Btimmy

In terms of pure competitiveness, I would still think Praetorians w/ Kata is likely the "best" build, as army wide +1 save is better than ignore rend. Petrifix elite did just get a boost, but only being able to bludgeon one is going to be a big downside.

List is 5 points over

They don't get to do double shots though right, at least not if they are the unit being charged. Other than that yeah I like their stat-line, I just wish I could fit 20 + a RL in the ally slot.

How have these been doing for you? What has been holding me back is you can only do 10 Irondrakes and the runelord because 20 Irondrakes and RL puts you over ally point cap. I don't want to have to use the specific skyport because I think Zilfen and Mhornar are just too good to give up.

Is LoG confirmed dead? I haven't been following what they did with that.

+1 to hit isn't much and isn't super relevant when Katakros remains the best build for OBR.

I wouldn't believe people who are saying this. Being able to dictate who goes first and therefore guarantee that you don't waste a hero phase with nothing to heal/set yourself up for the double is going to be big. Plus, OBR doesn't gain all that much from extra artefacts/whatever.

This interpretation was incorrect then and is still incorrect now. The ability states "wounds," NOT mortal wounds. This is literally what the FAQ is addressing. No point in rehashing this conversation again.

To be fair, this rule was around for a long time. Glad to see it clarified, and uncertain why they didn't just chose to allow the hero to do both. But at least he is a totem so he has increased ranged on CA I guess.

New hero confirmed to not negate mortal wounds with the new FAQ. Must state mortal wound, not just wound in order for it to be negated. In 1.6 of the FAQ. "Q: If an ability says it negates a wound, will it also negate a mortal wound? A: No, unless the ability specifically says it negates mortal wounds. By the same token, an ability that negates only mortal wounds will not negate wounds."

Genuinely curious, what exactly do you think we got? How is the army in any way not worse for the changes? Obviously the one monster we have got access to monster rules, but you don't want that monster in melee anyway.

You don't need to play 3.0 to know that we strictly got worse. Literally zero changes benefitted us in any way, and in fact everything that made all the other armies better actively made us worse.

Spears are actually even worse now that everything can have +1 save for a command point. Guard can already fight a rank deep with swords and are basically immune to the new coherency rules because they are on 25mm bases. As long as all the guard are always base to base with each other you don't have to worry about it.

New coherency rules makes running a unit of 10, even with lances, a nightmare to even attempt to get them all in combat and maintain coherency. Cav is almost certainly relegated to min units due to that change.

That is a great start for the army. Liege Cav and 2x5 death riders are solid units that can/will probably see use in just about every OBR list. That being said, a lot is still unknown about how OBR will function in 3.0 as all of the changes actively hurt the army. Unless you are committed despite the viability of the army currently being uncertain, I would wait until the big FAQ drops before buying in personally.

Less than you might think. Currently the state of the game is such that either a hero is completely dead or untouched. It's very rare to have some form of chip damage on a hero. Normally if a hero is taking damage they are either being hit in melee or shot, and in both cases any good opponent will know to focus them down completely. Our "tankiest" hero has what, 7 wounds? That's not exactly difficult for most armies to most armies to deal in a single turn.

You probably cant outdrop them and if they are smart they will focus down your guard, so I think its best to run 4x10 mortek instead of 2x20. This will force them to split their shots or overcommit to killing a single group of 10. It would be easy for them to focus everything and completely wipe a unit of 20, but 2x10 means they might not split correctly and allow Kata to bring some back. Also, against shooting the harvester is kind of dead weight if they are any good, as they will just blow it up first.

The problem with NM is either the ability is really good, or completely useless and irrelevant with very little in-between. This does not lend itself to winning tournaments or playing against variety of armies. For example playing against someone like Deepkin the ability does basically nothing, but against something like Seraphon it is fairly good. In general, you will probably lose the Seraphon/DoT match up regardless of legion, so it is usually better to plan for beating those that you have better match-ups with.

It's it's interesting that people keep posting these lists with blocks of 40 guard. This is a terrible idea for several reasons, in my opinion. First, in an extremely shooting heavy meta giving them an obvious target to focus all their firepower on means they are going to do so, especially if they are any good at the game. True, it MIGHT not be that they manage to completely wipe the unit from one round of shooting, but many of the meta armies will not blink at putting some 30-35 wounds into that unit. Sure you can bring 3-6 back, but you just gave them an easy target that also costed you roughly 25% of your army. For this reason, I think it is better to bring multiple minimum sized units of guard to force them to split their shots, and guard are still good enough in close combat to be a threat. Second, there are many multi-objective battleplans where you must hold 1-2 "home objectives," contest 1-2 neutral objectives, and ultimately try to take 1-2 opponent home objectives. Investing 440 points into a unit that will only be able to take and hold one of these objectives is asking to lose on multi-objective maps, as you literally are short on units to stand on those points and hold them for you. This is especially dire when your opponent has any sort of threatening deepstrike ability, as you can no longer simply leave your crawlers/kata/support heros naked on your home objectives as you push forward. Lastly, any gamed opponent with fast units will tie up your giant block of guard with garbage units from multiple angles, forcing you to be unable to pile them in effectively, or even forcing you to run/retreat them to be able get them to objectives. You can argue that you would attempt to clear such units with your crawlers, but shooting happens AFTER movement, so even if everything goes well, you would be completely unable to move the unit for the entire turn. Drops don't matter as OBR doesn't really have the luxury of taking battalions, so n my opinion, a better list looks something like this: Allegiance: Ossiarch BonereapersKatakros, Mortarch of the Necropolis (500)- GeneralArch-Kavalos Zandtos (220)Mortisan Boneshaper (130)- Artefact: Artificer's Blade- Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)- Nadirite Blade and Shield10 x Mortek Guard (130)- Nadirite Blade and Shield20 x Mortek Guard (260)- Nadirite Blade and Shield10 x Mortek Guard (130)- Nadirite Blade and ShieldMortek Crawler (200)Mortek Crawler (200)Total: 1950 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 111 You can take an endless spell if you like, or swap the shaper for a mason to give the crawlers rr'ing ones. If you want to abandon magic completely, drop the wizard and take more guard of course, that would be solid too. The general idea to the double down on the crawlers, giving them each an extra attack, and then allowing them to rr1's to wound/ or reroll all wounds from Zandros depending on your opponent. If your opponent makes you go first - Great, you get to buff the entire army and put the big hurt from a round of shooting with your crawlers into them. If they go first, they have to try to and split their shots between your smaller units of guard, kill a hero, or think about shooting the crawlers. No matter the outcome, they probably are now in range to be charged and they've opened themselves up to a double.

Grimghasts are very good. They hit well vs hordes and can actually fight in ranks. I would take them over harridans any day because harridans have 1" reach on 32's, meaning unless you have huge real estate to get all them in, its unlikely that they can all even get into combat. I think people have some strange math-hammered opinions about harridans being good that doesn't translate to reality at all in my opinion.

Hard confirmed no new Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon model, so count that out, but at least we have a date!

And just like that we know that there was no new Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon. Sucks to be right, but it is what is it. I'm overall actually pretty meh on the new ones aesthetically personally, but that could just be my tastes.

The pessimist in me says that with the command point generating system being pretty much the same as RDP, OBR will just be left with a shittier version as we cannot use any of the fancy new charge reaction stuff they put in. It would require actual effort for GW to introduce something to make OBR unique, and I don't really see that happening. I hope I am wrong, but thats where my expectations are at.

Not sure I agree with the hype surrounding the harridans. They still suffer from big bases and bad reach, the bravery based debuff is still pretty unlikely to matter, and their points went up. The 6's to hit instead of wound thing is nice, but I don't think they outperform bladeghiests or grimghasts in the slightest.