PlasticCraic

Ironjawz have been killing it over the weekend! Multiple strong GT showings...would love to know more, if anyone involved is part of the TGA community.

Thanks for the write ups Malakree, excellent and informative as always. Can I ask you to expand on this part a little bit? What was it that your opponent did that was so good? Sounds like it could be a good learning point for everyone! (I know Nick personally and can confirm he is an excellent player btw! I'm looking forward to hearing his own Batreps on Dwellers). Congrats on your first 4-1 and trophy!

@Doom & Darkness called this on his recent show: His prediction was that it was a way to give people a way to continue to use those models, which seems to be largely accurate. It's quite a smart move if so, to soften the blow.

Yeah I've chatted with a guy from Brazil in the Underworlds Whatsapp, so GW def has some kind of footprint there.

Glad you guys had a great time, go IJ!

I hope you're right, because IGOUGO has been ruining 40K for years, and I can only think it endures due to stubborness on the part of GW. I want it to be the amazing wargame that the models and setting deserve.

Was that you taking names at Blackout @Malakree? Congratulations if so!

Great shout!

It's fair to say that there is currently no equivalent of the Warboss. There is no Megaboss on Gore Grunta in Ironjawz, nor Big Boss on Boar in Bonesplitterz. He's actually in quite an interesting spot as a mobile "combat" Hero whose main purpose is actually buff auras. Hopefully that gets fixed up with a Megaboss on Gore Grunta in a Carrion Empire style release. The chariot is unique to Greenskinz and not replicated in either range. BOC kept theirs so there's no reason why it couldn't have stayed. The Orruks themselves are actually a decent plastic kit, and way less generic than something like Skeletons or Zombies. They could have been cheap Battleline bodies (Ardboyz and Savage Orruks are cheap wounds, but not cheap bodies...sometimes you just need some 80 point goobers to stand in a line 9" from a board edge, or wear a Terrorgheist to the face). They easily could have had a role as true chaff. Agreed that the Boarboys are definitely a triple-up and they would have to go whatever happened for my money. Best thing to with them if you already have some is to count them as Savage Boarboys, maybe with some Bonesplitterz bling on them. The whole lore of Bonesplitterz is that they are Greenskinz who have felt the Call of the Savage Waaagh! and left their tribes...these could easily just be New 'Unz. So out of the 4 Greenskinz kits, it's only the Boarboys that are truly redundant in my opinion. The other 3 could have had a meaningful role, although I wouldn't have been too sad if they go on to make the Warboss redundant by bringing out a Megaboss on Gore Grunta.

This would be 3 drops and a decent starting point I think. You might want to either beef up the Squig Hoppers, or drop the Big Batallion and switch them out for Boingrots:

Yeah I think he could work well in a Squig list. The downsides are: - You realistically have to take him as your General to get the most out of him. Which means no Command Trait (Fight Another Day) on your Mangler Boss - He does not make Squig Hoppers Battleline But on the flipside: - He is generally good and worth the points in his own right (handcannon and warscroll spell are legit) - He does make the Cave Squigs Battleline - His Command Ability synergises really nicely with the Squigalanche big batallion Specifically on that last one, you only get the Batallion benefit under Da Moon, and he gives you control over that, so he really synergises well there. So yes, I think he potentially works really well in a Squig list. What did you have in mind? FWIW I would focus on Squig Hoppers in a Squigalanche, because they do their Mortal Wounds in the Movement Phase. So you can just run over the top of your enemies and then pile back in from 6". Whereas Boingrots really need to charge to get the most out of them.

My actual favourite thing in the game right now.

You do make a good case!

@Hyperrion honestly my best advice would be to not buy anything at all just yet. The Ogor Mawtribes have been teased, and that may well have implications for Beastclaw. We don't know what will be even part of the game then, e.g. the Frost Sabres you have mentioned might get deleted from the range because they are Finecast. Maybe not, but we just don't know. Anything you buy now, before we know the details of Mawtribes is taking a risk. A given unit might not be optimal / competitive or in any way viable...or it might get deleted from the game entirely. My honest advice is to buy nothing.

Yeah that could work! I guess the problem overall is that it's not very granular... Maybe it could be more like Nurgle, where there are multiple ways to generate this resource? Completed charges could be one of several.

Yeah I'm not sure. One thing that could work thematically is completed charges...every completed charge generates a Waaagh! point (just thinking off the top of my head here!) What do you reckon?

@Ollie Grimwood Yeah. I guess the summoning in Bonegrinz is another one (lures more Boyz to the draw of the Waagh!) and I could see something similar here. Kinda like Blood Tithes...you can spend it on extra attacks / pile ins etc, or spend it on summoning Boyz (from the board edge would be most thematic).

Is the Ragged Cloak worth considering?

You could also drop down both units of Brutes to Ardboyz / GG, that would put you bang on the money? Leave the Warchanter holding the Brooch, and give something sexy to the Maw Krusha.

Agreed. The Maniak Weirdnob could desperately use it (awful model), and while the Savage Big Boss is still very cool (imo) he suffers from the foot being moulded into the square base (very easy fix by clipping off the edges and gluing it onto a round, but that would seem weird and awkward to new players). The other two Heroes are decent, they just suffer from the standard Finecast issues of cleaning up flashes etc, but they do look good on the table. So realistically they could use an update, but I don't think that updating Destruction heroes is a big priority for GW. I'm not expecting any new models except the standard terrain + Endless Spells, although an Underworlds Warband could be a nice way to slip a new plastic Hero in there. Yep, I think that's an interesting case. I love my current Tyrant with Gutgouger and he's painted to a nice standard. And although I could carry on using him as a Tyrant under the new book, I'll still probably by the new model because it's so cool, and in this case it won't leave a sour taste because you're not being compelled to dump your old miniatures - you're doing it through choice. Yeah, end of the road for Maneaters I think. Gorgers and Yetis could make a really nice dual-purpose plastic kit imo...I'm not confident that it will happen, but they could and should be something amazing. Gorgers could actually be quite useful, even without doing anything much, if they were cheap enough...a unit that deep strikes straight onto an objective always has some kind of utility, even if it is just "trade to win" (dangle it out there then follow up with something heavy), or messing with your opponent's resources by forcing them to leave something more expensive standing around on an Objective to guard against the deepstrike. The main reason I think they suffer is because they have the most restrictive deepstrike in the game (both in terms of timing and 12" positioning) - with slightly more generous rules there, I think they could really have a niche. Or they just get squatted. As you said, we shall see!

I would hold off on the Thundertusk. That kit currently has 6 different Warscrolls: Frostlord on Stonehorn / Thundertusk Huskard on Stonehorn / Thundertusk Beastriders on Stonehorn / Thundertusk Unless you're heavily into magnetizing, who knows what variant you will want to build when the update comes out? Even the Ogor Bulls, we know they'll be in the book because they have been reboxed and featured heavily in the recent video. But currently the more popular build is dual weapons, maybe it will be the Iron Fists in the new book instead? Maybe they will not be the Battleline option you want at all - maybe Leadbelchers will suddenly become the go-to for example? If you want to be safe, I would buy literally nothing for now, and hold tight for the book.

You'll have 6 or 9 nettas anyway, so that already takes a bite out of the difference. If you're swamping the enemy in a big blanket, the main ones who won't be in range are the 1" coherency spacers filling the gaps between enemy units. You might get the odd one of them in with the 2" weapons that you wouldn't otherwise. Otherwise you're fighting in 2 ranks anyway. If you are facing -1 to Hit, Stabbas are better (they are hitting on 5s and Spears on 6s, so you are getting double the hits). That equation swings back the other way if you are facing -2 or more to Hit (everything is hitting on 6s anyway at that point, so it's better to have any extra attacks in range). The whole calculation hinges around what percentage you assume you will get in, which obviously varies from each combat to the next. But I think consensus amongst most Gitz players I know is that you can usually get enough Stabbas in to make the 4+ to hit slightly better. But there really isn't very much difference in practice.

Yeah I'd agree with @amysrevenge The Mangler Boss is probably the opportunity for change...I'd sub him out for a heap of Grots personally. Gives you the bodies / screening / board control / late game recycled bodies. Spiders don't lack "Something that can go over there, do some damage then die". Mangler Boss and Spider Riders are broadly similar in that role. I reeeaalllly don't like the Flingas (I'd go Skitterstrand over them personally, if you're keen to do something different), but if you do like them, go for it!

Fair enough, makes sense when you put it like that

Peronally I think it'll be hard to build a competitive army in this vein. They suffer (chronically) from a lack of +1 to cast, for a supposedly magic army. When they first came out, that was OK, because virtually everyone was casting and unbinding from scratch. You'd probably roll the 6+, sometimes you wouldn't and it might get unbound (but not early game, because unbind range was only 18")...it was fun. And your Heroes were cheap enough to throw in a Wardokk or two, so you might hit lucky and get a +1 to cast from there. Now...not so much. You're not finding room for a 100 point wizard with no warscroll spell (!) for a 1 in 3 chance of hitting a +1 to cast, not when all your other support Heroes are so expensive. The only way you can cast reliably is with Maniak Weirdnob's (rerollable) cast from outside of unbind range, which is realistically going on Hand of Gork and Brutal Beast Spirits, and maybe an endless spell that affects the whole board (e.g. Cogs) so it can also be cast from the backboard. It's just fundamentally not very efficient to take pot shots at casting multiple Endless Spells from the frontline, casting from scratch and in unbind range, with overcosted wizards. You could always take Drakkfoot, but that's been incredibly overcosted from Day 1, both in its own right (for the Batallions themselves) and in terms of requiring large numbers of underpowered Morr Boys, with their tiny number of low-quality attacks on large bases. So sorry to be a downer, but I don't think we play this game very well. Gloomspite for example have much more game in this arena - although the new Orruk Wartribes book could change everything. Drakkfoot might be a "Skyport" (free rules instead of a Batallion), and the Morr Boys warscroll might get a bump up...casting with bonuses and surrounded by effective combat units, a proper melee 'n' magic army, sounds great!