Sorrow
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Posts posted by Sorrow
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@AngryPanda It never made sense lore wise for Slaaneshi to be Summoning Faction Number 1. After years of reading GW fiction, Tzeentch and Nurgle are far more "Summoning gods" then Slaanesh or Khorne. Which does not mean that Slaaneshi and Khornate daemons do not march alongside mortals, of course they do, but it means that followers of Tzeentch are more likely to summon daemons and followers of Nurgle will spread diseases turning people into daemons.
@MothmanDraws A excellent post, that is precisely how I think the Four Chaos gods should play.
Anyway, I have been tinkering with some lists in preparation for a local tournament, I will be blunt and say that I weep now for our second wave points. A lot of my games involved usage of Slickblades and now they are simply far too expensive plus Hellstriders are now competing with them and are in some aspects better.
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32 minutes ago, Enoby said:
The one thing I hope GW takes from this isn't "no one likes Slaanesh", but rather "we should have tried harder on the rules side".
Hopefully, in the future (after others have their books), GW revisits us and has someone really passionate about Slaanesh write it.
Sadly, I am afraid "no one likes Slaanesh" will be GW conclusion.
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17 minutes ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:
Getting opinions from local players/store owners seems to be corroborated by the opinions others here have shared in regards to their own store owners. We're a beautiful army that no one wants to buy because our rules don't spark interest, double that up with anyone wanting a fast and punchy army would sooner pick up IDK which is also a beautiful army and super meta, or FEC who are just dirt cheap to collect. We loose out on new players because our most playable units aren't easy to collect on top of our rules outside of a few heroes being bland and/or bad.
Great post all around but I wanted to comment on this particular part.
Games Workshop will continue to produce beautiful miniatures which will have good rules plus very interesting lore.
Soulblight being the most recent example and I have no doubt other factions will get similar treatment.
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We already had our big release and time in the spotlight. I think that our most recent new points will be final for a long time.
There are numerous other factions in AoS that are in dire need of massive model updates and large additions.
In Grand Alliance Chaos, Skaven and even Maggotkin need great attention.
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1 minute ago, Enoby said:
Yeah, you're very correct to point it out.
I have no clue how popular this Slaanesh release was. I saw a lot of it on social media when it came out and our LE book sold out in a few hours (compared to days for Lumineth). Sigvald also sold out, which at the time was unusual for AOS release. They were also the bestseller on Wayland Games, which isn't always the case for new AoS releases.
On the other hand, I saw so many people say "I would have got Slaanesh, but then I saw Lumineth/SBGL" - the Slaanesh models didn't have their time in the sun. Their hype window did not cover their buy window, and before they could be bought a load of new stuff game out and took the spotlight off them. Also, I have heard a report from one game shop that, in their store, they sold really poorly and they blamed the rules. Of course, that's just one store - may have been that there were no Slaanesh players in the area.
So I really don't know how well they did. I think we are more popular than before - I can't prove it, but that'd be my guess. However, we are nowhere near as popular as we could have been due to factors totally within GW's control. I get that Covid got in the way, but if they had delayed further model reveals until after the release, given us proper rules previews, and pointed us better then we could have had an incredibly popular release.
If I were to guess now, I'd say we might see a new single model or so a few years in the future, but I think we missed our best chance to shine.
I spoke with a owner of two game shops, he said the same thing, that they sold very poorly and immediately blamed the rules. He is in regular contact with a few other shops across Europe and they really do not paint a pretty picture of Hedonite sales according to him. Of course, it could be that these shops just have no Slaaneshi players in the area, as you already said.
Covid is hollow excuse, take a look at Soulblight and Lumineth.
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1 minute ago, Enoby said:
I agree with this, though the most unfortunate thing - and the thing that disappoints me the most - is that I think we would have had that high skill ceiling if we kept our original points with the new rules.
All the stuff I wrote about our benefits in AoS 3 was true, and remains true. We do benefit from AoS 3 a lot and a lot of it makes up for our lack of synergy in book, imo.
What's so frustrating was that these benefits have been neutered because of these massive increases.
We were so close to being a fantastic finesse army with a large toolbox which benefitted from our summoning (improved by MSU), hero-monsters, addition to our spell lore, addition to our artifacts, smaller board sizes.
That's what hurts - in my opinion, we were close to having the best era of Slaanesh in AoS. But then the points happened...
The tragedy is that this beautiful Slaaneshi release could have brought in a lot of new players to the fold. In the long run, it would mean everything, from the possible new Hedonite releases to Emperor Children codex in WH40K.
A lot of people who wanted to jump in our faction when the second release came were scared of by rules and now this points increase is a final nail in the coffin. Many of those potential new Slaanesh players are going to other factions, Soulblight and Lumineth are a popular choices it appears.
So if GW decides that this Hedonite release was not worth it financially, that is going to have very negative consequences for entire Slaaneshi range across entire GW franchise in the future.
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And lack of playtesting data does not explain our systematic disastrous points increases, see Soulblight and Lumineth.
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User @Cambyses made a excellent post on nature of playing Hedonites, which I will repost.
"Really comprehensive post & I do agree on most accounts, however I do feel the need to discuss this last point a bit. Having a difficult or high skill floor faction is fine, and in fact should be expected from something like Slaanesh, but the faction should also have a high skill ceiling payoff to match, which I don't think is quite there when compared to other factions with similar levels of skill expression. I have a buddy who plays Blades of Khorne who is probably the best player in our groups has expressed similar frustrations before, where he would have to work much harder and be more meticulous with positional plays just to get the same pay-off as a easier or better faction, and while I don't think Hedonites are nearly as bad as BoK, I do get somewhat similar vibes. "
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23 hours ago, Golub87 said:
I am sorry, but we were overpriced to begin with. I have to admit that this forced positivity is even more grating than the nerfs themselves.
GW dropped the ball hard. Was it intentional maliciousness or gross incompetence I really can't say, but it was one of the two.
A very bad thing happened. Sweeping that under the rug or adopting "wait and see" stance for the umptheenth time in GW history is not really going to help. This is not the first time this has happened and I really feel that community should stop stiffing its feelings on the matter. Expressing anger and disappointment is both healthy and cathartic, especially in communal setting.
There is a point at which looking for silver lining and insisting that everyone should see it is toxic in of itself.
I had a small suspicion that we were written for AoS 2 and that our points would increase in AoS 3.
But that Slaanesh would get the highest price increase of all factions is absolutely tragicomic.
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Thus far, things are looking very promising for us. Huge thank you to @Enoby for his detailed analysis.
I just hope our rules were written for AoS 3. It would be funny if we found out that our rules were actually written for AoS 2 and we get a point increase across some units that are already priced too high, looking at Slaangors/Painbringers/Twinsouls.
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1 hour ago, CeleFAZE said:
Hearing the reinforcement point rumor, it finally makes sense to me how the new edition could be a buff for us where it wouldn't also elevate the strength of existing powerhouse armies. Most of our units are optimized for running at either minimum size, or one increment up in the case of fiends. The only exception to this is daemonettes, which I imagine would bypass the restrictions by being summoned. This gives us a huge edge in objective play compared to other armies, and the larger number of enemy units being fielded give us ample opportunities for depravity generation. It also forces really difficult list building decisions for currently strong shooting armies, as they tend to rely on force multipliers applied to large units of shooters, which are now going to be either smaller, or a single deathstar. By contrast our shooting has no such limitation, and our buffs are largely debuffs that target an enemy unit with something that acts as a force multiplier for us, effectively allowing us to utilize multiple units as though they were one, where other armies don't have the same capability.
Combined with the changes to endless spells, wheels of excruciation is going to be an incredibly strong tool for us to generate depravity and in general cause damage across the board. As we're immune to the damage it does we can simply cascade it across the battle, and with artifacts like the enrapturing circlet on something like an exalted bladebringer we can keep the opponent locked into a meatgrinder dealing constant mortal wounds, with the bladebringer potentially healing every hero phase between heroic actions and born of damnation. The mesmerizing mirror could be added on top of this, punishing the enemy with more mortal wounds for retreating, and otherwise having more opportunities to snipe out heroes. Granted this is all dependent on our ability to cast and maintain the endless spells, but we have decent tools for that with glutos and the epitome.
I immediately retract my doom and gloom regarding 3rd ed. This looks like it could be great for us.
I am not going to get on hype train just yet, but I think we would be a real powerhouse in AoS 3 by what we have seen thus far.
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I think this is new, I do not see it here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/broken-realms/
Anyway, Sigvald and Glutos went against each other, that is why no Hedonites reached the city.
Story: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/GoOdPej7qcXOKbTT.pdf
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I really doubt that they will touch faction specific Endless Spells and looking at the new rules, thus far, I am quite happy with them.
Let us hope GW stays on this course.
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The only politics I endorse are traditional conservative Slaaneshi values.
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2 hours ago, Cambyses said:
Long time Slaanesh player (since the first GHB) but first time poster here - hello to the wider Hedonites community.
Really comprehensive post & I do agree on most accounts, however I do feel the need to discuss this last point a bit. Having a difficult or high skill floor faction is fine, and in fact should be expected from something like Slaanesh, but the faction should also have a high skill ceiling payoff to match, which I don't think is quite there when compared to other factions with similar levels of skill expression. I have a buddy who plays Blades of Khorne who is probably the best player in our groups has expressed similar frustrations before, where he would have to work much harder and be more meticulous with positional plays just to get the same pay-off as a easier or better faction, and while I don't think Hedonites are nearly as bad as BoK, I do get somewhat similar vibes.
I can only say thank you for writing this. Nothing more can I add.
Also, your models are beautiful, Glutos and Slickblades especially!
Welcome!
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Just now, KK9T said:
Radukar is great value for his CA and a unit of Dire Wolves built in to his points cost.
My thanks!
Lauka Vai?
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@Neil Arthur Hotep@swarmofseals@Honk
My sincere thanks!
Final question, thoughts on Lauka Vai and Radukar the Beast?
I ask because I am planning a order, so I am gauging which way to go.
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Those rules do suggest that AoS 3. rules could lean our way, let us hope we stay on that course.
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Question from a new Soulblight player!
What are your thoughts on rules of Kritza and Lady Annika?
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2 hours ago, Enoby said:
I very much agree. I would say, from what we've seen, we're looking considerably more interesting in AoS 3 even without knowing all of the rules. We can generate command points like crazy and have some great heroes and monsters.
I think Dexcessa's already gone up a lot in my estimations, and Synessa may follow depending on commands (if we have some great hero only commands then Synessa may be a fantastic buff piece).
The initial changes do suggest that AoS 3. rules could favor us, but until we have seen them in full, I will remain cautiously optimistic.
Also, I suspect that AoS 3. will see a lot of new heroes and monsters for existing and new factions, as such we will need to gauge where we are truly.
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Anyone who played more than 10 games of Age of Sigmar should with a 1 minute glance over Slaangor warscroll see that it is absolute garbage. Which is a great shame since the models are beautiful and the lore describes them as mighty indeed.
That a Games Workshop rules team, who write this for living, could say "It is okay" when taking a final glance at Slaangor warscroll speaks more of either utter incompetence or as many rumors already imply, a deliberate desire on part of some writers to see Hedonite faction as weak as possible. Lack of play-testing data does not explain our rules, for Daughters of Khaine, Lumineth and Soulblight prove that rules could be written properly in a Covid-19 era.
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10 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:
@Sorrow Mind giving a brief but detailed description of how Gordrakk & Skragrott play into it?
Gordrakk stands up to Kragnos, but gets defeated in a fight. Kragnos spares him and they all march towards the Excelsis.
Destruction side does not really factor in Slaaneshi side of story that much.
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14 minutes ago, Carnith said:
Maybe we will finally get an update to lore in our next book... in 2-3 years. While we have a model designer that absolutely loves us as a faction, but lore writers and designers don't know what to do with us. I know we're not the good guys, but perhaps the literal children of Slaanesh should've maybe had a win against the witch hunters or against the city.
None of the other named characters is a waste too, made it seem like a build up that led to no where. We could've had a new host or perhaps new subhosts for Glutos and Sigvald.
Our models are beautiful. But our lore is simply a disaster. Even famous online reviewers who covered our new battletome already said it made little sense, now with Broken Realms ending, it makes even less sense.
The Twins get wasted by a family of witch/vampire hunters in a completely tragicomic way. The only thing that the Twins should have said "We will get you next time!" and magic of Saturday morning cartoon villains would be complete.
Also, despite the fact that we got two BR short stories where it appears Hedonites armies are moving towards Excelsis, literally nobody shows up. Nobody. Where are Sigvald and Glutos?
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AoS 2 - Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion
in Hedonites of Slaanesh
Posted
I played a few games with the most recent rule update, I have to say that I am honestly speechless at this point. Hedonites just keep getting worse and worse. Every tournament player in my local meta who played them, jumped ship to other factions. Simply not worth the hassle. Generally, the online HoS communities all seem to agree that GW is completely destroying us.
I will continue playing them sometimes, but Soulblight are going to be my primary faction from now.