DoctorPerils

Ogor mercenaries sounds like an awesome idea! I take it it's going back to the manhunter tropes. I wonder if Hrothgar will be able to be allied in? Perhaps people will be able to expand on Radukar's ogor guards?

I'd personally gamble on Grungnids for this October, though what I'd really love is a grungnid Vs Skaven box set in the vein of Shadowspear, with completely new minis for each of the two factions, which I can't see happening before 2022

I'm not sure we should really be considering Space Marines soup (they're all the same greater faction with essentially the same model stylings and playstyles) I'm not sure we should consider SBGL as soup either, they're pretty much Vampire Counts minus nighthaunt and FEC (and the addition of Neferata) - it's not like deathrattle had much of an identity outside of vampire counts/SBGL Also, I think the most vehement arguments against souping KO and FS is more on a thematic level, not the support level for this supposed duardin superfaction - though I'm not saying that much hasn't been said on that question

In a way, the new Kruleboyz are a relief, it is definitely support for the Warclans as a whole (though I've heard some mention that they may have their own battletome which may access Big Waaagh). It currently doesn't seem like there's going to be any support for Ironjawz or Bonesplittaz, though I cross my fingers that may change. Someone mentioned them bridging the visual gap between the two pre-existing factions of Warclans, which seems to be the case. It remains to be seen if they bridge the thematic gap but I remain hopeful about that too I still remain to be convinced a duardin soup would be made coherent and cohesive in a similar way (though those hopes are up ATM for me); and I'm definitely not convinced it'd be a good thing to make soup separated along fantasy race lines like a duardin one would be (Warclans with Kruleboyz at least presents the opportunity to have gobs and troggoths) However, what's gotten me most excited is the implied presence of Chaos Dwarves - if they were to soup them with S2D or anything else I'd be fine with that, they definitely seem to have a cult following, but not certain there's enough of one to make a stand alone battletome... But yeee Boy, Furnace Kings on their way 🤞

I could also imagine these guys referenced in a WHU warband, in a similar way that Slambo was, leaving the full AoS faction (or StD subfaction) free to be full on big haut assyrians

That actually sounds pretty cool 😃 not necessarily the road I'd have picked to play up with the Fyreslayers, but it's thematically coherent at least. In fact, it needn't be Gazul worshippers, it could always be some other death faction who become lawful good after nagash's absence?

Fireslayers with phoenix temples sounds cool to me as keywords currently work I think I'd still prefer to soup Furnace Kings/Legions of Azgorh into S2D, but the idea isn't without merit

Honestly, yes the change to the faction's identity would be extremely jarring - especially as this hobby isn't just about creating your own models and lore, but interacting with official lore. I've been working through the Plague Garden audiobook for some months, and every character and narrator repeating "only the faithful" every ten minutes, it becomes really grating; and I had a similar problem with Soul Wars. If you shoehorn in that kind of stuff for the Kharadrons, it will definitely feel like a step back if not a spit in the face. From what I've understood, some people still feel bad about the Ironjawz being lumped together with Bonesplittaz, precisely because they lost a part of their "we are superior to other greenskinz" mentality. But it's not just a question of _losing_ identity, it's also a question of blocking off the potential expansion on identity and themes. Can I just say I still haven't seen anybody give a reason that it should be specifically Duardin who are targeted for souping up together? Like, DoK and IDK actually have joint enmity of Teclis, both reside in Ulgu, both like scales and have spiky swirls and waves in their iconography - thematically and visually, they are _way_ closer than Kharadron and Fyreslayers, or Ironjawz and Bonesplittaz. Plus it's not like we don't have enough aelven factions. Or how about DoK mixed with Vampires ? Both love blood and wear a mix of spiky gothic armour and pale bare skin? I could go on with more wacky combinations, especially as I like AoS to feel like its own thing rather than weighed down by WHFB's baggage EDIT: @Neverchosen you say that there is no evidence of soup's getting fewer releases than stand alone factions, then say in the same breath that most of their battletomes get the same amount of support as most stand alone factions at the very most - that means that where both constituent factions may get a hero and a piece of terrain, they end up getting a single hero and a piece of terrain for the whole battletome: on average, that's fewer releases. You then go on to give the notable exception of Gloomspite Gitz, but say yourself that a whole faction of them (spiderfangs) got nothing out of the souping. So the way I read it, your post essentially contradicts your point - am I missing something?

So, I will say that "souping" armies as a method to reduce the number of product lines to maintain is a good argument. While I'm not sure we're actually at the limit of what they can do, yet (they've released several armies during AoS 2 after all), I do agree that we should see a general trend of stabilising or reducing the number of factions we already have. Another argument in favour of souping I've seen in this thread is that it can give the hobbyist more army theming opportunities and diversity. There are several reasons this argument doesn't convince me: - this can already be done through the use of keywords, subfactions, and grand alliance allies. While I agree the system as it stands is far from perfect (the grand alliances and 1/4 allies rules are unevenly distributed at best), this is more of a keyword and specific rules design problem, not faction/model line design problem. Ergo, souping two or three lines together won't fix the problem, only fixing the rules in question will. - creativity won't be expanded by GW choosing which lines to merge together - cutting 2/3 of a factions lore to stick it in with two other factions reduces the identity of each of their Factions, without in turn improving the identification of the merged factions So, with that said - I'm not against souping certain factions, especially if it can mean more regular updates in the long term. There are however conditions to that for me: - this should mean that the factions _truly_ get more regular updates: so far, I don't believe we've seen this pan out, whether we're talking about CoS, OWc, OMt, skaven, etc. So far, Gitz got a proper release, but even then only for two of the three factions/subfactions. Conversely, you get the likes of death armies, Slaanesh, and Lumineth who get big releases (and fairly regularly) as soon as they're spun out on their own. I remain to be convinced that souping will really increase faction update frequency - the soups must be thematically and visually coherent out of the box. Quick reminder here: your fantasy race isn't a theme Culture, organisation, influences, and yes, even gameplay can be considered part of the theme, but having once belonged to the same battletome in a defunct game and setting really isn't. (Also remember that thematic mirrors, like fire/ice, dark/light, are still thematically coherent) So, WRT duardin battletomes, where does that leave us? Well, they've both had more model releases than dispossessed who are already in a soup: sure, that's only really one or two small waves since the beginning of AoS, but at least it's more than what dispossessed/ironweld, ogors or skaven have had. They aren't particularly thematically or visually coherent out of the box - certain sub-factions include a bit of both, and a skilled hobbyist might be able to make them look like they go together, but that could just as well be the case with any other two random factions. Both factions' themes are absolutely wide enough to welcome new additions or even repatriated factions of similar themes (ironweld including the humans could fit decently with Kharadron; you could easily imagine flame lizards, dragons, fire giants, ur-gold avatars of Grimnir, even armoured or be-shielded duardin with the Fyreslayers...) They can already be souped in game through the use of specific keywords, and you could already model them to look good as a singular army Basically, I'm not convinced by a single argument in favour of souping them, but can see several in favour of _not_ souping them... And this is coming from someone who could actually be really tempted by an all-duardin army!

I think there's another aspect relevant to this discussion that has yet to be bought up, and that's the design language of the models themselves, what assembles the models into a singular faction. Many "soup" factions do this well (Ogors all are big, wear trousers, a gut plate, some furs and little else; the mono-god chaos factions have big divergences between the daemons and mortals, and yet there are big design cues bringing them together). Others... just don't: though I love Cities of Sigmar conceptually (though really wish they weren't named after a single Order god...), freeguild and dispossessed don't look like they belong together out of the box; Bonesplitterz look like they'd fit better with some of the savage warcry warbands and chaos marauders than with Ironjawz, as they wear the same bone trinkets and rawhide clothes. Fyreslayers and Kharadron lake any type of visual narrative coherence, and neither share all that much with Dispossessed for that matter - to me, that's yet another reason to not merge them under a faction heading. Instead, I'd rather they languished separately for another couple of years with no new releases, and updated dispossessed to fit into the renaissance theme that freeguild have (and do the same for the other CoS subfactions). If you absolutely 100% had to soup some of the dwarves together, make it Kharadron and Ironweld, since both have the steampunk theme. On the other hand, Fyreslayers have a sort of celtic aesthetic to their helmets and body paint, which might (ironically) fit in better visually with the likes of Wanderers (the old Wood Elf models). Bear in mind I'm not advocating for any of those options (apart from renaissance dwarves which would look rad!) - I just think they could make more sense than an all-dwarves tome, and be more interesting a set of combinations to boot.

Hi, I don't know if this is the best place to post this, as it's not a rumour as much as a thought experiment. So, with the final Direchasm Warbands on the verge of release, I thought it would be fun to speculate what may be coming for season 5 of Underworlds - that is of course supposing there will be a season 5, and that it follows a similar pattern to previous seasons. first of all, after two seasons in the beastgrave, we'll probably be moving to a new location. Having already had seasons in Shyish and Ghur, I doubt we'll be going back to those, or indeed to Ghyran, which is too close thematically to the previous ones. I'd like to imagine that any new season might take place in a Realm that saw big changes during the events of Broken Realms, as it feels like they'd have the most narrative opportunities: having set aside Shyish and Ghur, that leaves me to suspect it could take place in Ulgu or Chamon - either could have further links with potential warband ideas. Aqshy is also possible, but I see it as less likely. WRT the warbands: So, looking through the warband ideas, I can see a pattern emerging - mad scientists and/or dwarves: to me, that points straight to the possibility of Chamon. What with the destruction of most of its realmgates, it is in the most precarious situation of the Realms; and we know that Grungni has set himself the task of recreating a form of the Khazalid Empire. These are both very interesting plotlines that could be explored through Warhammer Underworlds, and they both give rise to potential "bottle episode locations": for example, a sub-realm at the edges of Chamon isolated by the destruction of the gates; or an ancient ruined Karak of the Khazalid Empire, that a Duardin warband is trying to take back for Grungni; or of course it could be a combination of both. Going off the last point, here's my wishlist of warbands to take part: Grungni's Dispossessed (starter set) - Themed around exploring the ruins of the old Karak: an iron breaker or hammerer, a miner, a ranger, with a rune priest as their leader Skryre Skaven (starter set) - Themed as the remaining skaven that had taken over the ancient hold, or simply on the lookout for more warpstone, yes-yes. A warlock engineer leads a gang with some kind of artillery piece (needing two adjacent models to fire), a globardier and/or jezzail sniper, and perhaps one or more basic skaven warriors Frankenstein warband - themed around a mad scientists necromancer on searching for alchemical enhancers for their work; with them, a Frankenstein monster who is the heavy hitter and is essentially the only one who can be bought back from death and enhanced multiple times, but who can probably not take objectives. With them an Igor and a couple of other expendable attendants Kruel Boyz tasked by chorfs to retrieve artefacts... or simply trying to stop the Duardin from retaking their homeland out of spite. Until Saturday's preview, I have no idea what shape this warband could have. Stormcast Eternals. Why? I dunno, they just seem to be around a lot 🤷‍♂️ A spear wielder and a paladin of somekind like the ones we've already seen seem like a given, but again, wait until saturday. Vyrkos warband. Why? Pets seem to be in at the moment, and Death need extra warbands. A werewolf leading dire wolves and bats, similar to Mollog. No idea how to theme them though An Irongutt couple - like, literally, Ogor and Wife, looking for the next bit of meat to put in the hot pot. Both heavy hitters, could perhaps go gold when killing an enemy through team work. And finally... though I'd love to see a bit of Umbraneth and Furnace Kings, my gut tells me we're not ready for them, and we may only see them in Season 6. I'll go with Order of Azyr. A Witch Hunter, a Vampire Hunter, and a Rat Catcher (and his trusty dog!) walk into a bar... Could these be of each of the Cities of Sigmar races?

Chaos Dwarves are what you'd get if Khazad Dum submitted to the Balrog and enslaved Azog, then fought for Sauron in the final battle with fire-daemon-lobbing cannon powered by possessed steam engines besieging Minas Tirith. It's a faction you'd hate, but also love to hate, just like the Uruk Hai And that to me just sounds like awesome personified

Also letter "N" forming THON[DIA] These are shaping up quite nicely Also, very happy there are indeed battalion boxes coming for Kragnos if it is indeed the contorted epitome, fiends and seekers for £55, I'll definitely be grabbing it alongside the Twins box if I can

Yeah very disappointed, was hoping for a Slaanesh mortals battalion

Well the rumours did say that Hobgobs traded weapons with Chaos Dwarves, so it's entirely possible that the grenade is of dwarvish design and being lobbed by a hobgob Plus Hobgob lobba sounds just silly enough that it could be an official name

Thanks - unfortunately I'm on mobile ^^'

Sorry, can't get rid of the quotes 🤷‍♂️ I'd quite like to see some factions smushed together, but I'll be honest, I really hope they don't give us the same old race-specific battletomes: let us have a steamheads battletome with humans and dwarves, a pirates battletome with druchii and vampires, idoneth with sea-based beasts of chaos, pestilens and maggotkin as armies of the plague... Give us more cosmopolitan mixes like CoS, with a thematic through-line, not a fantasy-race based one

I noticed that too - that's absolutely reminiscent of Nurgle models, the Death Guard are covered in them. But then, the rest of the picture looks nothing like something Nurgle would... Plus from the context I'm imagining it's from the new boxset. Perhaps leeches on the boglings? 🤷‍♂️

Ooh, I wonder if we could be seeing cross-GA alliances for hobgobs and furnace kings 😍

Some people seem to want to paint Kragnos in Orky colours, just thought it could help with the visualisation, even if it's such a quick photoshop thing 🤷‍♂️

Here's a quick photoshop into green and red of Kragnos

I think the answer should be Squig Red

It would depend on the colour of all the models - are the daemonettes and mortals going to be wearing a that kind of teal and metallic purple? Honestly, I like the look of the bare sand, so perhaps a zandri dust with seraphim sepia wash, perhaps some brown or grey for the rocks too, and perhaps a (yellow/green) grass tuft here and there? Are you going with any kind of theme for your army? That could also help make choices

That's why I tried to say that the rumours about the copyright infringement isn't to do with the title: it would be about the contents of the text and artwork. On the other hand, your point about the website still being up and so on is well made, so I won't belabour the argument

Unless I'm very much mistaken (I don't rule that possibility out ) you don't copyright a term, you trademark it. Copyright infringement is about having sentences and artwork and such being copied, or even just slightly too similar, not just a few terms here and there. Mind you, I don't disagree about your point about incompetence / system failure, but realise that a copyright infringement would also be a sign of incompetence. The reason I don't believe it's just a stock error or shipping problem, is precisely because otherwise there'd be no reason to not just produce a new batch - by all accounts, this was a licence to print money. (on another subject, why did you quote my post but respond to someone else who was claiming the copyrighted element was the title? I know that the following wasn't your intent, but it does sort of feel like a jab at me ) Would that stop them from getting a new card supplier to produce a new batch?