JackOfBlades

As far as i can see the best save that stabbas can have is a 5+. Am i missing some combo? Or did you mean that the combo is to modify the save by +3, and thus negate Archaon's rend?

Are you sure it isnt the perceived power (or binary outcomes) of the spells that make you dislike the autocasting, rather than the autocasting itself? For example there are plenty of effects that apply automatic maluses to hit or wound, Tomb Kings in WHFB were even based on autocasting and it was a mechanic that people had IIRC strongly mixed reactions to being removed. Maybe the answer is not to scrap the mechanic itself, but to integrate it better into the faction? I dont know - im just trying to consider the perspective.

Yeah i see your point, i think both perspectives are necessary for a "healthy" experience.

It just seems to me that picking off elite models with low wound counts and few bodies in the rest of their army is exactly what the lumineth, or at least that lumineth build, would be meant to do. Sort of like how youd expect that if a khorne list brings a bloodsecrator, skull altar, hexgorger skulls, mage eater and skullshard mantle on a wrath of khorne bloodthirster, spellbane hex, and skaarac the bloodborne, it wouldnt necessarily be an "NPE" that your magic-based list then wouldnt work so well.

You mention using fairly expensive units with a low wound count per point - vlozd, vengorian, nagash. Out of curiosity, do you also get this NPE vs lumineth when you do something like plop down 140 zombies in legion of night?

Even 18 years ago the way i got into the hobby was through the internet - surely they cant be so out of touch as to believe they cant refresh a kit if it's webstore only (due to lack of physical space)? And even then, it couldnt pass decades without them finding any space to refresh kits which are older than many of the players who use them. This cant be it...

Yes, and my long experience with people in MOBAs is precisely why i am skeptical of too liberal definitions of what is an NPE. In MOBAs the biggest problem for players is typically their lack of willingness to acknowledge their own faults and flaws in both attitude and gameplay, preferring instead to project their own faults on to others. So when i see talks of "NPE" in a single player per team game like Age of Sigmar, where it isnt possible to project blame on to teammates but it is possible to do it on to NPEs, my first instinct is to wonder things like: To which degree are people refusing to acknowledge that theyre making mistakes? Are they refusing to adapt at all - either their decisions in list building and gameplay, or their attitude about suffering setbacks? Can they see situations from perspectives other than their own ego's gratification when things dont immediately work out or they suffer reverses?

I have a question that this thread might be a fitting place for. The kits people are mentioning here were already present ~18 years ago when i first got into Warhammer, and yet they still havent been updated. My question is, if GW is a miniatures company first as people say, why do they seemingly just refuse to update certain antiquated kits? Shouldnt that be the first thing theyd be looking to do? I am genuinely curious.

I agree with this and it would be interesting to know how many of us who feel this way are also moba players. In dota 2 again, Techies and Tinker before their reworks were broadly seen as NPEs and when i saw someone (last-)pick Tinker in particular, i typically just groaned and regretted that id qued for a match, wishing for it to end as soon as possible. It felt like the game became a tedious "job" rather than an engaging process of creativity, for different reasons between Techies and Tinker. Everyone knew what those heroes were going to do. Everyone knew what their counters were in principle, and their winrates were not even positive on a meta scale. And yet, just about everyone experienced matches involving these heroes as something to endure rather than enjoy, except the odd time when you could laugh at what they were doing - Techies for blowing someone up, Tinker for his sheer absurdity. I find it difficult however to abstractly distill exactly what such NPE consists of. But as in a moba, NPE can be part of both list building before the game and the gameplay itself.

Does anyone have experience in trying out the Craving Stare trait in particular and the Inspirer trait too? would love to hear experiences with the Mesmerising Mirror as well.

I have to bump this to say how much i just LOVE fiends 😍🥲 I just wish their 2.0-based functionality was errata'ed, either give them their malus to be wounded by default or let them fight in two ranks.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. The star of Tzeentch rises strong...

It may be a good start, but the problem is these kinds of winner takes all changes incentivise you to spam just a few warscrolls and feel bad when you dont do so. If that's repeated on a meta scale it will lead to identical armies, and players who feel like their favorite units from the lore are pointless and just suck, which doesnt feel good. So for players like me who happen to not want to spam/build armies around the particular units that were turned into "autotakes", these changes arent bad (im happy for your sake), but are certainly a mixed bag.

Indeed, symbaresh are now cheaper than a hellflayer chariot for example which is crazy. But as we see, they certainly didnt drop the costs of all mortal units as slickblades and blissbarb seekers sit at the same point cost as before. Why would someone ever pay 230 points for 5 slickblades instead of 260 points for 10 symbaresh? The way i can explain these changes is that theyre only half complete on the designers' part, and the other point changes will be released later.

Those point costs seem very odd at two places: Painbringers and symbaresh cheaper than daemonettes? Symbaresh for the same price as slaangors? The latter change in particular just cant be right. And why do symbaresh cost 130 while fiends cost 195 and slickblades remained at 230?

Compared to those, i prefer the name Age of Sigmar for precisely the reason that it creates a good contrast with what might really be going on in the realms.

I was thinking of the purple sun in particular because of its new save malus aura. I havent done any calculations, but i imagine it would help out slaaneshi units quite a bit as they arent exactly overflowing with rend. Ive also noticed people tend to run symbaresh twinsouls as 10, have you ever tried them as 15?

Do you guys think it will be worth it to pay for the new purple sun of shyish, and then summon a contorted epitome to actually cast it (cant fit the epitome into the list)? Or would you be better served scrapping the sun and just summoning 30 daemonettes instead?

I dont think that's what that ruling implies and the warscroll builder doesnt seem to think so either, but i personally wouldnt mind letting someone count their chaos warriors as battlelines in a hedonites army (and give them the HEDONITE keyword) anyway.

Ah yeah, but that's just a ruling for that one battle plan. As far as i can see, they havent changed the core rules about coalition units not counting toward the minimum battleline you must take.

Where does it say so? i cant find it either here or here but the core rules say "Coalition units do not count towards the number of Battleline units in your army." and the warscroll builder doesnt count them as battleline.

Both the exploding sixes from the mark of slaanesh, and the chaos knights battleline fulfillment, require your army to have the Slaves to Darkness faction (27.0 ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES in the core rules). This requirement is fulfilled if every unit in your army except allies/coalitions has the SLAVES TO DARKNESS keyword. But since the faction youre using is Hedonites of Slaanesh, which uses the HEDONITE keyword, your army cant use the battle traits from the Slaves to Darkness faction (warriors dont get exploding sixes) and chaos knights wont count as battleline in a Hedonites of Slaanesh army. Now for a history lesson... The disclaimer about chaos knights is a bit of antiquated wording made for an older edition, ill try to explain what happened: You used to be able to take the Pleasurebound Warband warscroll battalion in matched play, making the units in it part of the "Slaanesh" faction and gaining the SLAANESH keyword. At this point the HEDONITE keyword didnt exist and it was common for people to fill their battleline with stuff like S2D marauders or BoC ungors, which got the exploding sixes from Euphoric Killers because that battle trait used the SLAANESH keyword. So, chaos warriors could be battleline in a Slaanesh army if you put them in the right battalion, but chaos knights had that disclaimer saying they could only be battleline in a Slaves to Darkness army. But then they both scrapped warscroll battalions in matched play, introduced the HEDONITE keyword for the Hedonites of Slaanesh army's battle traits, and introduced "coalition" units with their restrictions. After that, S2D battleline units no longer had any avenue to count as battleline in a HoS army nor could they benefit from the Hedonites' battle traits when coalitioned in as they lacked the HEDONITE keyword. This makes the bit about chaos knights being "battleline in a S2D army" redundant today in matched play, since now, no allied/coalitioned units like chaos warriors or marauders or ungors etcetra can count as battleline anyway.

Unfortunately for both of you, chaos warriors dont count as battleline since "Coalition units do not count towards the number of Battleline units in your army." They dont get exploding sixes either since they cant get the HEDONITE keyword. Of course these things would only apply in 100% matched play, im sure anyone who plays even a little more narratively with you wont mind giving the appropriate keywords and battleline fulfillments.

I feel the same way. Point reductions might make what there is more functional but it wont change the uninspired, seemingly rushed nature of the army book. I think the slaanesh release was clearly driven by the new wave of miniature sculpts, and the army book itself was either: 1) Both management and authors only intended it as an errata for the previous army book. 2) The authors wanted to create a labor of love, but were under pressure from management to just make an errata. 3) Management wouldve green lighted creativity but the authors just didnt care for slaanesh, and simply wanted to check the boxes that said "new army book" and "power level toned down" and move on.

Where is this noted again? i cant find the page Edit: Oh makes sense, now i see the new posts. Nevermind this