ZLee Syn

You dont have to reroll all dice right? So If 2 are same and 3rd diferent you reroll just one dice. I am not sure If your calculations used that

I am learning here too but I will try to answer and hopefuly @Goddin will correct me. Palanquin is there only for batalion. obviously you want to keep him close but objectives are more important. You make your models more durable by minimising atacks back. If you charge from 2 sides, middle will not be able to pile in because of coherency. Neferata is the fastest and has smaller base so you can chose fights that she is equiped for. Horde armies are slow and this list is not. You try to move first turn to them and block them either by screen or combat so they cannot get to objectives. If enemy has huge unit on objective, 2 dragons will usualy take care of it and then because it was big,you capture by 2 dragons since enemies cannot be close. You can block summons by rasps since they need to be summoned near edge. If you want bloodknights, just drop the batalion and bloodseeker for them. Then you can also exchange rasps for wolfs to get cogs.

Yea, it seems like a very complex but also very fun list. For example that tip of atacking from 2 sides heavent come to my mind before. Is there ever asituation when you get first turn and then willingli get enemy doubleturn to prolong neferatas command ability?

Generaly most of the LoN units are good. Just as with old VC, they rely on synergies. First you need to chose a legion. There are 5 options, blood, night, sacrament, grief and grandhost. Grief is probably out since its main advantage are nighthaunt models. Night buffsyour skeletons, can be defensive and score objectives with ambush or just ambush powerful unit to the backline. Blood focuses on vampires, without dragon or alot of bloodknights it is not worth in my opinion. One of 2 options where you can play neferata. Sacrament is magic heavy. Great but I feel like arkhan is present in most list. Can certainly be good without him , especialy on 1500. Dont know if you dont suffer much by not habeing endless spells. Grandhost focuses on resurecting. Also you can use neferata and she doesnt even need to be a general. That is huge. Regadles of your choice, necro is great, skeletons are also very good in large numbers. Wolfs are also very cheap for their stats and the fact that they are battleline. Zombie dragon is also one of the best option in lon book. There are not that many shock troops/rend acces so remember this when building the army.

And what about slaanesh. Is -2 to hit enough to minimise the damage from keepers before you can strike back?

@Goddin how do you deal with horde armies? How do you hold objectives? And do you think this is still playable with gotrek in huge percentage of games?

I would like some help with this list Neferata Vampire lord on zombie dragon -ethereal amulet Prince vhordrei 2x5 wolfs 40 spear skeletons Extra command point Cogs This leaves 150 points for something. Probably Necro or maybe corpse cart for +1 to cast. What do you think? I wanted to create court of nulahmia list but I think it might not be a good idea in my meta.

Court of nulahmia lists (double dragons) were able to get decent standings in some tournamets (even few wins) and it is the most played batalion in LoN

I personallytried VLoZD with ethereal amulet and mistform Mannfred Vhordrei 10 blood knights 2x3 vargheists +1 to cast bloodline Only one game against fatesworn chaos but it was a masacre. The fact that mannfred doesnt have to be general is huge advantage. I feel like he is better then second dragon but first normal dragon is a must. Mistform is just too good.

No, chainrasp are always battleline. Grimghast reapers are battleline only in nighthaunt.

No argunents there. This was just my reasons why I think 1 extra command point is better then 10 skeletons. Especialy in list where you have a command ability that you want to use each turn. Easiest way to prevent doubleturn is going second. That means going for a batalion. I feel like batalions are quite expensive in legions for their rules but the advantage of less possible doubleturns is maybe even more important in legions then in other armies.

Yes you can. Btw range is whatever is measured from the caster. So vile transference heal range will not change since that is measured from target.

I feal like ethereal amulet is better on zombie dragon. Cloak is great if you have 2 dragons so both strike before their oponent. With mobility and good cover from other units it should be unlikely that your dragon is charged

Well, yes but after you depoy your infantry they will be slow and you want to move with dragon, get him to fights you want. Necro is squishy but with his ability to take skeletons as cover he can survive suprisingly much

I wouldnt use lord of nagashizar since I feel like your dragon is losing mobility by keeping with slow skeletons/GG. Knights are faster so tha might work but I am not sure. Personaly I would either take diferent hero as a general with lord of nagashizar (like necro) to split oponents focus between dragon and general or took diferent command trait. Either ancient strategist or Aura of aegis (probably aura of aegis). But if You want to play this list then I would took it under Legion of night (you would lose one battleline which would need adjusting) for that save bonus, ambushes and also diferent command trait (like swift form)

Some great adivice. I totaly forgot that you can doubleuse neferatas comnand ability

Obviously But here points are so limited that every point counts

I have decided to go with this Neferata (od, general) Dragon (pinions, ethereal amulet) Dragon (pinions, orb of enchantment) Bloodseeker (transference) 5 Wolfs 5 wolfs 10 chainrasp Gravetide Cp Court of nulahmia If i encounter problems with scoreing, i will drop gravetide, 1 wolfs and cp for zombies and 20 chainrasp instead of 10. If you have tips and tricks I am all ears. Thanks for help

Well, I take it that 1010 is not legal for 1000 point game but if you are starting I guess that is ok. Command point is very important for several reasons. 1) if your oponent starts he can damage your units and you still dont have command point to ignore battleshock or rerolling saves of 1 (not as important in 1k games) 2) you want to use mannfred command ability each turn. This say you can resurect one dead unit and still be able to use mannfred command ability that turn. 3) you need to use mannfreds command ability in hero phase. It can happen that you use it but then you roll double 1s to charge. 1 spare command point means you can reroll that charge. Usualy first turns are most important so that one charge or crucial resurect while still maintaining mannfreds rerolls can turn the game in your favor. Imagine that you resurected your skeletons. Without extra cp (command point) your mannfred strikes with his sword at 2+/2+ if you casted a spell. It is a huge diference if you can reroll 1s. If you want to add 10 skeletons, throw out one wolfs and increse skeletons to 30.

There are 3 females on coven throne, neferata and if you search you might find old vampire lord and Isabella von carstein models.all of them are vampires but you can always greenstuff them

Yes, either grandhost of nagash or legion of night. You can use more skeletons for sure. I created this list the way I would build it with start collecting box. Wolfs were chosen because you get 10 in one box (so more points for money), they are mobile which is always good and theyare diferent unit so you can try another thing. If you had 10 more skeletons i would run 30 skeletons and 5 dogs. If you had 40 skeletons then go with 30 and 10 but it is not the best option. Its always better to combine stuff. I havent wrote it there but you get 1 bonus command point in that list.

If I would suggest a list it would be something like this Manfred Necro 20 skeletons 2x5 dire wolfs 5 black knights Either night with claw on necromancer Or grandhost with necromancer general, lord of nagashizar and that artefact with 6+ negations for your units. Mannfred because he is most killy out of the 3. Neferata is more defensive but your other units dont provide as much punch for that to be worth it. Arkhan is great but then you have almost none damage in close combat. If you have a vampire already then you can exchange necro for vamp. Nef and vamp heal even better then necro but necro buffs and debuffs are so strong that it is definitely a good investment. There are 2 reasons to start with units in the grave. Skeletons have move 4 but you can use your fast hero (like vampire with 10) to move then chose grave in 9, then pull skeletons near that point. 28 move instead of 4. That way your infantry can get to combat at the same time as your fast hard hiting units. This helps you secure position and protect your more valuable units. Second is to hide cheap unit and then move with hero, and pull them at a point im the end to score points. Range is move of hero + 18 (distance to grave and from grave) + 6 (area to secure point) so almost everywhrte. Just remember to setup graves well

As for how to start. Go for one of the start collecting boxes. I know I have said that mortarchs are risky to play but on smaler points (1000) they are strong because there is not as many magic/shooting in your oponents army. There are 3 possible start collecting boxes. Skeleton horde is probably the best. It is quite flexible, you can assemble either black knights or hexwraiths and anyone out of 3 mortarchs (neferata, manfred, arkhan). Malignant box is also quite good. Mortis engine is great if you go for more magic oriented army but it can also be assembeled as coven throne (or bloodseeker but that model is only ever taken with court of nulahmia). Again black knights or hexwraiths 3rd option are flesh eaters. Yes, they are not part of legions but flayers have same kit as vargheists and terrorgheist as lord on zombie dragon. You can always sell ghouls or use them for some conversions. Still worth it even if you dont use them. Since those boxes dont provide enough battlelines i would grab one battleline unit (wolfs since they are always good pick no matter what you play). After few games I would increse skeletons to 40 (or pick diferent block) and then you will see.

And about list building. Most of legions units are bad. They need synergy to make them strong. If you manage to trade point for point with enemy then you will win due to resurection. There are few units that are strong on their own (like lord on dragon) but most of your units need support to do stuff. That means that you shouldnt just take units because they are good. You need a plan how you want to win and then pick units acording to your plan. Huge weakness to legions is lack of rend. Very few units have rend and out of those, most are expensive units that cannot be resurected. You need to take that into consideration. Most of warscroll batalions are bad outside of very special ocasions. They are quite expensive and most require mortarch which is often dangerous (they arent hard to kill but if you lose them you lose both expensive model and resurection). They also often include models that you dont want to play, units that you dont want to play that many of or units that dont have synergy with each other. Most usable might be the lors of sacrament since all of those units are good and you would probably play them anyway in sacrament. Courn of nulahmia can be used to give your 2 dragons even more mobility but outside of that it is too expensive with very small benefit. Deathmarch can be used but was nerfed very hard by faq. I will not even mention the others. Generaly you want at least one block of infantry. 40 skeletons, grimghasts or graveguard in grandhost will do the trick. Use cheap units to fill battlelines requirement (wolfs are amazing for their points but 10 chainrasps is also an option. There is nothing wrong with 10 zombies if you dont have points and reqire more bodies). You can almost never go wrong with necromancer so grab one or two. I would say this is the core of almost every legion army. After that it comes to preference, legion and style of play. I think Lord on Dragon is almost always worth it (especialy with ethereal amulet from realm of the dead) but isnt as required as necromancer. Generaly speaking try to stay away from mortarchs if you dont play grandhost or dont have special plan since they die fast and cost alot.

I wil try to write a summary and what makes each army special. All legions can return dead units back and heal damaged units. General is very important because without him/her you cannot return dead units back and then you might lose war of atrition. Each legion belong to one mortarch that needs to be general if you include any mortarch. Legion of blood. Belongs to neferata and it is most agresive out of all legions. It gives bonus atacks to vampires and reduce bravery of enemies. If you play this then you will definitely want to run vampire lords on dragons and/or blood knights. Dragons areone of the best units in legions even without this boost and this makes them even more powerful. Downside is that your magic is not as powerful and because you cannot resurect vampiric units you lack staying power and will probably lose long fights. This has one small upside. If your general dies it isnt as painful since huge part of your army cannot be resurected anyway so you can chose more agresive options Legion of sacrament. Belong to arkhan and focuses heavily on magic. Plan is to either damage enemies with magic or debuff them and then wing long fights with resurections. Live and die with magic and wizards. I would say that it is more on the defensive side and will probably win more games by points then just destroying everything and then scoring when there is no enemy to defend. Legion of night. Manfred rules here and he rules smart. This legion is not as powerful in combat as blood and not as magical heavy as sacrament. This legion is smart. It can set units in reserve and then put them out when needed. Also your deathrattle are more durable in your teritory. Usualy you can hide small cheap units and force enemy to use some units to protect his points or just take those points when they are unguarded. You can hide strong units and then pincer from 2 sides, spliting oponents forces. Also many oponents overthing things and then one unit outside of the table can tie in multiple enemy units. Sort of jack of all trades legion. Many options but require creative general to work. Grand host of nagash. I guess you understand who is the leader here. Generaly focused on resurection and sustain of units. Important thing is that it can include mannfred, neferata and arkhan and still can use some other leader as general. Can use Nagash but that isnt required. Usualy defensive army that either win by atrition or nagash. Legion of grief. Belongs to lady olynder. It exchanges soulblight (vampiric) units for ghosts. Either tries to reduce enemy bravery and then destroy them with screams or use multiple command abilities to buff units (usualy myrmourn banshees) and then send them to kill stuff. If that unit dies it can always come back. Ghosts are very strong against powerful units (because they dont lose saves to rend) and even stronger when you can return the dead ones. Soulblight are just vampires. This army cannot use most non-vampiric units and cannot resurect units. This means they are even more agresive then legion of blood. They dont get +1 atack as legion blood vampires but they gain special bonuses based on chosen bloodline (extra move, better magic, better hits on charge...). It can include manfred and neferata and they dont have to be general (huge advantage). Not as competetive but they got stronger with recent point reductions. Downside is that you dont have any small units to protect your knights from charges and without charges you lose your punch. This can be overcome by allies or mercenaries.