Sarouan

Nostalgia is all about remembering the joy and good times you had when you first had these miniatures. When it was out for the first time, it wasn't seen as ugly as sin but as a great improvement to what they've done before (either on the style or simply the material). That's why when you see them again, you can't help but feel a certain fondness younger ones who didn't experience that can't understand (and rightly so !). Which is why TOW is barely attracting new players, IMHO. Younger generation players have different standards because they don't have nostalgia. That's what some of them can feel that here : those miniatures that are removed, they will be part of their own nostalgia in the future, I'm pretty sure of it. Because they're tied to good times they had when they were still around. Hell, as a Warcry player who started with the very 1st box, I guess I will be feeling the same with all those lovely chaos warbands that are being removed as well from the range. The thing is, for nostalgia to work, it has to be something that's not around anymore in the first place. That's why it's so strongly appealing when they are coming back later. Here, GW decides to remove it and give some kind of "roadmap" of what will becomes of their support in game. What they're not telling is what will replace them in the future. Reimagined miniatures ? New factions ? New packaging ? Who knows, future will tell.

TOW started with Bretonnians and Tomb Kings, 2 miniature ranges that were abruptly removed from sales when AoS started after the death of Battle while the others kept going for a longer while. So far I saw and heard, TOW's success is mainly because old veterans are coming back / take the opportunity to "complete" their old collection with the miniatures they couldn't have at the time. Orcs and goblins, they're not really in the same situation. Their old miniatures were still available in AoS and most of the battalion's content are miniatures that can easily be found in any army already. Plus the core they have are common goblins and orcs, and they're not exactly the most popular to start an effective Orcs and goblins army... I honestly relativise rumors talking about TOW "selling really well". I barely see new players coming to the game, be it on youtube or local club / stores. So far I'm concerned, it's all veterans and people who already have everything to play...or who write "3D printer goes brrrr".

I said that too, and see how I am now, drowned in more new miniatures I can count. Wish you better luck than I had.

Oh I did experience consumer outrage very well. I left GW for a long time after how they treated Battle and went to other games / companies thinking grass was greener there. Turned out it wasn't : after a death of a couple of them and even more loss of my money wasted in now useless miniatures / rules no one cared to play with anymore, I went back to GW. because they, at least, are still around and once their miniatures are out of production, either they come back after a long while (hello TOW) or at least you can find someone else interested in buying your collection more easily. Consumer outrage is like anger : useless , stressfull and leading to bad decisions you end up regretting. Better keep a cool head. Now that is a moot point. Just because it was "smaller" and "in the early '90's" doesn't mean it didn't have the same emotionnal impact others are experiencing now. Times may have changed, scale was maybe different, but still - people were passionate and involved with their collection in these days too. Most important : they didn't know what would happen in the future afterwards, just like you now don't know what will happen years from there as well. And the fact some actually kept these lovely collections all this time even though "they can't be played / bought anymore" should tell a lot about how you should feel with your own collection of "dead miniatures" right now. Just because you don't understand your previous generation of gamer's feelings don't mean they didn't count at that time they felt them. And your semantics don't change the fact that GW did that in the past, even if you say "it's just a change of name (no, there were witch hunter miniatures that were basically out of production after the change and sisters of battle were just a part of the army, not solely composing it) ", "it's just white dwarf articles (no, chaos dwarves did have a very official book, just not distributed everywhere : proof here )" or that a lot more of "smaller companies" went and die the most brutal way, leading to complete disappearance of their beloved games and miniature ranges. Those who invested a lot of money in these said collections were actually treated even more cruelly than you with AoS right now : most of the time, games / companies litterally disappeared the next day without warning, you were faced with the hard facts without an alternative. And at least, your AoS / Warcry miniatures are still worth something since the company that produced it is still around and a strong brand. Or they are being used in another supported game system and that means you'll still be able to buy them to finish your collection (like beastmen, since they're just moving to The Old World). No one cares on second market about an obscure small game with its even more obscure miniature range. Remember Anima Tactics ? No ? Well, that's my point.

Like I said before, I experienced many times this exact same thing : it's not the first time GW does that, the most famous being the death of Warhammer Battle and complete disappearance of Tomb Kings / Bretonnians for a decade (at that time, their players were rightfully outraged too and reacted exactly the same with their collection). I also invested a lot (more) of money in different games that were great looking at the time but now completely disappeared with their companies. Some collections, I got rid of them in a fit of rage when I was young or needed to make space (and regretted it deeply afterwards). Those said collections were "worth" hundreds of dollars (at least that's what I spent at the time), and it was all lost. What can I say, I just love miniatures and games. So I do know how it feels, mind you. But with age (and experience), you learn to relativise and not act in the emotion. And you end up seeing what you actually do : putting a lot of money in something that's basically not worth the money it asks, and can disappear suddenly without warning because it's just a game sold by a company that's not eternal or bound to keep working the same like before. In the end, all you have left is your collection and your memories. Though, with some time and effort, you can also keep your group of players to keep playing forever (that's how I kept playing Warhammer Battle during these 10 years before The Old World - with all the books I still kept and players who loved the game and world, and I ended up having a "free army" ready to be used in TOW so no regret !). Maybe you'll be in the same situation than me, maybe not. Your choice, your feelings. Take /keep the ones that suit you the best.

Funny how their female dwarves have smaller feet than the males. They're nice, they have a more AoS vibe to me IMHO. Makes me think of the comic series "Dwarves" (granted, it's directly inspired from Warhammer Battle dwarves).

I'd go for a cold one chariot. Cold ones combined profiles can easily be counted as a single bigger monster. And you won't have a bothersome wheel in the middle of the howdah for the crew's robes to get stuck in.

More good news : all arcane journals are available to download on Warhammer Community site in both deutsch and french languages. Germans and frenchs, rejoice ! Sorry, still no free english in sight.

What ? Witch Hunters, chaos dwarves and squats all had a very official army book in their time (different editions of 40k and Battle). Fimirs had very official rules too in very old books. What you're saying is not true. GW did remove these entire miniature ranges at the time, render non official their factions to be able to play for years before some came back and it had the same impact on their respective communities too at that time.

GW already said multiple times that it will take time to release everything for the core factions, but you know how players are : always taking their fantasies for reality, until it becomes it.

All previous Battle factions will eventually come back, it's just a matter of time, plus Cathay and Kislev as new factions. Vampire Counts have nothing more than the others don't on that matter, everything told in "rumors" is wishlisting at this point.

Well, the fact they released the entire rules of the Arcane Journal "for free download" is actually a good sign for the other languages, original included. Maybe they will release all Arcane Journals the same way in the future for all ? Since they don't include the background section, it still gives a point of buying the book.

We will know it in the background section of 4th's rulebook, like in 3rd.

No, the worst will be the launch of the last Dawnbringer book, that no one will care about using since they know 4th will completely invalidate it. Even the background is sadly unnecessary, since we already know what it will lead to.

The funny truth is that every faction has lots of ways to expand their current range. The sad part is that it's only a question of allowed ressources and outside restrictions. Time and budgets are finite, on the opposite of imagination. What happened with Sacrosanct is a reminder of this : of course you can make infinite versions of armored hulking paladins, but that doesn't mean the market / company can sustain them indefinitely for a variety of reasons.

Not really. See on Ebay what insane prices out of production GW old miniatures get and how they plummet once GW sells them again. If anything, it's actually a gift to own an army that's not supported by GW anymore : its value suddenly skyrockets*. *In reality, most people are attached to their collection and tend to keep it even if they don't play with it anymore, unless they really have to get rid of it like no more space to store them or need for quick money. We always were. AoS players who started with that game may not have been aware of it, but GW already "squatted" entire armies / factions in their previous games / editions a lot of time in their history. Squats, witch hunters, chaos dwarves, fimirs...some did go back (some even did multiple times of coming back then being squatted then coming back again). It's just a matter of circonstances, different leads / directions and well, times. Drama comes always the first time you experience it, then you tend to relativise.

One thing I learned from my decades of wargaming is that there's always room for interpretation, no matter how tightly / detailed you think the rules are written. But it is indeed obvious AoS design team learned from 3rd's life cycle...and definitely from 40k too. If I have a simpler AoS game, it will be complementary with the complex The Old World that I intend to keep playing. Otherwise, I will still have Warcry as simple yet strategic game system.

Good news for french players : the translated rules for Arcane Journal - Orcs and Goblins are available to download on Warhammer Community's download site : here It's just the rules, the background section isn't there.

Ok, so having a lot of auxilary units in your list isn't a great idea with that in mind.

Well, we already know in Dawnbringer books that Skragrott got his precious mushroom asyluum severely damaged by the skavens and he totally wants to get revenge on them. He's certainly not the only Gloomspite Gitz boss that got his territory invaded by empowered rats all across the realms. Pretty sure their lore in 4th will find them quite engaged in a lot of conflicts with skavens. Fyreslayers will without a doubt be in the same situation, maybe more the focus since most of their loges are in Aqshy and Aqshy is where the main action will be played in 4th.

Soon-soon ! Eshin clan likes to make it sneaky-sneaky, man-thing !

I'm expecting more like a scouting unit, specifically for Warcry - like a band whose main job is to look for hints of new aether-gold ores before sending the fleet (less ressources spent that way too !). Less clad in sealed suit, more ragged troops with a lot more faces (and women ) to see .

You mean "Cities of Sigmar", don't you. Joke aside, more stuff for capitalist flying dwarves will always be welcome. Especially more female dwarves.* *I say that too for Fyreslayers, and it happened so...

I think GW doesn't need a petition about bringing beastmen back : I think it's already decided waaaay before they announced removing the current range. In reality, this is nothing new and it was equally as bad at the time Warhammer Battle was still officially supported by GW - and it was the fault of competitive scene players / tournament organizers on that matter (GW didn't really get involved as much as nowadays, it was really the competitive community that "imposed" these rules on the rest because "it's how you play it right"). In truth, events that didn't care for matched play / competitive tournaments and focused more on the narrative / fun / "just bring your most craziest miniatures" mindset were always the one allowing "unofficially supported material". I still remember fondly these "Forgeworld allowed" events 20 years ago, at the time FW stuff was looked as horribly overpowered and banned from all official organized events (the same with named characters, funny isn't it ?). That's indeed where the work is to be done : with your local group of players. Well, until GW brings beastmen back to AoS, obviously - just not the same miniatures, like they will do with Chaos Dwarves soon.

Yes, but in 40k, Horus Heresy isn't really about releasing old 40k kits that were removed from sale. Now with TOW and the clear new stance between both miniature ranges, different situation can lead to a different path for 4th battletomes.