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Maturin

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    Cities of Sigmar : Lists and synergies tactica

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    @zilberfrid :

    "Greywater Fastness

    • Cogsmith 
    • Rockets
    • Rockets
    • Volleys
    • Volleys
    • Batallion
    • General
    • 20 Greatswords
    • 40 Guards
    • 30 Crossbows
    • Celestial Hurricanum w wizard
    • 70 points for endless spells"

    I'm not a fan of old empire artillery in AOS. I found them unreliable damage wise and they can go BOOM. What do you guys thinl about them ? Hellstorm battery could theoretically do 3D6 shots but they could do nothing, even with an engineer nearby! Wouldn't an artillery list be better with some SCE balistas ? They're more reliable when you put in an Hurricanum + LO (hit on 3's, RR 1s if you ve got an azyros) OR, if you've got the points, you could ally some High Elves balistas, which are very reliable 36" range, 12 shots, rend -1, 1D wounds on 3s. 3 OF them would cost 360 points.

    Cities of Sigmar : Lists and synergies tactica

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

    Well if I can get in a celestant prime somehow I’ll be really happy then

    Should be fun yeah, unless I'm mistaken though, SCE heroes won't be able to use their abilities on non SCE units, for example, a Lord-Castellan couldn't shine his lantern on a freeguild guards unit. That's a shame, because SCE heroes would open a lot of synergies.

    Cities of Sigmar : Lists and synergies tactica

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

    So I understand that Aventis Firestrike can be your general in a Hammerhall army.

    but I’ve heard people talking about taking lord arcanum on tauralon.

    Can you just select any stormcast hero to be your general? 

    Yeah, there should be no such limitation. The only one we know of is that 1 unit in 4 may be SCE. That's all.

    AoS 2 - Cities of Sigmar Discussion

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    So, after viewing the video review of the COS battletome; I feel like those battalions aren't great, except one or two. The Hammerhalian Lancers for ex is very disapointing.
    It's not enough mix and match for me. It would have been great for ex to be able to run SCE cavalry inside this battalion.

    Cities of Sigmar : Lists and synergies tactica

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    12 minutes ago, madmac said:

    I haven't internalized all the point changes yet, but it's interesting to note that Greatswords are now 160/10 making them one of the most expensive infantry units in CoS.

    Also going from the early reviews on Youtube, there aren't any hidden subfaction rules or anything. the GHB rules only apply if you are using that allegiance instead of Cities.

    City abilities are a bit more substantial than early previews have let on though, most cities give at least two bonuses plus general traits, artifacts, spell lores and at least one city with a prayer lore, IIRC. Every city has one associated Warscroll battalion.

    Did you get the points from the video posted in CoS discussion ?

    Cities of Sigmar : Lists and synergies tactica

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, dekay said:

    Also, you can now get rerolls of 1 for anything from basic command abilities, so any skills granting it are much less useful than they were before. Generally speaking, any unit that lost their rerolls for flat +1 can still add them back on top of it for the cost of CP.

    And if you're low on CP or want to use it for wound rerolls, you still have the Knight Azyros for 100points.

    Cities of Sigmar : Lists and synergies tactica

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Kyriakin said:

    Does that Kharybdyss howl stack? I'm picturing a Kharybdyss gangbang (which would reduce anyone's bravery) right now, with venn diagrams of multiple bravery dubuffs.

    Unless there's a rule in the core book saying one unti can't be affected multiple times from the same enemy ability, there's nothing preventing it in the Kharybdiss warscroll.

    Cities of Sigmar : Lists and synergies tactica

    in Cities of Sigmar

    Posted · Edited by Maturin

    Hey guys,

    so, the BT is out now, so I think it's tiem for thread to evolve. I deleted all the changes we've noted down and I will start a synergy/Tactics list so we can all easily find what's good or not quite easily, instead of having to go through literraly several dozens of pages.

    Here we go :


    Possible Combos (before battletome is out) :

    One quick combo that @dekay noticed: griffon's, dark riders' and kharybdiss' bravery buffs seem to  stack with one another. If you use all 3, we're talking about -3 bravery to anything near them.

    Outriders. Battleline and required for the battalion, so naturally, worth taking. For 100 pts you get 5d3+5 4+/3+/-1 shots. City's warlord trait adds +1 to wound. They have +2 to run and can shoot afterwards. In battalion they can also retreat and shoot. First turn threat range: up to 41 inches. Like.. damn.  Oh, and they have, of course, easy access to the Hurricanum [that, with 13+d6+1 run furst turn move can keep up with them] for +1 to hit, and wildform, for +2 additional threat range on one unit. 

    MATHHAMMER

    MathHammer from @Frowny
     

    MATHHAMMER REVIEW PT 1.: THE SHOOTENING from @swarmofseals

    I've completed my basic number crunching for shooting, and wow is this book's balance tight! I'm going to split things out into different categories and go in depth from there.

    A note on the statistics I am using: I use a self made formula called Weighted Damage Rating to compare damage types across rend. It's not perfect but it gives a pretty accurate estimate of the value of different rend types and mortal wounds. Note that it is a measure of efficiency not absolute power: it shows basically the average expected damage (weighted for rend) that a unit will cause per point that you spent on it.

    For defense, I use simple defensive efficiency: the expected wounds pre-save wounds it will take to kill a unit per point that the unit cost. I provide two ratings, one vs. rend - and one vs. mortal wounds. Performance for other rend types will fall somewhere in between these two numbers.

    In both cases higher numbers are better.

    I've used max unit sizes for all calculations.

    ARTILLERY

      Hide contents

    Helblaster Volley Gun offense: .0216/.0251/.0287/.0335 for long range no engineer/long range engineer/point blank no engineer/point blank engineer firing 2 decks. For 3 decks its: .0194/.0291/.0259/.0388. This math assumes that with an engineer you will reroll any double and keep any other result. This may not be quite optimized. 

    Helstorm Rockets offense: .0255/.0297 for salvo without/with engineer. Numbers are lower if you don't use salvo fire. 

    Celestar Ballista: .0235/.0469 for single/multi shot

    Analysis: 

    Overall these numbers are quite low at baseline, but they can be buffed quite a bit. A Lord-ordinator would help, and it might be that with the Greywater Fastness battalion, a Lord Ordinator, and a Runelord you can start getting things up to respectable levels for at least a turn. Personally I think there are better choices but I could see it working.

    MISSILE INFANTRY

      Hide contents

    Offense:

    Darkshards: .0671 - can benefit from additional +1 to hit/+2 to wound

    Crossbows: .0674/.112 without/with freeguild general CA - can benefit from additional +1 to hit

    Handgunners: .0611/.0954 without/with freeguild general CA - hit/wound capped

    Irondrakes: .0827/.0876/.1026/.1082 non-monster/monster/with runelord buff vs. non-monster/with runelord buff vs. monster. Can benefit from +1 hit and +1 wound.

    Shadow Warriors: .0406/.0672 outside/inside cover. Can benefit from +1 to wound (+1 to hit/+2 to wound outside cover)

    Sisters of the Watch: .0877/.1096 without/with Nomad Prince CA. Can benefit from +1 wound.

     

    Defense:

    Darkshards: .15/.1 vs. r- and mw respectively

    Crossbows/Handgunners: .12/.1

    Irondrakes: .133/.067 vs. melee .2/.067 vs. ranged

    Shadow Warriors: .136/.091

    Sisters of the Watch: .09375/.0625

     

    Analysis:

    I think every one of these units is viable. While some clearly have much more efficient offense than others, the ones that have lower offense have other strengths that give them a role. Specifically, Darkshards enjoy greater mobility and have a bit more room for buffs than the other warscrolls. They don't need to stand still to get full value. Shadow Warriors, on the other hand, get that nice deepstrike.

    The other options are all quite close together. For all of those folks upset over the crossbow nerf: it was needed. Crossbows are still the most efficient choice at baseline and they also enjoy excellent range. Their downside is that they can't stand and shoot. Aside from raw efficiency, their major buffer (the Freeguild General) can tag three units for one CP, which makes these a great choice as the backbone of a gunline.

    Handgunners are still very good, albeit noticeably less efficient than crossbows. They do get the benefit of stand and shoot, however. They also have a more potent champion than most other units, with the long rifle providing very valuable hero sniping. Handgunners could be great in large numbers as a frontline or screen or good in MSU configuration to get a bunch of long rifles. The fact that the Freeguild General tags three with one CP could go a long way toward making MSU doable. It's worth noting that with just the FG buff, these guys should be at 2+/2+, so they don't benefit from any further buffs to scale them.

    Irondrakes are a bit tougher and fall between crossbows and handguns in terms of efficiency. That said they offer nice rend, especially when buffed by a Runelord. If you want rend at range, these guys are a great choice. They don't get stand and shoot, but they sit at 3+/3+ normally and thus can be scaled to be even more efficient with further hit and wound bonuses. If you can get Irondrakes to 2+/2+, they end up much more efficient than even crossbows. That said, you do need a Runelord for every unit and even then the buff will sometimes fail... so it might not be viable to take 90 of them in the way you could with crossbows. Note that they do perform better than either handgunners or crossbows at baseline without any buffs.

    Sisters of the Watch are almost as efficient as crossbows with basic buffs, can benefit from an extra +1 to wound, are more efficient without buffs, and can stand and shoot. All around great, but the most defensively inefficient. EDIT: corrected misinformation about the Nomad Prince CP.

    MISSILE "CAVALRY"

      Hide contents

    Offense:

    Gyrocopter bombs (once per battle): .06

    Gyrocopter steam guns: .0074 per model hit (again, I'm assuming the full size three copter unit)

    Gyrobomber bombs: .0514

    Gyrobomber clattergun: .0253

    Outriders: .0443/.0831 without/with general buff

    Pistoliers: .0443/.0886 not charging/charging. I didn't factor in the general buff here because it's not realistic to pull off with Pistoliers.

    Dark Riders: .0285

    Scourgerunner Chariots: .0838

     

    Defense:

    Gyrocopters: .1333/.067

    Gyrobombers: .143/.071

    Outriders: .15/.1

    Pistoliers: .15/.1

    Dark Riders: .222/.111

    Scourgerunner Chariots: .18/.12

     

    Analysis:

    Dark Riders are the only warscroll with really weak shooting efficiency. I was surprised at how good the chariots are. I don't think I'd take Outriders personally, but they are fine if you like them. Pistoliers are a bit more interesting, albeit at very short range. The gyros are both potentially very useful. The Gyrobomber can pick off heroes quite effectively with the bombs and the clattergun adds a bit of extra damage. The copters have a one shot bomb, but their steam guns can really do work against hordes. If you can reach 13 models with each copter, they will be just as efficient as any of the infantry (not counting the bombs either).  

    EDIT: Steam Tanks!

      Hide contents

    Steam Tank Cannon: .0121/.0161/.0202 default/+1hit/+2hit

    Steam Gun: .0146/.0194 default/+1hit

    Steam Gun (more pressure): .0188/.025 default/+1hit

    Defense: .18/.06

    The commander version will just be 25% worse on each mark.

    Overall, I think these fall flat unfortunately. Even with impact hits and their command ability running their melee profile is also terrible. Combine that with random move and you have a very cool unit that just doesn't measure up.

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