bonzai

Yep. That is why you will see a lot of 2 Wurrgog lists with Amulet of destiny and glowing tattoos.

I have been thinking about what new units/models we could be getting down the line. Ushoran is definitely up there. A new Varghulf and Courtier models would also be great. Regarding new stuff... there are a few things I could see us getting. I can see three new hero units. A ghast acolyte (aka court wizard). Basically a cheap caster hero option. A Royal Bannerman. He would be some sort of Courtier that holds the royal banner (essentialy a crucified corpse), and would be a totem. Lastly would be the royal jester. I see a some sort of nasty Courtier that is an ambushing alpha strike hero. As far as other units, I would like to see us pick up batswarms as a new Battleline. A deep striking tarpit unit that sucks at combat, but is cheap. Soulblight lost them, so fair game for us to pick them up. Lastly I could see us getting Royal Hounds. They would be large mutated dogs that are relatively cheap, 8 wound monsters that could be Reinforced (Battleline in gristlegore). I think those options could shore us up as an army and fill in some gaps. Especially if they follow their current trend with the battle tomes.

Yep, that was my point. It didn't work on mortal wounds before, but now what mortal wound dealing attacks do we have? I am not aware of any. So no real change in practice, other than all of the secondary things that we lost.

No arguments from me, except I would put Drakkfoot at almost the same place as Bonegrinz. The Drakkfoot's ability only applies to attacks. All of their mortal wound output comes from things outside of the attack phase so they get ward saves against it as normal. They always get their regular armor save, and quality rend is rare. So you are evidently supposed to go with volume of attacks, and if you are doing that anyway you may as well go with Icebone as it is useful whether your opponent has a ward save or not. I will still play Drakkfoot. I have since first edition. But the main ability is functionaly no different than it was, last edition, but it lost all the other stuff that the subfaction gave me.

You are not wrong. The only Bonesplitterz option you might consider is the Wurrgog for his mortal wound output and as a two cast wizard. If you were running a rogue Idol or two it's even better as the casting bonuses make his spell better.. Otherwise they don't offer anything that the other Faction don't already do better.

I think Bonegrinz will have one brick of 30 arrowboys that they do all out Attack on every turn, maybe a pair of Wurrgogs for the mask, a few units of big stabbas for rend, and then flood the board with as many msu arrowboys as they can. Is it great? No. But it can be annoying to chew through. Regarding the other lists, I am undecided about bricks of 30 foot sloggers. It helps with holding 1 objective, but it also ties up more of your army in one spot. I don't know. It's a trade off...

Then there are the secondary things that were lost like monster hunters and such that are harder to factor in. They aren't that much worse, but I knew we were in trouble when GW said that feedimg units of 10 to Mega Gargants was a good solution. Lol.

Anyone else hoping that GW doesn't get us a new book for a while? At least until they are ready to give us a bunch of new models? I play Bonesplitterz as well, and the way that the new Orruk and Stormcast books were treated, I don't think that I want them touching us until they have a bunch of hot new models that they want to push with powerful new rules. With both books they stripped down the flavor and options of the old stuff, while the new models were given the VIP treatment. I think I would rather hold on to our options and flavor for a bit more instead of just being brought in line with the new edition without a major model release to go with it.

I really don't see a reason to take ANY of our units in a Big Waagh, unless you wanted to a wurrgog for his mask, or a cheap Boar unit. Ardboys are awesome now. And make a terrific Anvil. Megaboss on Mawcrusher is an amazing Hammer. Throw in a sloggoth and some Kruelboyz ranged units and the list starts to write itself.

I ran double Idol, and there is a tournament report earlier in the thread. As a Drakkfoot player, I feel that you need them, or big stabbaa to get quality rend in your list. I prefer the Idols due to their durability, especially when backed up by the various healing we have at our disposal. Rememberthat they havethe Bonesplitterz keyword so they can benefit from most of our spells and abilities. The bonus to casting that they give is also huge. I could live with Wardokks losing the priest tab. It always felt like an after thought. However, having to choose between dancing or casting was an even bigger blow. And not one I was expecting. That being said, I agree. If and destruction Faction should have a priest, it should be Bonesplitterz. Come to think of it... I don't think there is a single priest in the entire grand alliance. There is something wrong about that.

Of course it would be the French...

Good read. I never heard of anyone crazy enough to try running a big rukk in normal points games, let alone finding any kind of success with with it. Lol. My 2nd edition list was caster heavy Drakkfoot of course, with buffs to a Rogue Idol as a distraction carnifex giving it a 2+ rerollable/5++ with some healing back up. Plus it had great mortal wound output from spells, a brick of arrowboys, and some Boar Boys for objectives, and big Stabbas for giggles. I will miss our old book. The irony is I really like 3rd edition rules. Many of the changes hurt us a bit. But they made a certain amount of sense. I was excited playing games with it. Now after seeing our book.... not so much. As the first book out, it's going to be a long edition.

I like the concepts of PTG3, but I do have some issues when I look at it from a league style campaign perspective. 1. There are no victory conditions. It is completely open ended. The original AoS PtG was a race to a set Glory point Total. This one makes no mention of how it is intended to end. Without a set victory condition or set time limit, these things tend to fizzle out over time. 2. It is too self contained. Kind of related to the first issue. But there are only 2 ways you opponent can impact you; casualties and limiting the points you earn. There is more potential for disruption, like sacking or taking over territory. You get trounced? Just play a few a few games against some random and you will be ahead of your opponent in the next rematch. 3. Outposts. Don't mention it without covering what they do. I think there will be some campaign supplements that might address these issues. Lots of potential, but ultimately it's incomplete.

That is why my Idol lists use Emerald Lifeswarm. I was healing a d3 every turn with it, a potential 3d3 from the Wardokks, and another d3 from the prayer. The health swings I during a game were impressive. I could also return dead Orcs on a 3+ if the Idol was topped off. We no longer have the prayer, and the Wardokks can only do one action a round, but the potential healing is mostly still there.

Lol, I never thought about Wurrgog spam. I picked up the Underworlds one. I might have to run 2 myself. Probably something like this... Sub Faction: Drakkfoot HQ Wurrgog Prophet 150 (master of magic, glowing tattoos, warcry)** Wurrgog Prophet 150 (amulet of destiny, power of the were-boar) Wardokk 85 (levitate)** Wardokk 85 ( squiggly Curse)** Battleline 10 Moreboys 145** 10 Moreboys 145** 10 Moreboys 145 Other 5 Boarboy Maniacs 145 Behemoth Rogue Idol 430* Rogue Idol 430* Endless Spells Emerald Life Swarm 60 Battalions: * Alpha beast pack, Warlord** Total: 1990 Basically the same list I had before, but with 5 less Maniacs and a wurrgog instead. Lol.

I agree with your concerns. I think at the end we will be a B+ tier with Icebone spam. Better than the likes of Beastmen and Gitz, but A tier and better will absolutely spank us. Unlike you, I am very resistant to changing my Warclan. I have been a Drakkfoot player from the beginning. Paying nearly a quarter of my points for the freaking Battalions to do so. But at least they were useful. In the Kunning Rukk dominated landscape, I was the wierdo running Kopp Rukk and Drakkfoot. Ramping up my casting bonuses so that I could cast the Drakkfoot spell and even summon in an incarnate Elemental of Beasts. When the elemental died, it triggers various army abilities. I could fight 4 times in my turn with a unit of boarboy Maniacs when everything worked out with additional attacks from the Wurrgog, the spell, and their own rule. It wasn't top tier by any stretch, but it was extremely different, and full of character. 2nd edition changed a lot, but I could play in a similar style, and Drakkfoot was still very viable and in some ways improved. Even with 3rd edition, although we took some hits, they were hits every army took. At the same time, we had some great wins in the priest tag on Wardokks, Unleash hell, and rally. I was excited to play, and had a blast in the games that I got to play. Now my Warclan has been reduced to a single sentence. While no wards against my attacks sound nice, it is limited. My mortal wound output doesn't come from actual attacks, so ward saves will work against them. Big Stabbas and rogue Idols are the only rend 2 options we have to punch through saves. The only other way to leverage their ability is through weight of attacks, and that is a challenge with the new rules and point hikes. The fun and flavor is gone, and the play style that I have enjoyed since the first battle tome dropped is on life support. I saw the stormcast book review today, and they faired about the same. The new models got a lot of love, and everything else was stripped down. My concern is that GW is not known for sticking with their guns. Especially when they seem to want to tone things down.. They always change direction mid edition. Especially if it is something brand new and they want to push the models. Here we are, the first release of the new edition. Every other army has their full rules at their disposal, and the power creep will only go up from the low bar we set. Hell, my 2nd army is FEC. I really don't want a new battle tome at this point if it means getting this kind of treatment.

Yes. There are several YouTube videos where they cover all the rules.

Yup, figured as much. So it's really no better than it was before, as only Icebone deals mortal wounds off of actual attacks.

Odd question... can a Drakkfoot Wurrgog even use his ward save against self inflicted wounds caused by mask? The rule says "attacks" so I am thinking that they do, but italso means that ward saves can be taken against it by my opponents as well. Which also leads me to believe that wounds caused by spells don't count for the Drakkfoot rule either...which is a bummer, as how else were Drakkfoot dealing mortal wounds?

Arrowboys are 145 now, Wardokks are 80, wierdnob is 100. You can still run the same list, but it puts you right at 2k.

Yeah, a better comparison would be 10 Maniacs with a shaman behind them giving the same buff (+1 to hit). 8 would make it into combat due to coherency. I will say what I said on the other thread. I am not disputing that Icebone Boar spam can be effective. My main issue is that it is pretty much all we have now. We had the ability to get exploding 6's in the last book. Now it is army wide and that is great. But it came with a hit to a lot of our bonus attacks, our casting, and our ranged effectiveness. Our options across the board have been cut, and those that remain were either nerfed or remained status quo. So when people say how much better we are now, I take exception. GW ran us over with a truck and then were kind enough to hand us a crutch.

I was routinely getting a 4+ casting bonus, was casting 5 spells a turn, and dispelling 6 thanks to the Drakkfoot commandability. Each caster had utility and damage potential. I was going toe to toe with the big boy casters. Now Mork's Boney Bits relies on being up close to an enemy monster before providing any bonuses, and is therefore unreliable. I also have to choose between getting my casting bonus from the Wardokks or casting a spell now. Before I could do both and do a prayer as well. Regarding Icebone boars. Here is the test... Before the nerf, I could take a unit of 30 arrowboys and a wardokk for brutal beast spirits and on average deal 22 regular wounds and an additional 15 mortal wounds on top of that if curse went off. Show me how the piggies surpass that.

So... here is my first draft of my new list post battletome. Sub Faction: Drakkfoot HQ Wurrgog Prophet 150 (master of magic, glowing tattoos, warcry)** Wardokk 85 (levitate)** Wardokk 85 ( power of the were-boar)** Battleline 10 Moreboys 145** 10 Moreboys 145** 10 Moreboys 145** Other 10 Boarboy Maniacs 290** Behemoth Rogue Idol 430** Rogue Idol 430 Endless Spells Emerald Life Swarm 60 Battalions: Battle Regiment** Total: 1985 It's a 2 drop army. Idols give +1 to cast a piece, and with the Wardokks they can bring my Wurrgog up to a max of +3 to cast to supercharge his fist of gork. Against solo models he can do a staring contest and hedge his bets with glowing tattoos. The Rogue Idols are also a decent source of damage. The life swarm, helps heal up the Idols, and in a pinch the Wardokks can too. Wardokk are a sad shell of what they used to be, but they at least provide utility. Moreboys are screens, objective holders, and can slap fight if need be. Lastly the Maniacs are my fast unit, and should pack a decent punch with exploding 6's. It's no where near as good as it was, but I am making the best of a bad situation without giving in and playing Icebone Boar spam.

I was looking what a group or two of 4 could do in a Drakkfoot. I really wish I could still take them in squads of 6 so that they could get exploding 6's, but those days are gone. They will be crucial in a Drakkfoot as they are the only melee damage we have that can get around strong saves.... unless they are stacking +1's which is a thing. What I don't like is that it's only 8 wounds on a 6 up save to wipe it out. 160 points, 12 attacks, averaging 8 hits, 5 wounds, dealing 10 damage if unsaved. It's been frustrating.... with the nerfs to our Battleline I am now forced to take 3 units of Savage Orruks Moreboys. Either way that is close to 500 points in units that won't really do much. Not being able to take boarboys as Battleline hurts, as I now have to take them in addition to my unit tax in order to have ANY fast elements in my list. Speed is crucial in this edition, as you can fall behind quickly. Before you know it half your list is spent before you have even decided how you are going to actually win.

Look, I get it. I said that we weren't terrible, and that we had gained some things. I even said that we have gone from an Arrow boy dominant army to a Boar dominant one. Yes, double hits on 6's is powerful. But take into account that we could do that before with a maniac wierdnob and not be limited to just melee attacks, have lost our bonus attacks for large squads, plus the limitations imposed by unit coherency and it feels less exciting. It definitely helps compensate, but it doesn't seem like a net win to me.. Again, msu boars are the natural winner here. Let's talk about the impact of what we lost, as I feel that they were not insignificant. You say that we lacked punch. I disagree. We had punch, but you had to min max it and build your list around it. The first was arrowboys. At the start of 3rd edition I could take a unit of 30 arrowboys and a wardokk, fire 90 shots, wound on 4's thanks to brutal beast spirits, for roughly 45 hits, 22 wounds, and if curse went off 15 mortal wounds. I consider that a punch! Now the same squad gets 15 wounds if it is bonegrinz, 10 if it is some other Faction. And we are paying 435 points for that out put now. We also had damage output via our casting. I always had 4+ casters in my Drakkfoot from 1st edition forward. Not only did we have top notch utility, but damage as well. In 2nd edition, one wardokk had the mask, and could cast breath of gork, another had kunning beast spirits and the option to fireball, the last had the warcry which was both utility and damage. The Wurrgog had brutal beast spirits and his innate spell. All had utility and mortal wound output. Beginning of 3rd you added prayers to the mix, and added even more utility. Yes, warcry is still a great spell, but they took away its damage and a nerf is a nerf. Squiggly Curse sucked, I never used it despite being caster heavy, yet they let us keep it... also with a minor nerf. Bonekrusha has been relegated to headrakka. Kunning beast spirits is gone. Yes mystic shield does the same thing, but having two units +1 to save was a nice option. Breath of Gork was an awesome utility and tactical spell, and it is completely gone. Brutal beast spirits is nerfed and renamed, and lost it's most important function of buffing arrowboys to hit rolls. As for the new spell.... it's fine.... good even. But again boars are the clear winner here. Overall we lost on our spell Lore. Sure, a wurrgog can still Fist like no one's business, but our options and utility went down. So yes, icebone Boar units stock have risen high, but we could kind of do the same thing before with the curse prayer and not be limited to just melee. It slso came at a cost to 2 other styles of play. And that is the problem. We have always had a clear winner in our books. Kunning rukk, Arrowboy bricks, etc... I am sorry, if you love ham spam lists, then I am happy for you. It looks legit. However I would rather have multiple strong and valid options, instead of just one clear option. It also seems like every edition we lose a little more flavor and character. Like how they replaced battletome battalions with generic core ones, each version becomes more and more homogenized. But that is just my initial gut reaction. You had early access it seems, and must of play tested. If you were rolling up Tzeentch, Daughters of Khaine, and Slaves to Darkness with green eggs and spam, then I sincerely would love to hear about your experiences. Edit: ******... I just noticed that the Wardokks dance is now instead of casting or dispelling, and you no longer can do both. Man they hammered them big time. Even the Maniac wierdnob lost his reroll. Wardokk's were the engines in my list. This really, really, hurts