RUNCMD

I feel like Tzeentch just plays 6D Chess anyway, so this is fitting!

Thanks for the reply! Turns out my understanding of the way Malign Sorcery was to be used before was incorrect, so that is where my Confusion came from! So many rules for this game! So easy to get confused lol.

Just looking at the new "Realm of Battle Rules" in the GHB2020 and im struggling to find some clarification on whether or not we can still take spells from certain realms in Malign Sorcery if our Army comes from that Realm... In the GHB 20202 it states: "If you decide that your army is from a specific Mortal Realm and wish to make one of your artefacts of power a realm artefact, you must pick the realm artefact for your chosen Mortal Realm from the following pages, instead of using an artefact from Malign Sorcery." Example, if my army is from the Realm or Fire, I can no longer take the Realm of Fire Artefacts, but I can take the Spells from the Malign Sorcery Book related to the Realm of Fire... Then when I play my opponent, we still choose a Realm to d-d-d-duel in, say Ghur for examples sake, giving me also the option to use the Ghus Spell, is that right? OR is it because spells are not mentioned in the quote I took from the book above, that in fact the spells cannot be taken and we are only limited tot he ones in the new GHB?

No you're totally right! And I checked what the DD can be used for and it doesnt say anywhere that the DD can be used for replacing attacks of that nature, and i'll admit, I totally over looked that and just assumed! This is what happens with assumptions though, stuff ups happen! Thanks for clarifying mate! because I've learnt something today and I would hate to rock up to a proper tournament and be like oh yep here we go, then be corrected by my opponent... thats just bad! I agree though, using the forum to clarify rules is important, so i thank you for the insight!

yeah I have A LOT of Blues and Brims sitting in a tub that I havent painted after I bought them all for a previous Daemon heavy Changehost (pre new tome) from back in the day. you could also run 3 units of Pinks easily in that old tome as they were cheap as, but now im like, naaaaaaaah, im good. One unit of Pinks is more than enough really!

hahaha its a bit crazy isnt it! Maybe if they changed it to 1 blue per pink killed and 1 brim for that is fine, I personally love the mechanic as it is now from a thematic/lore stance, just suuuuuper annoying in a friendly battle so I tend to not take them for that reason. I think the new warscroll and the split ability works way better now than what it did in the previous tome, where you counted the blue/brim points then had to summon them in off a hero... that really irked me because it felt as if you lost out tremendously if someone just sniped all your heros and you could effectively bring in another 20 or so blues and change the game objective wise. I'm more so running pinks from a Guant at the moment, and running Arcanite/mortals as my main army. I find them way more interesting at the present.

Yeah unfortunately I see Gaunts going up. But hey, like you said, it's GW right! Lets wait and see, like your mate said. Hopefully we are pleasantly surprised! Do you run Arcanites/Mortals or Daemons mostly?

Yeah flamers at 140 is all they really need imo. probs wont get a discount for taking bigger lots either. RE: Pinks at a 20 man blob, I still think 400 points for a huge unit is more than enough really! That's a lot of points and whilst it is gross in a tournie setting, people pay the propper price for I think! Changehost im really conflicted on. Since the FAQ it went down to one teleport. yes, it's a 1 drop, which is great, but at 180, pinks being 200 (probs going to 220 lets be real) and flamers going up to possibly 140, I think that it staying at 180 is still really exxy and probably going to keep the balance. Just my thoughts though. What I think is that Gaunts should go up by 10 points each. A lot of people agree with me on this in my current scene/stores but by 20 is a bit Broken. but hey, see what happens! Maybe their demon summoning thing will get an FAQ as to only once per game, only one gaunt can do it kind of thing.

I think if they go up to 140 that's still not too bad really. I personally think pinks are where they need to be and don't need a hike. They're nothing but a tar pit really.

Yeah conflagration def takes the cake as the best coven overall but for mortals and arcanites I really struggle to not take profane. Its a lot of fun. Mate the fatemaster is one of the last models im yet to kit bash! Can't wait hey. I think flamers will just see a points hike and not so much a nerf. Tzeentch suffered greatly at the last nerf bat and I dont think anyone will want that ever again nor will they do that to an army again. Well here's hoping anyway

Youre right regarding the two Dice having to sub in the 2 dice for a 2D6 roll. I really need to remember that because its pretty pivotal. As fsr as I am aware though you can use destiny dice to determine the random nature of a Hit Roll because you can sub in the dice for hit rolls, so if the LOC rod if 2D6 Hits i would have to burn those 2 DD and say " I get 8 hits because I used two 4 dices from my pool" and then I roll those 8 to see if they hit. But I could definitely be wrong!

Does anyone happen to know how to fix citadel plastic clippers if they suddenly stop auto opening after cutting plastic? I cant seem to be able to take the tool apart nor see a spring externally?

Played a 1K game the other day with a mate, he played KO, and used the following list: Pyrofane Cult My Destiny Dice were: 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 3, 1, 1, 1 (A great roll imo, buuuut ive def rolled enough bad rolls to make up for this) LOC - General, Shrouded in unnatural flame, chainfire amulet, extra spell was treason of Tzeentch Masiter (On foot) - Extra spell was Arcane suggestion X2, 10 man units of Kairics for BL X1 Unit of Flamers X1 Exalted Flamer X1 unit Screamers Played Focal point (I think) and took first turn. Got the screamers onto the objective opposite mine, got flamers onto the middle objective, kept the kairics on one of each of the objectives in my territory and tagged all 4. Got 6 points end of my turn, was great. Did a bit of shooting, lost the objective in his side, but maintained the middle and mine the whole game, he did a lot of damage to my kairics but not enough to clear bodies to grab an objective, also I used those 1's for battleshock. Used a 6 for some spells with my LOC and also a 6 for his rod of sorcery, and nabbed a 5 in the other part of the roll. Because of Chainfire, any 6s on shooting are D3 mortals, to which I rolled 4 6's out of 11, pretty gross if you ask me but super awesome, and wiped a unit of his (cant remember their names). Also, because of LOC being a Daemon hero and also having the unnatural shroud he was -2 to hit... sooo those pesky KO people were now hitting on 5s and 6s for some and made it even harder for him to die. The flamers took no damage what so ever, dont think he was really concerned about them but they wiped a few units as well. The Magister died after one round of shooting - POS but hey, only took it to get that Chaos spawn on the board and use the command ability to reroll wounds for the kairics (underrated imo, spesh on a huge blob of say 20 or 30!!!) Was a great game and had a lot of fun. KO are not great in combat, kind of like us I guess, but my mate wasnt playing them with a full knowledge of their rules, sooo it could have gone the other way if he had of known all their abilities etc. Think my favourite was the minus 2 to hit on the LOC and the 6s causing D3 mortals... a lot of fun and a great way to psych your opponent out. Screamers died tre quick, and because he widdled down my kairics and my magister was ded, it was going to be a slow grind to summon another unit but I didnt need to in the end. Overall, starting to play more games now with restrictions easing and my new units rocking up in the mail, and im really starting to enjoy the new Tome a lot more. Im running Pyrofane mostly as Ive invested most of my battleline into Kairics, and I dont think you would take anything else, other than Guild of Summoners to get that resistant to battleshock, because the buffs in the Pyrofane coven are actually great when used correctly. Just my thoughts though. Dunno if I would change anything about the game. my deployment and taking first turn was a great bonus to me, and even though I lost the roll for turn 2, it didnt matter. Taking first turn seems to work well for tzeentch now (obviously contextual) and I really like that about the army. Having to always go second feels boring, predictable and what not, but obviously we can still get crushed and pay for losing the double turn. Going to play a game on sunday at 2k, and here is my list: Guild of Summoners Coven (because I havent played it yet and want to get this LOC on the board, even once) Magister on foot - Glimpse the future Ogroid Thaumaturge - Infusion Arcanum Tzaangor Shaman - Arcane suggestion Gaunt Summoner on Disc - Prophet of the Ostensible, Brimstone Familiar, Havent decided extra spell just yet! Blue Scribes - Treason of Tzeentch x2, 20 man unit Kairics x1, 10 man unit of Kairics x1, 6 man Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc x1 unit Varanguard (for the lols) Balewind Vortex (for them scribe bois) Playing against Beasts of Chaos. Should be good, because he's using 3 Ghorgons. Hopefully is a lot of fun and interesting! Will write a cheeky report if anyone is interested! Stay Tzeentchy Fam!

@Jonko thanks for the reply! Nah not looking for an S tier army, more so one that just doesn't get tabled and can hold its own. Ill have to suss the tome and see if anything catches my eye then! I really love the chaos knight models.

Hey all, Thinking of starting an S2D Army in the near future, but reading a lot of the posts here I don't see a lot of positivity with some of the Changes that are coming in GHB 2020 and from what I gather, everything seems to be Khorne orientated that is going to stand up in a competitive setting? Mostly I loved the new models, the chariots, and the Chaos Knights. I wanted to have an army to be able to stand up in both a casual and competitive setting, is that no longer the case for S2D?

Oie Maddpainting gets it! Everyone up in arms because Tzeentch was top tier at Cancon 2020 with Changehost (the best battalion for Daemons only), coupled with the right Coven, pre lock down (minimal stats since), and Changehost got FAQ'd/nerfed straight away. Pink Horrors now work like they should have from the beginning, Gaunts now work way better because you can't take a Baleful realmgate in most tournaments anyway so their ability was void pre new book, flamers finally do something etc and the list goes on. What the new tome did was bring them up to a standard where you can take OTHER things OTHER than Changehost hey. In the previous tome there were some good things you could take Battallion wise, but Changehost was the only Battallion worth looking at other than Arcanite Spam and then if you took Tzaangors back then you were "that guy". It also brought Tzeentch to a level where it wouldn't just get tabled. I was playing them in their last tome and if I didn't run Changehost, I barely stood up against most opponents because I wasn't running Arcanites. Losing a Hero that you need to summon in Blues/Brims because of how the Pinks used to work, man that was annoying and almost made the pinks not even worth it imo. People need to chill and remember that Tzeentch has been under performing in so many ways before the new tome, and there are bigger things to worry about now days! Honestly, their new tome has given them so many options and they are a lot of fun to play. You really can get either Melee Heavy, Shooting Heavy or just Magic Heavy, but you cant do ALL at once in a list imo! I say jump right in, pick either Daemons or Arcanites to start with, and expand from there! The Start collecting box for the Daemon side of things is such great value for what you get! Grab two of these if you want to start with daemons because you just have that many options of what you can turn them into (I converted my blue scribes from this box and still have so many spare bits for other things)!

Yeah i've been looking at some warscrolls that have had lifts and doing some thinking and some seem off! But also, I updated my original post saying that I cant confirm if the leak is real or not because of some much conflict in the sources etc, so I apologize for that!

I cant confirm if these are real or not now! Multiple theories / discussions so lets take these with a grain of Salt for the moment! More leaks here: https://twitter.com/Chumphammer Edit: Updated statement about above points being confirmed as a solid source of info because it could be fake news!

Thats cool you get the GHB already. Can you explain how it is already obsolete?

Im still yet to play the new seraphon really because of lock downs but I hear they're pretty brootal and trump Tzeentch in a lot of ways. Same for Lumineth now, apparently they are pretty magicy and also sturdy. Its going to be interesting when GHB releases.

My Predictions for points changes in GHB Twenny Twenny: - Gaunt on foot up to 260 - Gaunt on disc up to 280 - Lord of Change down to about 360, maybe slightly less ( I reckon it should be at 350/340 imo) - Fatemaster up to 130 or not changed at all (dont think he needs it tbh) - Blue Scribes up to about 130/140 (not that they need it, and I think they should stay where they are at) - Kairics might go down to 80? But I doubt it (i'd like to see them drop though) - FLAMERS! up to 150! (no doubts here) - Exalted flamers up to 120 (in line with the flamers) - Screamers MAYBE down to 70 (doubt it) Thats all I really think would change atm. Pinks I think are fine where they are and I think anything more than 200 and people just won;t ever take them and this is not a way to balance an army, but hey, we have seen GW nerf Tzeentch before so could happen again. I personally don't think the Gaunts need to go up for both variants, I reckon they are costed pretty well at the present and if anything the Gaunt on Foot could drop by 20 (max though) given its pretty slow and so squishy. Disc Gaunt will def go up though imo, although it'd be a nice surprise if it stayed the same. One thing I would love to see drop in cost is the Mutalith. If it dropped to 150 I'd probably take two in a list for much shenanigans!

Hey Evil Bob, do you use many Chariots at all in your lists? If so, how do they fair? I'm really curious and also condiering building one but also, I feel I could use some of the model parts for conversions/not sure if Chariots hold their weight? Interested in your thoughts!

@Arcce damn! No good to hear you got smashed but if you learnt something it was all worth it! Tzeentch as an army can be super fickle hey, especially when we rely so heavily on those clutch dice rolls and if you don't have the destiny dice to back it up, offfft you can fall fast on your face lol. Profane for acolytes is very good, spesh giving us the rend etc. I use profane for competitive stuff because I find, and exactly as you mentioned, LOC needs to be on the board asap if not build him into the list. I'm hanging out to see how flamers go up in the generals handbook (I'm thinking they will go up to 150 and the exalted flamer up to 120) before putting them into lists atm, but they could be good for adding in some variety! I really feel that the Tzaangors lost out a bit in our new tome for sure. But there's some cool stuff you can do with them. Thanks for the update and reply on the battles! When I'm in front of a computer ill share the lists I'm working with if you want?

Yeah just saw this in the core rules. Its a really interesting debate so im glad we got to the bottom of it because its better to clarify than rock up to a tournie and have to rework your battalion or list because of fine print. Thanks for the input around this. @Duke of Mousillon thanks for the discussion. I got a lot of knowledge out of this and didn't question it before but now I guess we know!

@Duke of Mousillon I have found this in the core rules, which is interesting! It says that you can include the title of the unit, and can ignore the sub headers unless it calls for that sub-header. Looking st the EOD their "on Disc" part seems to be a sub-header? I think? Therefore could be taken right? Anyway, let's see if someone can weigh in. Either way I think ill magnetise my Tzaangor Enlightened now