Duke of Gisoreux

Here are my Forgeworld models: Kazyk the Befouled Exalted Greater Daemon of Nurgle Warpgnaw Verminlord Clawlord on Brood Horror Skin Wolves Preyton Daemon Plague Toads of Nurgle Daemon Pox Riders of Nurgle Mourngul Bonegrinder Gargant Fimirach Noble Fimir Warriors Exalted Greater Daemon of Khorne Exalted Greater Daemon of Tzeentch Exalted Greater Daemon of Slaanesh Legion of Azgorh Warpfire Dragon Troggoth Hag Squig Gobba

General's Handbook 2019 Pitched Battle Profiles RAW: Funny fact: This means that as long as the new Sylvaneth Battletome has not been released yet, the current Sylvaneth Allegiance Abilities are broken as you are not allowed to place Sylvaneth Wyldwoods any more as they no longer have a Pitched Battle Profile in GHB 2019 and thus makes them invalid. 🙄 The following units have a warscroll, but no Pitched Battle Profile in GHB 2019 or are errataed out: Gitmob Grots: Doom Diver Catapult Grot Rock Lobber Grot Shaman Grot Spear Chukka Grot Wolf Chariots Grot Wolf Riders Grots Nasty Skulkers Snotling Pump Wagons Snotlings Skaven: Deathrunner Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team Skaven Chieftain with Battle Standard Skavenslaves Dark Elves: Beastmaster on Manticore Dreadlord Dreadlord on Drakespawn Reaper Bolt Thrower Shades Sorceress on Dark Pegasus Sorceress on Drakespawn Orcs & Goblins: Gitboss Gitboss on Wolf Chariot Orruk Bully Beastmen: Beastlord on Chariot Centigor Warhoof Wargor Standard Bearer Other: Gaunt Summoner & Chaos Familiars Harpies Sourbreath Troggoths Grot Scuttlings (never had a PBP)

An interesting choice are Dragon Blades from Order Draconis. Their points just dropped from 140 to 120 (for a unit of 5) in GHB 2019. They have equal or better stats than our Knights of the Realm. Their melee attack profiles are the same except that they have +1 attack compared to Knights of the Realm. They always reroll 1s on the save and even reroll 1s and 2s against shooting attacks. Dragon Blades even have +2 Move and +1 Bravery. Their points in GHB 2019 are 120 for a unit of 5, so they cost 24 points per model. Our Knights of the Realm still cost 220 for a unit of 8, so they cost 27.5 points per model. So you get a unit that is superior or equal in all stats and cheaper in points. Of course one could say: "Dragon Blades? But they are Aelves." Of course they are. They have the AELF keyword, but in my opinion you could easily use your Knights of the Realm models 1:1 for them . Concerning the AELF keyword you could state that they have aelven steeds which is the reason that they are faster. In the end they are just mounted knights you could easily add to your Bretonnian force and don't neccessarily need to get new models for them.

You are completely right. There is no reason not to take it. The only restriction is, that Seraphon is not allowed, which doesn't matter.

Order of the Blood-drenched Rose consists of 1-3 units of Blood Knights and 0-1 Vampire Lord on Nightmare, so the Vampire Lord is optional. I don't think so. As I said before all their spells would be cast on him. So the only thing that becomes useless would be the reroll for Grail Knights. The King needs the +1 to hit from the Enchantress. It's the main reason to take her actually. It's badly needed to trigger the effect of his Sword of Judgement. Edit: Just created another list:

I think there is no reason to distinguish them from Knights of the Realm as there are no Knights of the Realm in the list to confuse. I analyzed your army list: I created an overall army rating calculated from average damage and effective wounds to compare army lists. Your list scored a 260.3 rating. As you said they will deal a lot of damage, but they are not very durable (only 243.68 effective wounds). I created another alternate list, actually replacing the Grail Knights with Blood Knight mercenaries: The list deals less damage than yours, but is much more durable (361.40 effective wounds).

I think I would use Bretonnian Knights (Knights of the Realm for example) to proxy them, although I have the required amount of Demigryph models. Makes no difference. It was intended to have extra CPs to use the command abilities of both the King and the Freeguild General. I created an alternate full Free Peoples list: I have Bretonnian models for everything in the list:

That's the lastest list I came up with. I included more Demigryph Knights as their points are reduced from 140 to 130 in GHB 2019. How do you like it? All spells from Enchantress (Mystic Shield and Divine Favour) and Damsel (Divine Blessing) will be cast on the King. Together with his Master of Defense command trait and Champion of the People ability my hope is that he survives quite a while to kill as many enemy heroes and monsters as possible.

Actually they never had any.

Correct numbers in red. I think you rounded your numbers after each step. I created formulas to calculate everything at once and round only once at the end. At Mounted Yeomen I made a mistake as I copied the formula from Pegasus Knights and forgot to change their attacks from 2 to 1. Your number is almost correct, the correct value is 3.04 not 3.05. Probably because you rounded between calculating steps. Demigryph Knights will have points reduction in GHB 2019, maybe from 140 down to 130 or even 120.

Your Knights Errant, Knights of the Realm and Pegasus Knights were right. Here are my numbers. Average damage against save 4+: 8 Knights Errant: 3.13 / 3.65 (Damsel) / 5.00 (charge) / 5.83 (Damsel + charge) / 6.67 (King + charge) / 7.78 (King + Damsel + charge) 8 Knights of the Realm: 3.50 / 6.00 (charge) / 7.67 (King + charge) / 4.67 (Battlemage) / 7.67 (Battlemage + charge) / 9.81 (King + Battlemage + charge) 16 Knights of the Realm: 7.97 / 13.48 (charge) / 17.24 (King + charge) / 10.63 (Battlemage) / 17.24 (Battlemage + charge) / 22.07 (King + Battlemage + charge) 5 Questing Knights: 4.51 / 7.77 (Monster) / 5.74 (King + charge) / 9.81 (King + charge + Monster) 5 Grail Knights: 3.47 / 7.18 (charge) / 5.69 (Daemon/Death) / 10.14 (charge + Daemon/Death) / 4.84 (Enchantress) / 9.78 (Enchantress + charge) / 7.80 (Enchantress + Daemon/Death) / 13.73 (Enchantress + charge + Daemon/Death) / 9.07 (King + charge) / 12.78 (King + charge + Daemon/Death) / 10.86 (King + Enchantress + charge) / 15.19 (King + Enchantress + charge + Daemon/Death) 10 Grail Knights: just double all numbers above 3 Pegasus Knights: 1.92 / 3.86 (charge) 5 Mounted Yeomen: 1.58 10 Mounted Yeomen: 3.04 3 Demigryph Knights: 3.38 (Lance & Sword) / 3.67 (Cavalry Halberd) / 4.83 (Lance & Sword + charge) / 6.22 (Lance & Sword + Freeguild General) / 6.61 (Cavalry Halberd + Freeguild General) A question I came up with: As long as the Standard Bearers in Bretonnian Knight units just give you reroll battleshock, there seems to be no reason to actually take one in a unit as you already get that bonus from the order allegiance abilities. Is there any reason or advantage for having a standard bearer I missed?

I am sorry, but it seems your durability numbers are wrong. 8 Knight Errant or Knights of the Realm have 32 Effective Wounds (38.4 on the charge) 5 Questing Knights or Grail Knights have 20 Effective Wounds (24 on the charge) 3 Pegasus Knights have 24 Effective Wounds (28.8 on the charge) 10 Mounted Yeomen have 24 Effective Wounds (24.83 on the charge) A 4+ save effectively doubles the amount of wounds as you save wounds half of the time. A 5+ save adds 50% to the wounds and a 6+ save adds 20%. Save 6+: 120% Effective Wounds Save 5+: 150% Effective Wounds Save 4+: 200% Effective Wounds Save 3+: 300% Effective Wounds Save 2+: 600% Effective Wounds With rerolling 1s it would be: Save 6+: 124% Effective Wounds Save 5+: 164% Effective Wounds Save 4+: 240% Effective Wounds Save 3+: 450% Effective Wounds Save 2+: 3600% Effective Wounds With rerolling all fails it would be: Save 6+: 144% Effective Wounds Save 5+: 225% Effective Wounds Save 4+: 400% Effective Wounds Save 3+: 900% Effective Wounds Save 2+: 3600% Effective Wounds

Offensive comparison: 16 Knights of the Realm do 7.97 damage on average against targets with save 4+ with their melee attacks (including horses). When charging the average damage increases to 13.48 against targets with save 4+. A regular game has 5 rounds, 5 turns for each player. They can only charge in your own turn, so let's assume they charged at 20% of the turns in a game. So in a whole battle they would possibly deal 4 * 7.97 + 13.48 = 45.36 damage. Their points cost is 440 for a unit of 16 so you pay 9.70 points per damage they do. 3 Demigryph Knights with Lance and Sword do 3.38 damage on average against targets with save 4+ with their melee attacks (including demigryphs). When charging the average damage increases to 4.83 against targets with save 4+. So in a whole battle they would possibly deal 4 * 3.38 + 4.83 = 18.35 damage. Their points cost is 140 for a unit of 3 so you pay only 7.62 points per damage they do. So damagewise they perform 27% better than Knights of the Realm compared to their points. Defensive comparison: Knights of the Realm have 2 wounds and a 4+ save. They can reroll 1s on the save when they charge. So a single Knight of the Realm has 4.00 effective wounds when saving wounds from regular attacks with no rend. This increases to 4.80 wounds on the charge. Let's assume the same as above, so a whole unit of 16 has 64.00 effective wounds and 76.80 wounds on the charge, which I combine to (4 * 64.00 + 76.80) / 5 = 66.56 effective wounds. Their points cost is 440 for a unit of 16 so you pay 6.61 points per effective wound the unit has. Demigryph Knights have 4 wounds and a 4+ save. They reroll 1s on the save at any time, not only when they charge. So a single Demigryph Knight has 9.60 effective wounds when saving wounds from regular attacks with no rend. The whole unit of 3 has 3 * 9.60 = 28.80 effective wounds. Their points cost is 140 for a unit of 3 so you pay only 4.81 points per effective wound the unit has. This makes them 36% more durable than Knights of the Realm compared to their points.

Funny, I came up with the same list except, that I replaced the unit of 16 Knights of the Realm with 3 units of 3 Demigryph Knights which can be buffed by the Freeguild General once they are in combat. I don't see a problem with Bravery. Archers are chaff anyway and are supposed to die or flee. Grails Knights won't flee as long as the King is alive. Demigryph Knights are only 3 models and their standard rule says that they only have to test for battleshock when 2 or more die, so you will have only 1 left anyway.

Here are mine: There is no conversion needed when you use this mounted damsel model. Just put her on a Pegasus:

Bretonnia is not explicitly mentioned, but they mention Compendium units, so there is still hope that they could at least adjust the points costs for Bretonnia for 2nd edition.

Why not use other warscrolls? You have no benefit from using pure Bretonnian warscrolls. I have no problems using Freeguild warscrolls for my Bretonnians where I see them fit. As long as I still use the Bretonnian models for them it still feels like playing Bretonnia and that's what counts for me. Thus I would never use Freeguild/Empire models. As long as I see a Bretonnian army on the table it is just not important which rules/warscrolls I actually use for them. I even have a bunch of old Bretonnian crossbowmen models (back from 3rd edition WHFB) to be used as Freeguild Crossbowmen. My old Bretonnian Knights on foot, used as Freeguild Guard with Swords and Shields: Btw. did you notice the latest news from Warhammer Community concerning the upcoming GHB 2019? So the GHB 2019 may include point adjustments for Bretonnia.

Yes, that's correct. When you calculate the probabilities this leads to the average damage values I posted above. 32 Peasant Bowmen do 3.21 damage on average against targets with save 4+ with their regular shooting attacks. With arrowstorm (once per battle) they do 12.54 damage on average against targets with save 4+. So in a whole battle they would possibly deal 4 * 3.21 + 12.54 = 25.38 damage. Their points cost is 400 for a unit of 32 so you pay 15.76 points per damage they do. 30 Freeguild Archers do 5.72 damage on average against targets with save 4+ with their regular shooting attacks. So in a whole battle they would possibly deal 5 * 5.72 = 28.6 damage. Their points cost is 300 for a unit of 30 so you pay only 10.49 points per damage they do. So they do about 50% more damage than the Peasant Bowmen compared to their points. In addition they are Battleline and the Peasant Bowmen are not. This can be even further improved by adding a Freeguild General when he uses his command ability on them which gives +1 to hit and +1 to wound: 30 Freeguild Archers do 9.00 damage on average against targets with save 4+ with their regular shooting attacks when supported by a Freeguild General's command ability. So in a whole battle they would possibly deal 5 * 9.00 = 45.00 damage. Their points cost is 300 for a unit of 30, the Freeguild General is 100 points and 5 command points are 250 points. Freeguild General can support up to 3 units at once so I add only one third of the point costs. So points would be 300 + (100 + 250) / 3 = 417 points, so you pay only 9.26 points per damage they do. This is even 70% better than Peasant Bowmen compared to their points. Freeguild Crossbowmen perform even a lot better: 30 Freeguild Crossbowmen do 8.44 damage on average against targets with save 4+ with their regular shooting attacks. So in a whole battle they would possibly deal 5 * 8.44 = 42.20 damage. Their points cost is 300 for a unit of 30 so you pay only 7.11 points per damage they do. This is 121% better than Peasant Bowmen compared to their points. 30 Freeguild Crossbowmen do 15.70 damage on average against targets with save 4+ with their regular shooting attacks when supported by a Freeguild General's command ability. So in a whole battle they would possibly deal 5 * 15.70 = 78.50 damage. Points cost are the same as the Freeguild Archers, so you pay only 5.31 points per damage they do. This is even 197% better than Peasant Bowmen compared to their points.

Actually the average is even 4D6 mortal wounds because the king rerolls all fails to hit against heroes and monsters. The king's damage average on the charge is 23.76 against heroes and monsters with save 4+. Without charging and without his command ability he still does 19 damage on average against heroes and monsters with save 4+. This includes the Hippogryph's attacks as well.

I enjoyed watching your battle reports on MWG. Based on your army list I toyed a little bit around with your Men-At-Arms tactics and had game with the following list against Fyreslayers. Allegiance: Hammerhal Mortal Realm: Ulgu Leaders King on Hippogryph (400) Bretonnian Lord (140) - General - Mount: Pegasi - Trait: Legendary Fighter - Artefact: Sword of Judgement Enchantress (160) Damsel (100) Battleline 16 x Knights of the Realm (440) 10 x Freeguild Guard (80) - Swords and Shields 10 x Freeguild Guard (80) - Swords and Shields Units 5 x Grail Knights (180) 5 x Grail Knights (180) 5 x Grail Knights (180) Total: 1940 / 2000 Wounds: 107 I always use allegiance Hammerhal so you get at least +1 Bravery for all your units for free while keeping the Order allegiance traits. I gave the artefact to the Bretonnian Lord instead of the King on Hippogryph to split attraction between the two. I also replaced the Men-At-Arms by two units of Freeguild Guard with Swords and Shields because they can take more damage for their points as they have a 4+ save with reroll 1s. I displayed them using my old Foot Knight models. We had four objectives, one in your own territory which is worth 1 victory point for you but 4 for your opponent and two objectives in the center which were two victory points each. I had the first turn and the Freeguild Guards ran and claimed both objectives in the center. So I earned 5 victory points in my first turn. Of course my Freeguild Guard got charged, but they stayed alive longer than expected. In my second turn I managed to charge with almost every knight unit and they inflicted massive damage. I charged the enemy general (Runefather on Magmadroth) with my Bretonnian Lord which had +1 to hit from his own ability on the charge, +1 to hit from the King's command ability and another +1 to hit from the Enchantress' spell. So thanks to the Sword of Judgement he inflicted D6 mortal wounds on a 3+, 2s were regular hits, rerolling fails (1s). I inflicted 4D6 mortal wounds and killed the Runefather on Magmadroth. In the end I won the game by 25 - 15. 😎 Thoughts about the army list: Generally the tactics worked really well. But I came up with the following ideas. Having 3x 5 Grail Knights is too much. They die too fast from shooting for their points. Their save isn't better than the one of the other knights, but they are much more expensive. So I would only take a unit of 10 in the future. I also had the idea to use Freeguild Archers as shielding units. They have the advantage that they get a free move after deployment, so you don't have to run them to reach the center of the battlefield. So if you get first turn, they would move 10" and could still shoot at the enemy as they have a 18" range with their bows. You could use Bretonnian Bowmen models to display them. Another idea I had was to replace the Knights of the Realm with Demigryph Knights as they do even slightly more damage compared to their points cost and are also more reliable as they have 4 wounds each with 4+ save and always reroll 1s on the save. So you could replace the unit of 16 Knights of the Realm (440 points) with 3 units of 3 Demigryph Knights each (420 points). When adding a Freeguild General you could use his command ability on the Demigryph Knights when they get stuck in prolonged combat to massively improve their damage output (+1 to hit / +1 to wound). (Sorry for proxying Knights Errant models as Knights of the Realm as I had not rebased their models at this time)

Just take a look!

I miss the "All" button. 😉

The rules don't prevent it. They just say that units with DEADWALKERS, DEATHLORDS, DEATHMAGES, DEATHRATTLE and NIGHTHAUNT keywords are allowed in a Legion of Grief. Thus Nagash seems to be allowed as he has the DEATHLORDS keyword. Only restriction is that you have to include Lady Olynder in your army and make her the general as soon as another Mortarch (Arkhan, Mannfred or Neferata) is also included in the army.

Here's a little collection update: I own all Battleline units in the game now, which means I have at least one unit of each existing Battleline. So concerning Battlelines I am at 100%. 😉

The reason for the oval base for Pegasus Knights is pile in and to keep unit coherency easier. We were told that by a GW store employee. So we used the base size for all Pegasus related models.