Fyrenn

That's because few of us are left, my local store had one box of the start collecting and nothing else. It's all special order for them. Just thought - what BoC was split with some going to Std and and the Dragon Ogors and monsters went to a new chaos book where they teamed up with Chaos Duardin? 0_o I really do see an avenue for rebranding in some ways.

I do wonder about the lack of calling them by name in the stormcast thing and the starters guide pages. I think the idea of 2 alliances is cool (based on general, like how the chaos monsters in monstrous arcanum can ally in with a general with the chaos keyword - all they really need is one new type of character who has the 'destruction' keyword. or both.) But there is another idea I was thinking of: I don't think they could ever really soup StD and BoC, but I wonder if it could be split. Lorewise, the gors are all pretty chaosy, but dragon ogors are less so (i believe they just decided to join chaos after being defeated). What if the gors went to Std, and the random monsters like Chimera, Cocktrice, Dogors, etc, became some new smaller faction tied to destruction? A rebranding of some sort seems the most likely option to me simply because that would explain why they're not using the term. They could split the faction and make some elements StD, but a lot of the monsters, and perhaps even dragon ogors, could be the start of a new faction, be it destruction or chaos. it's a skeleton of tools to perhaps use. IDK. It could also be simply a new name and keeping all the models.

Did they ever specifically say it was a battletome, or more 'something chaosy'? like... they wouldn't have meant this, would they???

has anything made legends ever been ressurrected? I think it's more likely a new official model with a slightly different name (like adding an adjective or descriptor to the same thing, or something) would appear. the sort of option where you can easily count as your old forgeworld goodness, but otherwise a new name and warscroll for the new release. like.. Norscan Skin Wolves as opposed to just Skin Wolves, that sort of thing.

I don't think this is something to expect regularly or anything - i think it is more that it's a new edition; legends or not, if it's going to be usable in a new edition you'd expect there to be some sort of update. For example, most of the monsters were completely unusable without that monstrous ally rule. I don't think a lot of them were perfectly fine if they could only be in grand alliances, which no longer exist.. right?

it's not legal for tournament stuff, but for casual games there's a bit more of a buy in with barely supported but existing 'legends' rules. For me it's Monstrous Arcanum Legends. The allies ability those monsters now have let folks like me (BoC) get to actually ally something other than Std - like a gigantic chaos spawn - which has always been thematically appropriate for me. Do I have to ask permission? sure! But I don't think there are a ton of people outside of tournaments that are going to have a big problem with that. especially not my path to glory group. It's a step in the right direction, is all i'm saying.

Well, to be fair the updates in monstrous arcanum legends were the best thing i've seen in months - as a BoC person, I can finally play a gigantic chaos spawn as an ally if the person I play with asks. No one I know is going to care 😄

I agree... i can't begrudge (too much) a company making a decision on a delay, there are a lot of reasons why that might happen. I think just locally it feels that the buzz/hype is dying down with so many unknowns. We know they're going to be doing rules articles prior to the release, I guess I just don't know why they can't throw one or two of those out now just to keep things moving. I can't see how it would hurt, and it seems to me some people legitimately are in holding patterns while they wait for x: rules for warclans, waaghs, next release, FAQ, and so on. It doesn't have to have lots of flashy images, just a couple paragraphs can continue to wet appetites' for what is coming.

You know, we were talking awhile back about small vs big releases, and a lot of folks thought maybe no BoC because it might be a smaller release coming up due to so many stormcast and kruleboyz coming out. I was wondering if anyone could speak to precedent if it's a split release of some sort, like two waves? Maybe release the book and a new unit or two now, and then have a second wave that is just replacing existing models next year? I tend to think they would never release a book with new models that don't exist, but since BoC requires so many resculpts or releases, they theoretically could have a release of just replacing things later. That could, in theory, be the Mino, Doombull, and Jabber that's been mentioned? IE: this year, if BoC, a few new kits. Next year, the dual box that includes the three resculpts. Thoughts?

I definitely think there was a need to reset. I'm not even saying you're wrong here - it's definitely possible and wouldn't be surprising... however, it is also possible they saw the current battalions as so shattershot the only way to try to make parity, even asymmetrical parity, was to start over. This could do that - there is now a baseline with the core that more or less has a value system, and very clear 'rewards'. They very well may want there to be different options in the books as time goes on, just have them more on par to some sort of baseline. Does it allow power creep? It could, but there is no denying that a reset at the very least slows that from where it was. Ideally, there will be a couple extra battalions that play to the strengths while more or less keeping within the framework of how they are now built (not specific units, but unit types - with bonuses not dissimilar to what is already on the table). I honestly see a lot of potential for battalions for different factions that do not necessarily make someone a have or have not - the core is a base so everyone has something, and hopefully any faction specific ones will just be minor tweaks as opposed to things to design your list around, etc.

Until people start posting shots like this where they were all painted together, it's always going to come across as disjointed. I'd gather a lot of the apprehension is because, well, they don't look like the orcs we're used to. in WFB there was no problem with orcs and goblins. Just think about these as another subspecies of orc. IE, if you can do orcs and gobbos, you should be able to do orcs and kruleboyz orcs without it feeling too far off if the color scheme and basing and concept all go together. I think this is just a failure of the imagination so far.. IDK, it's just a matter of time till people show them together and it looks really nice. As far as rules synergy? That's another story - but at least GW wants you to believe they'll work together well 🙂

I'm not sure I agree regarding roadmaps. While this is one plausible theory, the same could be done for the inverse. Your assumption is that people will buy regardless and give up purchases because they know something is coming. I would argue some people will buy knowing something they're interested in is coming, as opposed to holding off because of 'who knows when': ex: "I really think that Idoneth are cool, but they're missing some key pieces like sea monsters. Now that I know something is coming in the next year, i'm going to start to buy the pieces I like because there will only be more to follow." Now - is one more likely than the other? I don't really know - I don't know GW knows. I can tell you i've held off on purchases because of waiting to see what happens in a FAQ or GHB or 'whats next'. If I knew definitively nothing I was hoping for was coming, i'd definitely take a bigger look at what was currently out, or coming soon. I think it could go either way - TBH for GW, I think it's more a .. 'if it isn't broke, don't fix it' problem. They are doing well. This doesn't mean there isn't profit to be found in a roadmap, nor potential goodwill (and ill feelings) on what those would show... but why do it to experiment when things are going fine for themselves now? As far as convincing them it's worth the (risk?) in finding out? I pretty much agree with you - there isn't any way we can convince anyone anything - save for the fact that i'm sure there are GW people who see posts, the community, and get an inkling of how the wind blows for this small cohort of GW fans. Personally - I think it's not a bad idea to let people know - for me, the lack of knowledge doesn't encourage more purchases - it encourages less. Shrug!

i'm still thinking we might see a new Chimera kit - largely because of the GHB book cover. Why make a cover where it's a creature that is in the game, but physical differences? It could be artistic license, but I dunno - seems more like a completely different creature physically. The reality is a Chimera kit could probably be 3 different builds, if they wanted. a lot of bang for the buck, and it could be amazing.

I'm wondering if we can figure if it's a 'small release' or a 'big release'. I figure Maggotkin don't need a huge release of models, just an updated book. BoC needs a sizeable release. Sure, it could be one of the others - but I really do think it's way too soon for the chaos dwarf crowd. I know Kruleboys are part of warclanz, but it's functionally almost an entire faction so a new faction release a couple months later seems... rushed. people will not have painted all the new goodies yet (and thus the internet inspiration that comes after that first wave of painted armies would only be starting). I assume there's a little bump in purchases around then for a new army like that? Looking at the schedule ahead, which seems more likely? A big or small release? I bet that's a bigger factor...

nothing that i've heard besides the fact that we know 'something' chaos is coming in (october?). There was a rumor awhile ago that it was one of the first four, but I don't think that is reliable... so sadly not much, other than perpetually keeping fingers crossed whenever something 'chaosy' is being mentioned 🙂

it's on the page there. you have some limits - default is 1 of each wizard, priest, monster, war machine, and 3 heroes. If they cover multiple things, they cover multiple things. so Dragon Ogor Shaggoth one of your three heroes and also your wizard and monster. You start with one territory that functionally adds one additional capability (+1 monster, hero, wizard, etc). Beyond that, you have a barracks with a max list of units... this is more for the campaign and switching stuff out when things are weakened. there doesn't appear to be a limit to types of units in there, but you build based off of a point level and just use the normal rules (in regards to battlelines, etc).

Did any sort of update to the old Monsters Arcanum / Monsters of Chaos, etc ever get updated? I thought the GHB mentioned something about it? I ask because since grand alliances no longer exist, does that mean there is no way to ally in "Monsters of Chaos" and the like, even if it has a chaos keyword? or has that changed in any way? Trying to figure out what I need to take a Gigantic Chaos Spawn ....

It's in the core book faq. it says you can't take the endless spells of a faction of a coalition unit unless expressly permitted. It's also not that great now, tbh. it doesn't protect beasts from the effect, less damage, harder to cast, and also the strikes last thing only happens on things within 3" of the taurus as opposed to anything damaged by it.

Mm, yeah, at first I thought the main difference was that the Taurus never did d6 anymore, which frankly is fine because it can move more. I didn't realize that not only can it effect BoC units now, it ALSO only gives strike last if it's still within 3", not if the unit takes damage. So.. that's even worse. you can't run it across a group to give multiple strike lasts based on damage, it really only works if you can park it, idk, right behind the unit you're dealing with?

Well, from the BoC perspective you can use the weird glass half full that we're literally not allowed to ally in or coalition in "Beasts of Chaos" Slaangors anymore, so we do not need to be salty that they did not get any sort of update regarding rules, etc.... right?

Well, the errata is up... Not really sure what I was expecting, I guess. Doesn't look like you can even ally or coalition in Slaangors.

looks like most of them are just endless spell updates... nothing more? does anyone see the coalition stuff anywhere? -edit- oh. it's just that BoC gets nothing. nvm.

could honestly be the flying beast. a lot of GW dragons are spindly things. it's possible there are wings lower down and it is the mouth of mork or whatever.

Well, despite my desire to not be hopeful, Slaangors are maybe the one unit I would hope gets some sort of change this goaround, just because it's been so universally considered the weakest piece of the battletome, and it doesn't clearly have any role to speak of. If it's meant to be a glass cannon, it simply isn't. :shrug: Does that mean they will get the keywords? I think it's unlikely, but even just a warscroll update might make them more interesting.

Yeah, as a Slaaneshi type, does this change anything for you? 1/4 coalition BoC also includes the stuff not restricted to those old battalions - so like Chimera and Jabbeys and Cocktrice and all that stuff... so you lose the battleline, but gain access to the entire range.