PlasticCraic

I was surprised it came on an oval too, but it does fit on there nicely. Looks good on it.

Top 10, awesome achievement! Well done that Tyrant!

Couldn't agree with this more, I'd love to see a few books to update the older factions. If production capacity at the factory is a major bottleneck (as is rumoured), then putting out some Battletome-only releases could be the perfect solution.

So if you were playing LON with a Bloodtoofs-style army... a) How would you all approach it? b) Is there any scope to stuff up their Gravesites with your Realmgate?

Nothing to apologise for mate, and please never stop sharing what you've heard! Yeah I think it's quite plausible that they did the switch BECAUSE of the heavy rumours... when they have NOVA right next week it's an easy switch. We shall see!

For sure, they owe us nothing. But I think it's relevant to the conversation that Horticulus is factually incorrect to say "they never said Moonclan today". They did literally say Moonclan today. "Don't blame them for being wrong about Moonclan today" - that I can agree with.

He (or she) literally did say there would be a Grot reveal day.

Khorne are generally a very bad matchup for Ironjawz. They punish you for having output in the Combat phase (Blood Warriors hitting you on the way down), they have a strong magic phase due to the Prayers and anti-magic, and in principle Ironjawz can't reach their heroes which are key. Allied Spear Chukkas are a great way to get around that. A battery of 3 comes in at 360 points, and should take off pretty much a Priest a turn between them. They combo nicely with the Maw Krusha because you can soften up a target and then smash it up with Destructive Bulk, hopefully triggering On Da Rampage. The crew are very vulneraable, but the best thing is he can't reach them himself in this matchup. You might already be aware of this, but one way to minimise their pile ins is to tag the edge of a big unit with some Gore Gruntas, and hit the other side with your damage unit. Another one to watch out for is to charge over the top into his nest of heroes. So if you can spread out and make him go first (Khorne can't generally hit you Turn 1), you can draw him into spreading out to challenge for objectives. (MSU Gore Gruntas again are essential). With the 12" hero phase move on your Maw Krusha you can be 3" away with your Mighty Destroyers move, then fly right over the top in the movement phase (remembering that Mighty Destroyers is no longer limited to 6"). You will generally need to be pretty cagey with your Maw Krusha I think. This is not the game to Yolo him unfortunately - you need to engineer a situation for him to clear house with his heroes as described above, or make him go first and use the MK for the counter punch. Honestly you will still need to play well and roll well to come out on top. They have a much better toolset to work with than us, with a full array of units to choose from (including chaff), Prayers, allies such as Slaves to Darkness that don't count as Allies and get keyword synergy, and so on. But those are some tools you do have that can rebalance things a little.

It used to be specified in an FAQ that you could use Rampaging Destroyers to retreat, but could not then charge later in the turn if you did so (it was one of the earliest FAQs in fact). I don't think it's in there any more, because of the way Rampaging / Mighty Destroyers works now, but GW have overlooked that the Batallion move can still achieve the same thing. The unit has moved out of combat so they have retreated, I don't think that's really in question. I think where @Malakree makes a really interesting point is that the Allegiance Abilities say you can charge if you are within 12", which (arguably) overrides the core rule as per the cited FAQ. Charging in the Charge Phase would be a definite no-no, you have retreated. But charging with an Allegiance Ability that just says you can charge in the Hero Phase (no ifs, buts or maybes)? In a world where Allegiance Abilities trump core rules? I think you'd have a strong case personally. I think you are right though @Sangfroid, it's one for the FAQ team. And as an aside - hands up if you remember the first ever AOS FAQ, where it was bubbles of text on a painted background! ✋ ?

Yep. @Tom Loyn has posted about his list here in the Destruction forum, you can read what he has to say at this link. Tom also went 5-0 at the 6 Nations (representing Wales with his dragons!) so this list is now 10-0 in competitive events :

I think our messages overlapped there Davros! Must have been typing at the same time. I'm really not keen on the FL on TT personally, but I do agree that the Huskard on Stonehorn is viable. I'm a great believer that the Stonehorn itself does most of the damage anyway (hence why I like the Beastriders)...being able to take an artefact, he's pretty solid at 360 points. And like you said the combo with the MF is useful (I quite like Mournfang, although I think I'm in a minority there!).

I like the SH Beastriders, they are pretty solid at 320 imo. Most people would run a Frostlord on Stonehorn and a Huskard on Thundertusk (or 2, or 3) so it's not the loadout that most people consider optimal. You don't really want a Thundertusk in melee because its profile degrades so quickly. So the combat hero on what is essentially an artillery piece is a bit of a curate's egg without a clear role. 420 points is ridiculous and I would not consider this piece viable at all. The main use of a Huskard on Stonehorn would be for the Eurlbad requirement. I would say that he is usable at 360 points, if not optimal. Would it really be that hard to switch the heroes around? At a push you could just swap the heroes' hands over. The one with the big spear is the Frostlord, and the one with the Vulture is the Huskard, and I can't really see anyone questioning that. You actually have the building blocks for an Olwyr Alfrostun, which has decent batallion benefits. The problem being that once you have included the minimum requirements (including the Frostlord on Thundertusk tax), you have virtually no bodies on the board, not enough heroes to use all the artefacts you have paid for, no healing on the Thundertusks and nothing useful to spend all those command points on. Personally I'd be buying one of these and carrying out some surgery! https://www.games-workshop.com/en-AU/Citadel-Saw-2017-Non-Sale (You could also take a Fungoid Shammy instead of the Sabres, although that makes you 2 drops).

Yeah I agree with @amysrevenge...they are just going through every GA and mentioning their relationship with dragons, then at the end culminating in "Look, you can buy some dragons". Just a bit of fun and an advertising piece really. In that context would be weird if they didn't mention that our main interaction with Dragons is killing them - I don't think there's anything more than that going on really.

Great thinking @Malakree The only thing where it could get a bit technical is if you're doing it in their turn, in terms of who has precedence. If you're doing it at the end of their charge phase for example you'll be fine, because they don't have anything that could trigger at the same time (and therefore trump). However if Nighthaunt charge you, they attack immediately so they would jump the gun on you...even a Destructive Bulk which just happens "after you complete a charge move" would probably be simultaneous (since you have no timing within the phase to anchor to), and therefore the players whose turn it is takes precedence?

That's right, the Brooch is key. Also @Malakree is an advocate of the Prophet of the Waaagh with the Brooch... So you're likely to get a couple of 6s with the rerolls. Therefore you're probably averaging at least 7 extra attacks, and 9 won't be that unusual.

WOW that's a big question. I hate cop-out answers but you really need to play a lot games and build up experience to judge every situation. Although with Bloodtoofs specifically...you will usually go first. In general, you want to go first if you can reach them and deal devastating damage turn 1. You also want to go first if they can reach you turn 1 (including deep striking / magic / shooting) because you probably don't have much in the way of screening. You also want to go first if they have a lot of defensive buffs (including battleshock protection) - to hit them before they get it off. You also want to go first in Places of Power style scenarios where they have unkillable heroes that you won't be able to shift. If they can't really hurt you (footslogging army) - you might let them go first and hope for the double. But more often with Bloodtoofs you are looking for the shock and awe - so you'll go first.

Excellent batrep @James S, sounds like you are getting a lot out of your games at the moment even if it is heavy going! I think this is a great illustration of how we suffer from lack of batallions. Never decide who goes first with a foot slogging army -> do precious little Turn 1 -> get double turned in a crucial early turn It's that crushing spiral we are all too familiar with! The BOBO pack which was a roll off for first turn (+1 for whoever finished deploying first) was maybe a bit fairer on armies that haven't been blessed with much in the way of tech? Would allied Stonehorn Beastriders help for first turn shock value if you get put in? I guess it's only going to get you so far...pretty easy to screen against. What's next for this list?

@Killamike Gotcha, well done on the win. 24 players on the nose...I reckon that'll put you top of the tree when Clint updates the rankings? How did you find the Rogue Idol? I was actually looking at lists with him over the weekend (just finished painting him) but every time, I kept coming back to just wanting more Big Stabbas instead!

@Killamike congrats on the win! You're not talking about Brizvegas Open by any chance?

Yeah Seraphon is really strong right now. Between their extensive summoning, amazing allegiance abilities, redeploy shenanigans, barrage of useful battalions which gives them access to multiple artefacts and command points, and huge army range that somehow avoided being split up when AOS started out…they have all the tools for success that we conspicuously lack. Just a thought, but could dropping one unit of Ironguts and putting in two more units of Grots help with board control? Especially if you can use the command abilities for the 6” run to help you spread out. And allies can help a little bit with speed (run + charge on Stonehorn Beastriders for example, or maybe Mournfang)…likewise Cogs? Although it does sound like you will be badly up against it in this matchup regardless. FWIW my personal belief is that the FAQ they brought out last year was a mistake, where they said a redeploy out of combat does not count as retreating. They took something that was already an incredibly powerful toolkit, and just made it no-brainer easy mode.

@Skabnoze good shout. I also like that your mind went straight to gaming the system to fit 7 Heroes in! Kunnin'

Awesome ain't it! Great news. What Command Trait do you like on the Hag?

Unfortunately she can't be your General, because she doesn't have the Leader Battlefield Role.

So there are two ways: 1) Allies. In a 2000 point Matched Play game, you can have up to 400 points of BCR in an Gutbusters army, or vice versa. You also need to keep a ratio of 3:1 of your army units to allied units. Popular choices are Butchers and Grots as Allies for BCR. And Mournfang and Stonehorn Beastriders as Allies for Gutbusters. In both cases you're getting Ogors keyword synergy from the Butchers. 2) GA Destruction. You would need to fill all your Battleline with Ogors (since they are GA Battleline). Something like 12 Ogors, 3 Ogors, 3 Ogors for example. Then go for your life.

That's an excellent summary @Malakree, much appreciated. I guess Khorne with their auto unbind artefact are another one to watch out for. Do Seraphon need LOS for their auto unbind? The threat of On Da Rampage was the piece I was missing, it makes a lot more sense when you throw that into the equation. Also - since we're in Hysh, and with 2 Batallions we have artefacts for days - the Luminary Rod could be worthy of consideration? It could further help with creating holes, especially if there are two thin lines?