Neverchosen

Hahaha, went back and read the key for the battalions now I feel stupid 🤭 But thank you, I have been busy and I can only look at the rules somewhat surreptitiously throughout the day. I did get a chance to watch a number of the in depth reviews though they probably glossed over it hence my confusion.

Sorry if this is blatantly stated in the rules or covered elsewhere in the thread already but I was curious... can I choose what icon bests suits a unit that can is represented by multiple icons for Core Battalions? For example a Steamtank with Commander could be included as a warmachine or commander, and a Stonehorn with Frostlord could be included as a commander or a monster?

S2D, the monster and hero rules are a major plus. I am not overly concerned about how well my army will play as when we get an update it will likely fix any outstanding concerns that I have. However, I am personally worried about the unit sizes and reinforcements as I have a feeling a lot of my units will need to be changed sadly... I have 2x5 model Chaos Warrior units and 1x20 Chaos Warrior unit. Also I feel like Warcry units will likely also increase as they are sold in such boxes sizes... I think I will just combine the Iron Golems and Untamed Beasts into a single unit if that is the case. 😭 BCR, again no clue how they will fair on the table top but they are going to get a lot more fun with the new hero and monster rules. Overall I am a big fan of many of the new rules and just excited to see the game evolve. I do think some factions will need an updated sooner than others although not due to competitiveness but rules redundancies such as Ossiarch Bonereapers.

Is this confirmed or still a rumour? I really always thought if SCE got a chariot it would have been pulled by a Drakoth but I love the Gryphcharger chariot so much. Maybe as a future hero model? I am hoping we get a small unit of flying wyrms (winged draconic serpents) with stormcast riders.

I thank you my friend, it always nice to receive encouragment from the mightiest Giants! It was a bit overwhelming particularly as I am working from home for the first time and using a lot of new digital platforms. I will get the hang of it but it was a lot to take in at once. No complaints about learning 3rd edition from me after this. 😇 I am hoping to reward myself with Dominion but since I want support a local store I might miss out, in which case I have my eyes on a KO Battle force or Shadow and Pain. They are all in the same price bracket and all set me up for my 3rd and (hopefully) final faction... I desperately want there to be multiple head options. I really want classic Chaos Dwarf players to have big hats. Modern ones the option to choose which aesthetic fits their taste. And as for me I will run all the heroes with big hats and their troops with helmets. In my army you'll have to earn the hat*! 🤠 I learned to play from Ash back when he worked at GW years ago. He is a cool guy and seems to be treating this very much as a demo. He promised more batreps in the Rules review so I expect him to make a more synergistic list and push the strategies more going forward. I just finished watching it and it was a good fun match. Owen also seems like a chill guy and I love his Sky Grots. On to Dark Artisan for me and I also saw MWG uploaded their video. *sadly I will only be able to afford them if they are an expansion of S2D, probably just some troops, a warmachine and a hero. 😢

We are getting some actual battle reports with 3.0 rules: Dark Artisan and Guerrilla Miniature Games are both wonderful content creators so I am pleased to see them getting these batreps out and I am happy to share that love here. Sadly I will not be able to watch either until much later tonight as I am thankfully starting a new job today.

Here are some 3.0 Batreps, I will not be able to watch them until tonight but I am excited to see people going through the new rules with actual models on the table. From what little I was able to glean they both indicate positive receptions to the new rules and seem like they will be fun games. I am still excited for this edition and I look forward to seeing some more games before I get my grubby mits on the rules.

I am with you on everything here, I think my only gripes are around army compositions (reinforcements and possible unit size changes in particular) as I do find it a little vague and over complicated but the end result will hopefully be better balanced games. I will find it frustrating if I have to track down additional Warcry boxes for my Iron Golems and Untamed beasts if their unit size goes up. I have already had to figure out what to do with my chaos warriors either if they go up or if they max at 15. But none of these are gameplay related and more of a meta gripe.

Loving the generic items and spells... also if I ever play Duardin I am giving them the item that makes them into wizards 😆

I was just making fun of my love for underpowered units. Specifically my love of 'elite' armies that do not reflect that moniker on the battlefield 😅

Finally the rules I have been most looking forward too have arrived. Path to Glory is here at last: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/13/take-your-army-on-a-personal-narrative-campaign-in-the-new-editions-path-to-glory/ Also this has to be my favourite illustration yet do we have the name of the artist?

Capes/Cloaks have some defensive properties probably wouldn't pair well with massive halberds but I feel like lightening infused Angels might be able to handle them:

I enjoyed this write up a little more than the previous ones likely because I had lowered my expectations but I am also sad that there is nothing to glean regarding a potential Kurnothi update to the range. Have any rumours regarding Satyr Aelves been bandied about lately? https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/13/the-sylvaneth-have-grown-strong-in-the-rich-soil-of-the-new-edition/

As someone with a ton of chaos warriors you bet I will waste my points on ineffective units, and I have lots of fun trying to not get them smashed. I am not a big fan of the change in unit size but only because of the way I have already built my units 2x5 with dual weapons and 1x20 sword and shield. But I think having the mimimum unit size matching the models being sold is a great idea. I am concerned what that will mean for Warcry models though as they were initially sold in the size of a unit but the box got doubled upon later releases. Same with a number of Stormcast units that initially started in groups of 5 for start collecting boxes and starter sets but sell 10 in their individual boxes.

Wow this is a simple yet brilliant way to improve the character. It would also make him feel like a direct counter/foil to Demon princes choosing a Mark of Chaos.

Yeah it is going to be an interesting time seeing how these characters all interact with the new rules and the more prominent characters are all going to have the biggest changes. I am interested in seeing what happens to ye ol' Celestant Prime. For being Sigmar's right hand, this character has always felt like a slight afterthought on the battlefield which will now be compounded by a lack of Monster keyword. But it is very apparent that SCE are going to get an update to their rules and I can see ol' Prime getting a second swing at greatness. Although the Stardrake has always put the Prime in an odd position as both the named leader of the faction but also the discount centre piece for the army. I wonder if making him a priest would benefit his role on the battlefield? Either way it is a stunning model and cool character that feels like a forgotten alternate choice to the many other cool centre pieces in the army. Yndrasta also compounds this issue by doing the angel thing in a more classical style... I do like that the other major players all feel like they are going to get much better and GW either paired them with monsters or made them into monsters. I think the Celestant Prime is on my mind as I am hoping to get the Star Drake this model better fits my budget.

New Article about command abilities, I feel we have heard about most of these already (although I don't recognize re-deploy) but I really love the illustration: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/12/theres-no-more-pesky-downtime-in-the-new-edition-thanks-to-these-command-abilities/

I find that Archaon point cost to be phenomenally expensive but he benefits greatly from the new heroic abilities and monster abilities. I was hoping to get Dominion and add a Stardrake and have it round out to aprox. 2000 points for a small force of angelic knights. But with this drastic a point increase maybe I should scratch my dragon itch with a less costly Lord on Dracoth, as I suspect I will barely be able to include an additional battleline unit with this level of point increase 😮 Also with the change to Chaos Warrior's min unit size if they still share basic stats with liberators this will provide some more variety between the two units. I am getting more and more interested in how points costs will shake out in the transition between editions. Where are all the points leaks coming from the new General's handbook?

I posted a response about my personal excitement for the new edition and some reservations on the thread discussing the scope of change for 3.0, and I must say I absolutely agree with you my friend. I feel a lot of the anxiety stems from people who are used to a certain style of play. They are mostly worrying about adapting to the new rule system. With such a big set of rule changes there will invariably be concern but it is really telling how people are often saying how this rule impacts 'my army', when often that rule is actually impacting the game. That does not mean that certain rules are not disproportionately impacting certain factions, just that this is a shared anxiety amongst players. I will say that I particularly see a lot of players for many top tier armies, who seem the most hesitant... I want to believe that is GW focusing on balancing the rules that made those armies so dominate... but I also find that a lot of the people playing top tier armies are meta chasers and this will drastically impact the meta so it may just be a more biased perspective.

I had a very long and eventful day and it is possible I will be an inarticulate mess in covering my initial thoughts on many of these new rules, leaks and reveals. I apologize in advance for the lengthy post and often stream of consciousness styled musings. I will state that overall I agree that the changes feel quite drastic and I am both excited and nervous to see what each leak and article reveals. 🤔 Admittedly the changes do feel quite large and always with such changes there is a feeling of hesitancy and trepidation. However, I personally feel cautiously optimistic about almost everything, but it does loose the simplicity that made this game so new player friendly. It was a really fantastic way to introduce my hobby to friends and family many of whom were a little intimidated by past experiences with wargames. Yet, In a way I feel like I am getting back many of the aspects that made me love Warhammer Fantasy without many of the things that I think made that game utterly unwieldy at the best of times. I also have developed a small group of friends that are into the hobby so I feel less pressure of showing new people (although I will always prefer inclusive rulesets). I do think that GW is a little optimistic at how well the current tomes will translate to the new edition considering the breadth of changes but we shall see. Hopefully in play testing they prioritize the books that are least suited for this edition rather than simply go through them in order of which one has been the longest since it's last update (especially as that will likely still involve updating the oldest tomes first). The change to table sizes is a great thing in terms of living in a condo in a massive urban centre. It was really difficult to play having to rely on going to local game stores or the few friends that have room for such massive playing spaces. Now we are open to play at many of our homes which is a fantastic feeling. Even if dimensionally my table is a touch too narrow and slightly too long (I hope those dimensions balance out somewhat). The table size will have an effect on shooting which otherwise seems more or less the same. Higher point costs is a good thing as I am looking to start a new order faction and do not want to create a major collection but it is also something that will change each year and likely trend downward. Hopefully due to the table size this will not be a huge downward trend... heck maybe I will be able to afford Lumineth or Fyreslayers if the points are high enough 😅 I think tighter Unit Cohesion is actually a good thing and I like the more regimental troop arrangements. Visually and strategically I prefer this style than seeing a massive unit break rank and wrap around a blob which always seemed really weird in a loosely historical setting. I do feel the frustration for specific unit types and hope there is some clarification as keeping together units of ogres, trogoths and goregruntas will be a chore. This is one of the most controversial rules and for good reason but I am hopeful that it will have fun strategic implementations. But people much smarter than I am are a little worried, so I am probably missing the obvious. The Hero and Monster rules are a massive win for me. I think that in the epic saga of Gods and Beasts making them more central to the game will help make the paratextual and personal narratives feel more rich. The hero and monster abilities all seem really fun and I love that they have made the combination of monster and hero something truly desirable and suitably epic. Of course this will result in more precarious balance as heroes and monsters may become easily overpowered, so I hope that they will balance units with more hero and monster slaying skills. The command points and command abilities will potentially require more bookkeeping, but I think sound like an improvement to the current case of certain armies drowning in command points while others struggle to gain them at all. I also think the number of generic command abilities makes certain heroes own warscroll abilities feel a touch redundant. But I hope they keep this in mind when updating the battletomes. I was frustrated about the unit size thing but only because I just finished my Slaves to Darkness army and my units sizes do not work perfectly with the new rules. I hate converting models but none of my friends are stickler's for WYSIWG so I can add the overflow of my 20 model shield unit into one of my 5 model dual weapon units. I will also use this as incentive to buy Khagra's Ravagers to give me two alternate Chaos Warriors incase they increase the unit size to 10 so they can replace the Standard Bearer and musician in a unit and I can merge the 5 model units into 10 and leave my Sword and shield unit untouched. I will also get two new heroes that I have wanted for a while. Battalions were one of the things I most disliked in AOS they never felt particularly balanced and were often taken only to lower drop counts or to gain a command point. I think that this new system is applicable to most army compositions and the rewards for taking the battalions feel actually related to their battlefield role. I do think it is sad that certain battalions with narrative functions or important rules will vanish but I think some of these compositions and rules could be included as the basis of new army Subfactions. However, without the key limitations and the feeling that I have to buy certain units that do not interest me. Turn order changes are nice, but I was never particularly against the priority roll off. However, giving more consideration for the roll is ideal as it makes the choice of aiming for a double turn less of a case of always purely benefiting the double turn. I am still not interested in purchasing endless spells but I much prefer what we have seen of the new rules than the older ones. I like the upgrades on the priests and as I run a number in both of my armies this will benefit many other units that always felt like lame wizards. The new models are fantastic and some of the best I have seen for either of their respective lines and if this quality keeps up I am afraid of what will happen to my money. I feel like the lore is improving and the setting of Ghur and focus on Destruction are really exciting. We are also getting an expansion of the pantheon with the likes of Morathi and Kragnos while also getting a greater emphasis on mortal character perspectives. I do find the aesthetic of the new warscrolls pleasing but the icons for the battalions are a miss for me and I spent a lot of my academic career focusing on semiotics. But eventually I will grow accustomed to them and they do look cool I just hate using a key to understand things that could be simply written out. I am still holding out hope for new and more involved terrain rules particularly for siege purposes and also for the much lauded but not truly rumoured idea of wandering beasts. I do think that monsters straight up destroying defensible terrain means that we will likely see some rules but less involved than I initially had hoped. There are probably a host of other thoughts I will share at some point, but it has been a long day and I am exhausted. Writing out my thoughts and feelings on the update show a mixture of excitement and worry. I am hopeful about the new edition and I personally like the majority of changes but I can also see why others are concerned. I truly do emphasize as I have my own concerns, but I really hope people try out the rules before just tossing them aside. Also I look forward to chatting on here about the rules as we develop strategies and try and make sense of anything that is particularly vague opaque in terms of rules, wording and balance. 😁 And if the rules do suck then at least we'll always have Critters and Keys.

I still want the rules for chaos to change into the 1/4 CoS style. I want an undivided general to be able to take allies from an undivided army so in this case BoC and S2D. I want a marked general to take armies from a shared mark... So a Tzangor Shaman can have 1/4 DoT units or marked S2D. I think it would give more people reasons to run Beasts of Chaos and Slaves to Darkness instead of just redundantly stuffing them into a god specific factions. It also gives them access to certain tools without taking away from the unique identity of the God Specific factions. Skaven work really well as an independent faction with only Pestilence and Nurgle tying them to the broader alliances.

I like them for their awesome galleries, but the strategies listed are typically along the lines of Cavalry are fast and with this new command ability they are even faster. Add endless spells to make your wizard more deadly. Grots may not seem strong but become a lot more powerful when fighting in large hordes. Fun stuff that is great for beginners trying to decide an army and get a hang of the rules... just hard to swallow for those of us jonesing for some new edition info. Speaking of which here is the new article full of great art and army shots and generic strategies: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/11/the-new-edition-is-a-buffet-of-delights-for-the-hedonites-of-slaanesh/

*Sad Crab noise*

I really like the battalions but 'Warlord' and 'Command Entourage' seem remarkably similar. I can see how the distinction could matter for a few armies but it still feels rather redundant with a few exceptions. I think that we are missing something as to why you would take one over the other, beyond the few list compositions that feature a number of heroes and monsters/artillery with no basic troops? Are shared drops a thing or is that now restricted to 'Battle Regiment'? As this could explain why someone would chose one over the other.

The funny thing is I run 20 with sword and board and 2 units of 5 with two hand weapons... so either way I will have some conversion work to do... which is not a specialty of mine. 😰