Lhw
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Posts posted by Lhw
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@JP1 it's a really hard one that. The wording says that for all movement purposes he ignores it - so clearly piling in and charges, just treats the woods as there. But you're right that in theory he is still 3" away as sat on top of the tree. I've tended to play it as they completely ignore it - as they could just put the dragon on the side of the wood at a weird angle and it would technically be in. As far as I am aware, there's nothing in the rules that says they can't do that. Because of that, I tend to just play they can sit in the holes.
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@Saul Goodman I've played on the stream a few times with my Sylvaneth, a couple of times not putting the trees in. I never put my models in the circles, and ask explain to my opponent the logic that the trees are still there. As was said ealier, exception to this is sometimes flying units. Otherwise, if you have seen players putting models in the gaps, that's incorrect.
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@Kaylethia interesting to hear you've had success with them in a unit of 10. I've looked at it a lot and thought it would have legs, but never actually got round to putting it on the table. Has that been as part of Gnarlroot?
@Aezeal agree entirely with the Ancient and number of spells. 2 base just makes sense, and would make him a lot more viable outside of Gnarlroot.
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That's a fair comment. Would be cool if they kicked out more damage (or could be boosted to do so). Doesn't quite mean you can't use them though, does it?
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I think Tree Revs are great. The pressure they can put on your opponents objectives and small wound models is brilliant and very useful. Kurnoth Hunters are still very good, as is Drycha against big hordes (such as DoK, Reapers or FEC...) I think Spites are a bit pants, and Wych's just don't seem worth the same points as Wraiths to me now, but almost everything else in the book has a role.
Again, 1 aspect of Sylvaneth is not the only thing that has done well. I've done well with lots of dryads, other players have done well with a collection of monsters, some have used multi drop armies, @Mike Burgess has used lists with lots of Hunters in before. I really think they are a very viable army at the moment, with 5/6 viable lists.
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@Grimbok I talked about 2k because that's what I like to play. Just my own experience. You're being equally aggressive about that. I have little experience with 1k games, but fortunately it seems that @Kaylethia and @Ruhraffe have, both of whom seem to suggest that they can be quite doable at that level too.
I'm a bit confused by how you do want Sylvaneth to play? Not big monsters. Not Dryad spam. What do you want?
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Disagree with that @Grimbok. Whilst Dryad spam is probably best, there are plenty of players who have gone 3-2 or 4-1 with min model, monster heavy lists. @Jimbo did it at Angelcore and someone at Blackout this year went 4-1 with a non battalion list, featuring Alarielle, Drycha and Durthu! So definitely doable in casual play. I also think it's pretty impossible to assume to know how GW 'wanted' the army to play. There are a lot of players playing Sylvaneth, many of whom picked it up early on (myself included), so I don't think that it struggles in that respect.
My thoughts in general, if we were to get a new tome:
- Fix stringing. Yes it makes Dryads good, but it is silly. Not particularly fun to play against, and just doesn't make sense at all.
- Make woods consistent in manner they're put down. All outside of 1".
That would be my only two things that I felt really needed dealing with. Think the tome is relatively balanced.
Having said all that, definitely not in the 'I fear a nerf' camp. Love what the recent new tomes have offered armies and very excited about the prospect of a new one for us! Alarielle might even get a natural bonus to cast in it!!
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Remember Winterleaf needs 4 units of Dryads, not 3 @Gibs. Personally, I liked the HB version better. If you want to go Winterleaf, I think you need to invest heavily in the Dryads, a bit more.
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A good summary by @Ruhraffe there, @Gibs. The battalion set up are quite strong.
If you're looking for a rundown, this is me blowing my own trumpet, but I chatted trees with The Honest Wargamer a couple of months ago (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/327566892). Might be worth a listen! The @JustPlay-Ritchie podcast - Justsaying also tends to talk quite a bit about them, as Ritchie takes them to tourneys.
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Just too many points though, isn't it? Even at 460, not sure you're getting your money back?
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There's all the compendium ones that I keep on trying to work out whether it's legal to use or not 😅
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1 hour ago, Easytyger said:
Quick question for @Lhw or anyone playing Winterleaf. Can the order unit taken in the battalion be given an artifact? From what I recall it's not considered an Allied unit if taken in the battalion but doesn't seem like it could be given artifacts.
Afraid not - there was an FAQ on it.
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17 hours ago, JP1 said:
I agree, i cant think of a unit that is both a) fighty and tanky, and b) provides defensive buffs to your dryads.
A mix of 3x hunters (for the fighty and tanky part) and Geminids and/or Isharann Tidecaster (for the defensive buff part) might get you near, but definitely isn't a patch on the Phoenix.
Almost as if the Phoenix is massively underpointed for what it does, right? I think I might wait and see what changes happen with new points. See if anything comes down a bit.
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I have tried it a few times at new points. Unfortunately don't think it is worth it, still. Hunters still better, for lesspoints.
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4 hours ago, JP1 said:
@Twh30 Agreed - although i would love to know what you guys would run in the Winterleaf list if the Phoenix gets a (much needed) points increase in GHB19?
LHW, i know you are tied to the Phoenix for deeply narrative reasons, but any ideas what you'd switch to as your order unit, if any?
😂😂
If I have to put the narrative aside, I guess I will. I'm honestly not sure. I'd like some shooting in the list, but the woods kind of ****** that. Might wait until I see other points changes.
What do you think?
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14 hours ago, Grimbok said:
Good time for Sylvaneth? I think not. Unless you wan't to spam the same warscroll, playing defensive board control grind. I see only three different warscrolls used competetively, Alarielle (undercosted), Branchwych (summon dryads) and dryads (cheap, and good battalions)...
Boring and unfortunate. Sylvaneth isn't that good in my casual meta (can't compete with free summoning armies). I could buy and paint more dryads, except they are the oldest and worst models in the whole range. Branchwraiths are also crappy old finecast models.
Durthu is very swingy, but ok I suppose, maybe a bit overcosted (20 points).
Drycha is too expensive by a lot (but ok in the meta maybe)
Kurnoths are a tad overpriced, bows by a lot.
Tree revenants and spite revenants need a warscroll change actually.
Branchwych..ehhh. Pretty sucky compared to Branchwraith.
Treelords. Ancient is way overcosted. Don't know about the normal one.
So that leaves Alarielle undercosted, dryads don't need that max discount, and branchwraiths are pretty good, might be sligtly on the cheap side.
No wonder all tournament armies look the same.This book is getting old, and it shows...there is no way to make a competitive army without spamming dryads. A shame really.
Grimbok
How very negative. There were a lot of Sylvaneth armies at Chrimbobo, and have been quite a few kicking around. Whilst you're right, the top ones do revolve around Alarielle and Dryads, there are a lot of solid performances with less of them. Of the Sylvaneth over the weekend, I think the majority of us went 3-2, with a wide range of different lists and different battalions (Harvestboon, Gnarlroot and Winterleaf).
The idea that there is "no way to make a competitive army without spamming dryads" is completely wrong. I know some players have done very well with Dreadwood (even if I think it's pants). That's very different from back in AoS 1, when almost every list you came up against was Gnarlroot in some format, normally the only thing changing was the amount of Hunters.
I think it's a great time to play Sylvaneth. I know a lot of other factions look on us enviously - and quite a lot of players say that Sylvaneth is the standard that GW should aim for with their other factions.
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1 hour ago, Lanoss said:
I was hoping you all would give me your thoughts on these two lists. I’ve played Dreadwood religiously and I’ve done quite well with it. I’d now like to branch out
Gnarlroot
The goal behind this is to setup a big default wood, acorn a wood, summon a wood - in optimum locations. Drop my 30 dryad unit in a large wood in front of what I think will come at me hardest. Alarielle summons 20 dryads into the other wood. Branchwraith summons 10 dryads into the other wood. Sistersof the Thorn buff the most viable dryad unit
its very much of the stall game - id say it plays most similarly to death in a way.
I probably should drop Alarielle for some stronger units but I love the model and her abilities so I’ll try to make this work
The other I’d like to try is Winterleaf (even though my Syls are a firery autumn theme)
The idea behind this one is just dryads in ya face. Deploy everything defensively. Do all 3 different wood placements. Cast throne of vines, cast cogs. Then redeploy all my dryads, in woods, in yo face with the general behind the main block. They then only have to make a 6” charge with a cp reroll.
I look forward to teating these lists out and will let you all know how they go. In the meantime, I’d like to know what y’all think and ways the lists could be better optimised
cheers
I took the second of these lists (literally exactly the same down to spell choices!) to Facehammer and came 3rd. So I think it's really good.
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23 hours ago, a74xhx said:
Trying to figure out a 2000 list myself, and may go Harvestboon too. Couple of questions for everyone
1) Durthu vs Drycha - who is most useful?
Both are beasts. Drycha is a lot cheaper with killer shooting.... but you can't give her Ghyrstrike or any other artefact.
So, let's say you've got a left over artefact to use in your list and nowhere else to place it. Which would you spend 380 points on:
- Durthu with Ghyrstrike
- Drycha + Branchw(ych/raith) with an artefact + 20 points to spend elsewhere
- Drycha + 10 Dryads (probably bumping up another dryad unit) + loose the artefact!
2) Is a second or third Branchwraith always better than a Branchwych? On paper the Branchwych spell sounds like it's going to be a killer, but I've always had lacklustre results - a cast of 10 is only going to do roughly 1.5 mortals. And Dwellers Below is similar enough.
3) Is anyone choosing Tree Revenants (except for those taking Gnarlroot or Ironbark)? Great for scoring objective points, but they need keeping alive until then, which usually means staying out of combat.
4) Drycha (with Reaping or Dwellers Below) on a Balewind Vortex in the centre of the board - a waste of points or a 2 spell + shooting nightmare? Add in a Branchw(ych/raith) keeping her healed with regrowth. And Remember that against some armies Primal terror is impossible to score any damage (1D6 + 2 is always less than Death's bravery of 10).
1) Both have their limitations. I think probs just about Durthu, but it really depends on the rest of list. Harvest does tend to suit Durthu more, with the benefits to charging.
2) Normally, yes. I also like the Wych's spell, but now the Wraith is just better. That -1 to hit is nice too.
3) I have once or twice. They are there to sit on the edge of the board and wait until end game to jump across the battlefield to turn the tide in your favour. If you have a small gap, then yes.
4) Can Drycha sit on a Vortex? Think she has too many wounds.
7 hours ago, Isotop said:@Lhw can you tell us how the "using Navigate Realmroots on freshly summoned units"-topic is handled on (big) tournaments? There was quite a confusion about it in the recent past.
I've always played it they can't. Both count as their move, so you can't have two things counting for the same thing, if that makes sense.
1 hour ago, AaronWIlson said:Played my final practice BOBO game last night. Gnarlroot v Legion of Azgorh at 2k, got a solid scenario win on Battle for the pass. I gave him turn one as he couldn't punish me for it, proceeded do a fair bit of chip damage with Bows, TLA Shooting, Geminids, Swords, TLA spell & exploding woods. Navigate realmroots movement allowed me to crush the left flank and use my dryads on the right flank to hold the objectives.
You big gambler giving T1 away. Good work. Looking forward to seeing/hearing how you do this weekend mate.
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2 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:
Some of us still have ethical standards and refuse to play Sylvaneth as a Dryad-horde army, your multiple top 5 finishes be damned. 😜
My 35 model AoS 1 Sylvaneth army is now a 74 model Sylvaneth army... I do feel kind of dirty for taking this route.
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1 hour ago, Alezya said:
I like your list. I was wondering on some winterleaf lists as well, and I am glad that you basically have the same point of view regarding the TL/TLA when taken outside of Gnarlroot. It is still interesting in some lists and playstyles though.
As you have a defensive list, I assume (regarding the scenario played) that you chose to play first in order to run and sit on objectives: But for example vs a DoK list, double turn is very strong for them. Did you let the DoK go first?
With that in mind: If you go first: With the forest folk battalion rule, in order to sit in the middle of the table, do you really think that Chronomantic cogs is still important in this list?
Every single time, apart from relocation orb, where I like to avoid it if I can get away with giving it away, cos of the scenario. Even against DoK, getting the woods up is so key for the list - you need all the dryads to be -1 to hit and that requires 3 woods down turn 1, realistically.
Cogs isn't actually there for the bonus to movement, so much. I'll use that affect when the scenario demands an alpha, e.g. better part of valour, but it's more used to make Alarielle more surivable, by re rolling her armour save, and giving another spell for her to cast, boosting her and the Phoenix more. Why I think it's worth the 60 points.
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@jake3991 that was my initial thought too, that I'd lack damage. The reality has been that it hasn't been an issue at all. I've had more tablings with this army than others. Dryads with the additional attacks can be surprisngly consistent, whilst Alarielle and Phoenix do quite a bit too. It's a hard one to pin down where the damage comes from, but I don't struggle with it.
@scrubyandwells Such slander. I'm just a really nice, all round good guy. Got an award to prove it and all. Alarielle, and the rest of the army, look incredible. Needs more dryads though 😉
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4 hours ago, Twh30 said:
@Lhw have you thought about including geminids? For potentially extra minus 1 to hit?
I think they're great, I just don't particularly like chucking too many points in Endless Spells. Just don't think you get it back. And really happy with the impact that cogs has on the army.
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On 11/13/2018 at 3:08 AM, jake3991 said:
Awesome! Allariele certainly provides some serious flexibility. Would you mind giving us a rundown of your matchups?
Of course.
Game 1 was against Mixed Chaos, a combo of Skaven, Chaos Dwarf artillery and some cheeky Enlightened. Quite a good match up for my list, as I get to re roll hits and wounds against them of 1. Plus it was in the realm of fire, 30 Dryads with inferno blades are quite good! Ended up tabling him.
Game 2 was against a nice version of DoK, who were not Hag Narr, but the one with plus one to hit when they charge. I got a bit lucky turn 1 here. Alarielle's shooting attack did 3 wounds to Morathi before she transformed, as well as making an 8" charge with some dryads to wipe some Witch Aelves. First few turns all the dice rolls went my way, and he had terrible luck. Made it an easy win and another tabling.
Game 3 was against Mixed Order. Really mixed bunch, Phoenix, Morathi, some Fyreslayers, Arknaughts. I benefited quite a bit from it being total commitment, which meant he had to start the fyreslayers and heartrenders on the board. I gambled on one side of the board and managed to slowly grind him out, but it was an incredibly close game. My Phoenix went up against his and ended up dying first, but Alarielle came in at the end and helped claim his objective one last time to just swing me over the edge. Incredibly close game.
Game 4 was against another Mixed Order list, and on stream. Chris Myhill, who was playing them, I know quite well and have played round his house a few times. He's an exceptional player, so I knew it'd be tough. I managed to bunker up quite nicely turn 1, and he whiffed a bit with his griffon in his turn. I let him have the double, which was a gamble. It almost backfired when his Dragonlord managed to sneak into Alarielle. I managed to make some good saves and some of his attacks whiffed, at which point I was able to hit back, mainly through spells through Alarielle, where she killed the Dragonlord and did a lot of damage to the Griffin. Chris played it out and I never felt I had won it until I did, but the defensive nature of the list, and the speed it has end game, helped me win.
Game 5 was against Stormcast, also on stream. My only loss of the weekend. Big sequitor blocks came at me and pinned me in my defensive set up. I focused far too much on killing his sequitors, which I did, but as a result lost sight of the fact I could auto lose turn 3. I had left myself out of position, Craig noticed it once he had won the roll off, and duly made a fool of me on live stream!
5 great games and good opponents. The lists speed is great. It lacks high rend, but the mortal wound damage through spells and alarielle tends to make up for it. Plus it's just very good at scenario play.
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General's Handbook 2021 - oh, FFS!!!
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