/adds more mortek. He moved the far left start to move over the middle, but rolled a 1 to run so didn’t make it far. Shooting sees the catapult hit the snakes but failed to do much. Combat saw Arkhan do 3 wounds on the incantor, and 4 sos killed. I killed 2 Mortrek and fail to wound Arkhan. He caps 1 pt DOK turn 3: I leave comet there, using the warlocks to dispel the predator. Both incantors get dispelled by Arkhan. Blessing and Witch Brew go onto the cauldron. Movement sees the Cauldron move up to the left Mortek, and the snakes move on the crawler. Shooting pips 2 mortek off from the Cauldron. Combat sees the Cauldron take out the left Mortek, and the snakes the crawler. The dias then dies from the spirit hosts who roll 3 mortal wounds… Combat sees 2 sos die for 0 mortek. Cap 4 pts. Obj stays in the center and DOK win the roll. We call it at this point, as he cant cap any points at this time to get enough points. I cap 4 again, with the cauldron and snakes going into whats left of the mortek and Soulreaper. Arkhan may get away this round, but hes then alone and down 16 – 7 on his turn 4. Pictures: [/img] [/img] [/img] So, Things went well (bar some silly moves) but I still felt I was missing the Slaughter queens free attack and just felt the warlocks are Meh for 160pts. I also don’t have anything to drop to threaten areas. SO, I came up with these two tweeks. List 1 is a slight change, adding in 2 units of 5 heart renders for the cost of warlocks and Dais. Still gives me 3 casts/3 dispels. List 2 is bit of a re write of the same format. Giving me only 2 casts and 3 dispels, but gives me an extra prayer and the SQ, as well as 1 unit of heartrenders to drop List 3: Similar, but 1 knight incanter is now shadow warriors for deep strike, and a 2nd blood wrack medusa. Also general now on shrine I think I wanna try list 2 next List 1: Medusa - General, Devoted Disciples, Shadow Stone, Mindrazor Knight Incantor Knight Incantor Hag Queen on Cauldron – Blessing of Khaine Hag Queen – Catechism of Murder 30 Sisters of Slaughter – Shields 10 Witch Aelves – knives 20 Blood sisters 2 x 5 Heartrenders Everblaze Comet List 2: Slaughter Queen – Devoted Disciples, Blessing of khaine Medusa - Shadow Stone, Mindrazor Knight Incantor Hag Queen – Crimson Rejuvenation Hag Queen – Catechism of Murder 30 Sisters of Slaughter – Shields 10 Witch Aelves – knives 10 Witch Aelves – knives 20 Blood sisters 5 Heartrenders Everblaze Comet List 3: Medusa on Bloodshrine - General, Devoted Disciples, Shadow Stone, Mindrazor Knight Incantor Bloodwrack Medusa - withering Hag Queen on Cauldron – Blessing of Khaine Hag Queen – Catechism of Murder 30 Sisters of Slaughter – Shields 10 Witch Aelves – knives 20 Blood sisters 10 shadow warriors Everblaze Comet

But I kinda want the knight incantor and meteor. Its half the reason I made the list rather than just going for normal boring DoK Its for LVO2020, where realm spells are in affect (hence wanting more casters) and not too worried about not having a SlaughterQueen General

Yes yes, DOK dont need support allies But I want to continue to test the list I am testing, and am wondering peoples opinions on selections or any I havent thought of. I am currently running this: (it is 3-0 atm) General: Bloodwrack Medusa, Devoted Disciples, Shadowstone, Mindrazor Hag Queen on Cauldron, Blessing of Khaine Hag Queen, Catechism of Murder Knight incantor 30 Sisters of Slaughter with Bucklers 20 Blood Sisters 10 Witch Aelves (Knives) 5 Doomfire Warlocks (Shroud of despair) Everblaze Comet The last 170points have been 5 more warlocks with Withering for 2 games and 3 Vanuard Raptor longstrikes for 1 game All in all I love the list, bar the last 170pts. I found the 2nd 5 doomfire warlocks to be bit of a waste (mainly as I thought crossbows where 16inch not 10) So tried the raptors for some ranged support, but not 100% sold on them. I want my army to be able to do stuff in every phase. Atm I have 3 spells to cast (mainly MR and Comet) and 3 dispels/ 1 auto Shooting is where I was lacking, hence the raptors. So, ideas I am looking at for 170points are: 1: Stick with 3 Raptors (170pts) Sniping out what the comet wounds 2: 2nd Knight-Incantor with Dais (140+30pts) 2nd Auto dispel. 2+ reroll if on a disk with Mystic shield. Gives me 5 dispels if disc up. 12” flying can help throw him in useful places and gives me another caster for comet 3: 3 Scourgerider chariots (150pts) More shooting support, fast and lots of wounds. Downside is that’s lots of wound to feed slaanesh and they are not as accurate as the raptors 4: 10 Shadow Warriors (110pts) and Gemnids (60pts) 10 2+/3+ rend 1 can be pretty good if I can deploy them early in cover. Helps with sniping and warmachines with rise in cities. Gemnids is a great endless spell, but wondering if something else would be better but now I am wondering if I really need the 1st doomfire warlocks. They are mainly there to (bar being fast and holding obj) 1: dispel comet so the knight can recast it 2: Doom bolt something for D6 3: reduce LD of a unit by 1-D3 for Mindrazor works (depending if I actually cast MR and roll an 8 to cast vs LD10) So would I be better to drop the 2nd unit to and just take a Sorceress for 90pts for the 3rd dispel/cast and dispelling comet, leaving 240 to play with, then what do I get with that 240pts lol Could look like this: Slaughter Queen on Cauldron, general, devoted disciples, crimson rejuvenation Bloodwrack Medusa, Shadowstone, Mindrazor Hag Queen, Blessing of khaine Hag Queen, Catechism of Murder Knight incantor Sorceress 30 Sisters of Slaughter with Bucklers 20 Blood Sisters 10 Witch Aelves (Knives) 10 Witch Aelves (knives) Everblaze Comet

Looks interesting. No Cauldron though? that +1AS on snakes in great. 2 Units of 20 is scarey lol. I would maybe drop the single unit of 5 sisters for a screen of SOS or WE, just to give you a buffer from say like 40 Buffed plague monks smashing into you. I am playing Blades of Khorne tomorrow with my list, and thinking of changing itt slightly. I dont think 2 units of warlocks are that needed, and for 160pts (plus 10 left) i can and something more flexible (since I thought the crossbows were 16inch, but they are 10) Two options I am thinking of atm are both stormcast. 1: Knight-Incantor with Dais disk endless spell (140pts + 30pts) Gives: 2nd person who can cast comet 2nd Auto dispel 2 lots of flasks. Another caster to use realm spells (LVO) With Dais, he can have a 2nd dispel, +1AS and 12" fly. Makes a great unit with mystic shield for a 2+ reroll AS unit that can fly 12" This can give me 5 dispels a turn (2 of which one shot auto dispels) 2: 3 Vanguard Longstrikes (170pts) 24inch range (30 if not moved) can give me snipe capability to support the comet. 3 shots at 2+/3+, Rend -2, 2 damage is pretty good, especially 6's to hit being 2MW. Great way to finish a support hero/do extra damage when mixed with Comet. Testing out the Vanguards tomorrow ****** So tested out Vanguards. They are ok, but didnt really shine through. Picked up a second Knight-Incantor to try next. Also considering 3 Scourgerunner chariots

Chaos Giant i think

Yeah hallowheart is prob the best Take 3 Mages to support inc healing spell and emerald life swarm I wouldnt do cogs, but the battlemage that gives +2 run and charge Bubble him in a block of Phoenix guard Give him shooting support to clear chaff So id do: annointed (General) Battlemage battlemage Knight incantor (ignax scales) Sorceress 30 Phoenix Guard 20 Darkshards (retinue) 10 Darkshards Gotrek Emerald Life swarm Gives you a solid core (unbreakable 30 PG) Good magic support 60 shots a turn from Darkshards Dispel scroll from the incantor (with scaled to make him petty tough and can use the hallowheart ability on him) Also you have 200pts spare to add in what else you fancy

I was thinking less relying on it or centering my army around it 10 snakes is 280. Can do the turn 1 combo then just use them take out support heroes or units

Speaking in Blood Stalkers, has anyone ever tried using 10 in one unit as character assassins? 10 with mindrazor, Catachism and witchbrew could read hurt turn 1 if the Catachism turns the 6s into 2 MW plus then other damage being rend -2 (and maybe 2 damage)

My theory: Teclis and Tyrion on one model. Player chooses at the start of the battle round if using Teclis or Tyrion (one magic/support, other combat) Other is still used, but to a much lesser effect (like Morathi when she changes form. Maybe if Teclis is used, it has 4 spells/3 dispels etc, but if he is not used then he gets 1 cast/dispel) High point value but cool as ****** model.

I disagree entirely. We dont even know what kind of game it is, whether an epic size mini model game or using movement trays again. Besides, AoS has grown into its own thing with a strong and healthy/friendly community. AoS is fine and will continue to grow in the next two years

I I am looking forwards to see what they have to offer

Personally, I have never lost a unit of 20. they have been smashed up hard, but never fully dead. They are a great unit, only big weakness was the points they gave to slaanesh

Yeah. If they could be battle line and were better (like 6's do 2 MW or they can fire twice) I would like it if Morathi was your general then snakes could be your battle line also, as makes sense with theme. I have Stalkers sitting in a box doing nothing

Yeah, I feel you. And the realm spells really can impact a game. Atm I have been playing this and really enjoying it. Only played two games so far (both Won, top of turn 3 and 4) because I wanted to try something different and flexible. General:Bloodwrack Medusa, Devoted Disciples, Shadowstone, MindrazorHag Queen on Cauldron, Blessing of KhaineHag Queen, Catechism of MurderKnight-Incantor30 Sisters of Slaughter (Bucklers)20 Blood Sisters10 Witch Aelves (two knives)5 Doomfire Warlocks (Steed of Shadows)5 Doomfire Warlocks (Shroud of Despair)Everblaze Comet

Why the two mindrazors? interesting only the 1 Witchbrew/Buff, Snakes with Morathi and no Battalion. Congrats on 3rd

??? it is things to note for people facing them, not complaining. #Dontbeadick

Had my first game vs Bonedaddies last night: top things of note: 1: ability to give multi units reroll 1s on saves (with +1 save faction is tough as mortek guard get a 3+/3+/6+ most of the time 2: battalion with Immortis and Morghasts Archai. They can absorb so much damage ad transferred wounds are ignored on a 5+ (so with saves, transfers and undead rule they can absorb tons, plus Archon just heals them back) 3: the 30pt endless spell is a pain for just 30pts. Doing D3 wounds to units around it and D6 vs it chosen target (all on a 2+) is pretty good for 30pts as you have to waste a spell (due to portal) to dispel it or just ignore it 4: being able to give Morghasts Archai +1 rend for rend -3, 3 damage each attack really hurts. They can also get reroll 1's to hit. So 4 with halberds are hitting you with Reach 2, 3 attacks hitting on 3's (rerolling 1is), wounding on 3's. -3 Rend and 3 damage

Ya know, you are right. Tyrion, Lord of light, Captain of Hysh, Master of the Morris Dancers The tassels give it away. Perfect counter to Chaos as none are getting STD's anytime soon...

We have had new Slaanesh and Khorne, so my 2 cents is its Tzeentch cause they need an update I think If left field, Serephon. I think we will see them both of those updated before new Aelves (as much as I would love new Aelves, We had IDK and DoK not that long ago)