Thamalys

Fair point @Hannibal - probably not. Here follows a version with no abbreviation whatsoever... Some of my favourite... (1) Spirit Hosts: fantastic screens, very hard to get rid of (especially if using Ruler of the Spirit Hosts), and surprisingly punchy if you have 6-9 of them in one unit. When you manage to roll 6+, mortal wounds hurt everyone, big monsters included. Paired with a Dreadblade Harrow as a General, they don't suffer from their low mobility, making them a very, very solid choice as Battleline. You'll hate them badly when the time comes to actually put together the models, though - oh, the pain... (2) (MORE. MANY MORE) Grimghast Reapers: in Nighthaunts, I usually go for 20 instead of 30 as keeping them within 12" (essential for many things...) becomes quite hard otherwise. They are now quite costly, but still amazingly good. People fear them as well, which is something you can and should leverage. (3) Bladegheist Revenants: hard-ish hitters. I have 4 units of 5 (very manoeuvrable), can be used in the Shroudguard Battalion for somed durability in conjunction with a mounted Knight of Shrouds and - essential- a Spirit Torment. When they re-roll hits they can be quite nasty. He's also an absolute joy to paint, I like the model very very much indeed. (4) Reikenor the Grimhailer, you should have already: because the entire point with Nighthaunts is that ephemeral 9" charge, and because of that you need the Chronomantic Cogs - which in turn require that sweet +3 to cast that only Reikernor can provide. It's an investment (170+80=250 pts, I believe?), but a good one in my opinion. Get those Chronomantic Cogs! (5) Various support characters of your choosing: Guardian of Souls for Reapers, Spirit Torment and/or Knight of Shrouds for Blades... a Vampire Lord (flying Horror essential) is, I find, a very good addition. Combine it with a mounted Knight of Shrouds and for 2 Command Points your 20 Grimghast Reapers are dishing out some 80 attacks... plus D3 back on three different units within (not wholly within) 12", and he's a caster. Which can heal D6 once/battle and as opposed to a Guardian of Souls can also kill something (little). That might be even too much? With the Chronomantic Cogs on top you'll get a +4 on the charge... a 5" charge is > 80%... Hope this helps!

It is very true that BKs can and will whiff, I do agree. Everything you need is a command point, though. Your VLoZD CA can make them re roll all failed hits. Raiders and mounts as well. They have been deleting very serious stuff for me when buffed, even when forced into not getting a charge. It is also true that it’s tricky to heal them, but aside for the 1 wound upon a killing we have Vile Transferance, the Emerald Swarm... and, I am very happy to feed dire wolves into the opponent for the entire game. I have multiple units of dogs, 70 pts each is not much for killing points and they come back easily enough. Not to mention the healing... gravesites and heroes alike, their staying power is not zero. Granted - but the Locus of Shyish is there for other Legions as well. That’s what LoN and LoS do best, I guess, but it’s not LoB? I’m definitely with you as it concerns Neferata - our takes on BKs might differ, but about Our Beautiful Queen there is no question at all!

What I am trying to say is that, with respect to a Nighthaunt army, if you have, say, 10 units in total, of which two of them are allies, you can only put 4 units in the Underworld, not 5. That’s because the Core Rules state that “an allied model [...] cannot use or benefit from your army’s allegiance abilities”, and From the Underworld they Come is one of those. That’s how I’ve always played it - there’s nothing in the wording of the ability that prevents you to do so. If the ability was meant to enforce alternating units on and off the table, I would think the wording would have been quite different. @Spears is reporting a different experience, though, and I have been wrong before!!

Same here - in tournaments as well. The wording of From the Underworld They Come says: "You can set up one unit in the underworlds for each unit you set up on the battlefield", while the wording for the Battalions says: "you can set up some or all of the units from a warscroll battalion at the same time rather than setting up each unit individually". None of these constraints prevent you from setting up any number of units within your battallion wherever you like, Underworld included - as long as, of course, you don't brake the 50% rule. Caveat: allies do not count toward that 50% (darn). I had a (very relaxed) discussion once with one opponent who initially intepreted "one unit in the underworlds for each unit you set up on the battlefield" as if you have to set one unit in the battlefield first in order to be allowed to put one in the Underworld. However, they very quickly agreed that was not the case. Starting your deployment with units in the Underworld is one of the few NHs perks (as it leaves the opponent with harderd choices in terms of their deployment). In addition, I have seen the same reasoning being applied for e.g. Stormcast Eternals in multiple occasions...

I was thinking about this as well... perhaps the key bit in the Dolorus Guard description is that you "roll a dice before you allocate a wound or a mortal wound to your general", while Deathless Spirits enforces you to "Roll a dice each time you allocate a wound or a mortal wound". So that's how I'd interpret the interaction between the two: The General (who is within 3" of a unit of 5 Hexwraiths belonging to the Dolorous Guard) rolls his saves, let's say they fail two for a grand total of two wounds. Because of the "before" in the Dolorous Guard description, these two wounds must be alloacated (on a 2+) on the said Hexwraiths. We roll two dice, one of them is a 1, the other on is a 2. One of the wounds cannot be allocated to the Hexwraiths, and thus must be allocated on the General: at that point, Deathless Spirit kicks in. Let's say we roll a 6 (because Nagash is all and all is Nagash), that wound does not reach our general after all. The other wound (the one we have allocated on the Hexwraiths) gets allocated to the Hexwraiths instead: at that point, Deathless Spirits kicks in as well, and we can try to roll for it. Let's say we roll another 6 (because of the undying glory of the Greatest Necromancer), no wound reach our Hexwraiths. That's my take - happy to be corrected, folks...

I like your idea of list (big fan of Spirit Hosts, for one thing!), but let's face it, there is no reason to run it as a Legion of Blood list. Yes, +1 attack on all the VLoZD melee weapon is fantastic, but that's it. Your regular vampire lord doesn't want to get into combat with anything serious (5 wounds?! In my experience, it never lives long enough to drink from his chalice!), so quite literally that's it. You're running Legions of Blood for a single VLoZD. And the -1 bravery thing, ok, but other legions have other means to achieve that, and it's not the one thing you can/should rely on. With two/three VLoZDs and two/three units of Blood Knights, you are getting a lot of +1 attacks for free, which, I believe, is the true strength of this Legion. In my list (and many others, I am sure), everything aside of direwolves can and will delete things when they connect. Which makes the games really interesting, because this is an objective game - killing stuff is positively useful, but potentially not sufficient. Hence my reasoning about the need for new units with the +1 attack bonus. They don't have to be outrageous like Blood Knights, and they can and should do well in other Legions as well - but they should give us room to come up with more diverse competitive lists that are still "proper" LoB lists. Very personal reflection, of course. Perhaps I am just not-so-secretely pining for new vampire models after all...

Well, I'm going to try this out, that is for sure. I just have to think about what to use to craft some Hexwraiths (perhaps the very only NHs models I actually loath. Why oh why didn't we get this Battalion with Spirit Hosts...), but I am going to try, perhaps with three units of 5. 30 wounds to leverage via that 2+ save... oh, the beautiful filth this is going to bring to the table! As many pointed out in different occasions, one of the issues with NHs is that our models are on average quite pricey, as the Etheral saves are allegedly quite powerful. And they are - when talking big units where the dice average out. But when it's about heroes, you tipically have to deal with a selection of few high-damage attacks, and your Etheral save can most definitely let you down very easily. We all know what happens to our 5-7 wounds heroes when they are pitched against one of the very many high-damage units in the game: they are gone in one, two turns at bests - and our entire army relies on our heroes. All of this to say that, while I'm not going to claim that these Battalions are overpriced per se, they kind of are with respect to NHs, where every point we have we need to invest in actually bringing bodies/wounds into our lists. In order to be competitive, any NH Battalion has to make a solid difference to our list. I believe that the Dolorous Guard can do that - at least I am going to try. I have been waiting for a tanky NH hero for a long time - this is it, folks, it has to be. There must be some additional support we can think of to transform said Battalion with Olynder as general into a proper murderball as well. A KoS on foot would be my first pick: very cheap, its CA gives a bubble (MODELS wholly within 12") of +1 to hit, not just one unit! And, you can stack it. Stick said KoS right behind Olynder, surround the two (un)dead lovers with 3/4 units of Hexwraiths, and wait for whatever your opponent is going to throw at you - 2 CP later suddenly, your crappy Hexwraiths don't look like lanky clowns at all (not to mention Olynder and the KoS benefit from the same CA as well - very effective usage of a CP, I daresay). Just a thought, I'm sure there are better options out there...

I believe that the Dolorous Guard does accomplish that - to some degree. However, involving a KoS or indeed Malcor himself (for the double battalion combo) is a possibility, but to me not the most attractive one. Even with a relic and a +1 attack, a mounted KoS' attacks have -1 rend only: against the fairly ubiquitous 3+ save, that's not much at all. The Hexwraiths, even with +1 attack each for both raiders and mounts, still hit on 4+. Awful. I personally think that the Dolorous Guard is not meant to be used as a hammer, but as an anvil instead. As such, Lady Olynder would be my pick... The Emerald Host, as @AidenNicol pointed out, might be of some use in > 2000 pts games - we don't see many (any?) of those to be put forward in tournaments, though. About the Forgotten Scions: the Command ability for free sounds real good - but it costs you 140 pts. Now, some silly comparisons for us all to ponder... 10 Bladegheist Revenants [180 pts] (on the charge) + said CA for free [140 pts] = 40 attacks for 320pts. vs: 15 Bladegheist Revenants [270 pts] (on the charge) = 45 attacks for 270 pts. (Sure, it's quite tough to get in all 15 in one go if you have them all in one unit, but you don't have to, and you have 5 more bodies for your opponent to remove - you don't have to worry about them being wholly withing 12" of your mounted KoS either, which is key). Or. 10 Grimghast Reapers [160 pts] + said CA for free [140 pts] = 30 attacks for 300 pts. (ok, the Bell does its on thing, bear with me). vs: 20 Grimghast Reapers [320 pts] = 40 attacks fpr 320 pts (this time you can get them all in [2" range] and again you don't have to worry about the wholly within range). And so on. My argument: 140 pts is still a lot of points, which - if compared to what you can actually get units-wise, make the Forgotten Scions much less attractive to me. Obviously, the situation changes if you use really big units - in that case, the mounted KoS CA outperform the extra models to an extent; and yet, it's real hard to enforce your big unit wholly within 12" of our beloved Malcor. Keep in mind that you also need TWO Dreadblade Harrows to make the Fogotten Scions work. While one DH is a NH staple, two are very rarely seen, and for good reasons: you can only have one general (and thus one Spectral Summons command trait). So effectively you are paying 90 pts on top of those 140 pts. Yes, you' are getting a relic and an extra CP, but if that's what we are looking for, I believe some of the Battalions we already had (Shroudguard, for example) achieve the same for less point and give you and actually useful edge (in that case, more durable units). Dreadblade Harrow (or some other unnamed NH character) as General with RotSH, screened by a single unit of 6 Spirit Hosts: potentialy 9 wounds worth of models back. Each hero phase, for free. Olynder as General with her CA, 1 CP gone each time she goes for it, and you need three different units around her (much weaker!) to do same - albeit that's guaranteed, as opposed to the DH, as he could bring back only 3 wounds of SHs if unlucky. However, almost never you'll have three different units in range of Olynder losing a single model each. Most likely you'll loose multiple models within one unit - hence RotSH is inherently much more efficient. I have tried both of these configurations, and I do find that Olynder as a general is a bit of a no-no. Very similar problem in LoG, in fact... Finally, I find that, with NHs, CPs are precious things to hold on to and use only when truly needed. The fact that RotSH comes for free is too good to be ignored for me...

To me, The Dolorous Guard is the one and only new Battalion to focus on. I might be right or not, but that's a different conversation to be had. As such, I've tried to compare one of the NHs lists I've played quite a bit - with mixed results but hey, it's hard to get a 5-0 with our beloved Ghosts, as many of you would agree - with a similar lists where I have tried to incorporate the Dolorous Guard. I'm not claiming this is a fair comparison (different lists are hardly comparable whatever they contains, IMHO), and I did change a few bits and bobs here and there... anyway, here we go: The Emerald Host vs The Black Host As you can see, very similar lists. The Emerald Host features a very tanky general (Olynder) thanks to the Dolorous guard: said General can also try (for once!) to get in the face of the big bad guys and unleash the MWs rage without being wiped out off the table the next turn. Great. Than we have a blob of Reapers (properly supported by GoS and Vampire Lord) and two units of Revenants, to be deep-striked at will (I tend to drop the two units in different battlerounds, but that obviously depend on the particular game...) and properly supported by a mounted KoS and a Spirit Torment. Add in 10 Chainrasps because screening is everything (in fact, I'd argue we're missing some more in this list). As a whole, I'd say three main sections of the list meant to do three different things. Extra relic, extra command point as well. Not too shabby. The Black Host is 1990 pts (cheeky Triumph possible!) and features Lady Olynder (not as a general and unsupported by the Dolorous Guard) screened by 6 Spirit Hosts. She can't survive against the big bad guys for long, but she can very well sit on an objective for a long while (let them come, they can still experience the full weight of the MW awesomeness), and Spirit Hosts are much better than Hexwraiths (all those in favour?). This whole section can be kept in the Underworld if needed. Then we have the Dreadblade Harrow as our general, also screened by 6 Sprit Hosts, which thanks to the Ruler of the Spirit Hosts command trait are even harder to remove than those guarding Olynder. AND, they can be moved around at will thanks to the Phantasmal Discorporation + Spectral Summon combo. Note that the Gryph-feather Charm in conjunction with Look out Sir! means that our flimsy general is minus 2 (oh yeah) to hit via shooting. Useful. And, movement shinanigans can win you many games. Next up: blob of Reapers (not 30 as in the Emerald Host, but 20 is still a decent number - some would say, better manoeuvrable...) supported in exactly the same way as in The Emerald Host. Same story for the Revenants and their support characters. FOUR sections in total for this list, then, to be compared with the tree of the Emerald Host. The latter has less drops, sure, but is still very much beatable in that sense by seriously low-drop armies (Skavens, anyone?). Which one of thw lists is bound to come out on top? I, genuinely can't tell at first glance. The truth (probably) is, when dealing with certain battleplans having a very tanky general (Emerald Host) is absolutely key: Places of Arcane Powers and Relocation Orb spring to mind. In some other cases, being able to shoot across the board real quick implies very high chances of success: Take and Hold and Battle for the Pass are obvious examples. I'm tempted to say that unless your opponent has the chance of covering you in MWs from a very long distance (i.e. you are playing Tzeench), the Black Host offers more tools to deal with whatever battleplan.I want to feel the hype of these new battalions, though, so please do convince me otherwise!

Somehow dangerous, I'd say - still -1 Rend only, which is not much against serious opponents. High damage is great - but if can't get in... plus, if he's to be your General, you lose the DH+Spectral Summons combo, which I believe is fair to say is one of the most effective tricks we can leverage. That is the actual problem though, right? To take advantage of the Dolorous Guard, you need a unit of Hexwraiths 3" away from your Kos. To leverage Forgotten Scions, you need your punchy unit to be - alas! - wholly within 12" of him. Now you have two options: (1.) desperately trying to juggle the Hexwraiths and said punchy unit, but that is bound to be real tricky, especially on the charge (2.) accept that your Hexwraiths are your punchy unit: the two battalions together give them +2 attacks each (knights and mounts!) for free, which sound phenomenal on paper, and yet we are still hitting/wounding on 4+/5+ with our knights/mounts, so that's close to useless. One option would be to go all in on the Hexwraiths: 2 units of 20 for a massive war of attrition with an impossibly tanky general at the front. To me, this sounds like a ton of effort for not-so-great a result, though... Uhm... 2 DHs, one of which is your General, with RotSHs. One mounted KoS with a Balefire blade. 20 Hexwraiths sitting right behind them. 30 Reapers right in front of them, benefitting from the +1 attack for free. Throw in a Vampire Lord for another +1 attack, and 1 GoS... attrition for real... bah, just rumbling. I'll have a proper think later on. Exciting times ahead!

My twopence... The Emerald Host: such a joke that it's not even worth talking about it. The Forgotten Scions: 1 mounted KoS and a DH is something you might want to take anyway, which is good. 2 DHs? Very rarely - you usually pick one DH to be your general with RotSHs and that's it. So, an investement of not-so-useful 90pts already. +1 for our KoS is good, and paired with a relic (the Balefire Blade comes to mins... the Sword of Judgment is not reliable on a 6+) is even better, but would that combo (assuming that this Malcor can actually take a relic, @Sauriv might be right, if we're talking about a named character, forget it...) turn our KoS into a serious killer? Not even close. Still mediocre, still flimsy. Being able to use his CA for free is great, but let's not forget that the effect of that CA last for one combat phase only. The worst part: 140 points. Potential combo with ShroudGuard, though? One mounted KoS, one on foot, 2 DHs, 2 units of 10 Bladegheists? I don't know, still not sold... The Dolorous Guard: +1 attack on Hexwraiths means very little, they still suck - hitting on bloody 4+. Passing wounds on 2+ is the real thing here, potentially solving for real one big issue with NHs, that is that our Generals are real flimsy. 120 points? Worth it, but let's not forget that Hexwraiths are pricey (I'd say massively overpriced for what they do: 140 pts for 5, and no regiment discount). My only problem: I hate the Hexwraiths models... time for some conversions, I guess... In a nutshell: I am happy, as this is new stuff, and it can be used to shake things up a bit. I sure hope it's just a start, though - we need way more to get back in the game. Lastly: these are NHs Battallions - great. Can we use them in LoG? No news on that front? The Dolorous Guard in LoG would be absolutely phenomenal... having a virtually immortal General in a proper (i.e. Endless Legions) Death army would be so strong...

It has been seen many many times, I do agree. I suppose it also depend on your list/playstyle, though. If you are going for massive units (three blobs of 40 Rasps and the like...), board control & staying power, than the Reiki+Cogs combo is the last thing you want to waste your points on. With a MSU-style, realtively punchy (this is still NHs after all...) list with multiple opportunities across different battlerounds to leverage our From the Underworld They Come, though, I find said combo to still perform quite well. In addition, not so many players are willing to spend a dispel attempt to get rid of the Cogs (as they usually enjoy the +2 to move and charge themselves!), but the very same players tend to underestimate the fact that only the caster nearby has the opportunity to slow down time and thus get those very precious save re-rolls + extra spell, making Reiki very much more survivable if needed. Very few things are reliable within the NH universe, but casting the Cogs on a 4+ implies a success rate of 91.66% - as close as reliable as we can get, I daresay... having said that, Reiki+Cogs is not an auto-include for me. Again, there's much we can get for those 250 pts instead... it's all in the list! Very important detail: the DH can't do his Phantasmal Discorporation if he's tied up in combat - true, but the unit(S) he calls to him via Spectral Summons can be in combat and still be perfectly eligible to be brought elsewhere. Something I have quickly learned to make my opponent aware of at the very start of the game - huge potential for a goctha moment there if not...

But... Reiky is +3, that means casting Cogs on a 4+? It has failed me in very few occasions (mostly because the ****** has to suffer the MW he inflicts on himself to get the 3+, and Deathless Spirits is still there to mock us)...

Correct. That's how the DH has been played in tournaments so far as well. Both actions happen at the same time, so you pick the order. Note that Spectral Summons "stacks", in that e.g. fpr 2 CP you can bring along not only your 20 Reapers, but your quite essential GoS as well... Some of my favourite... (1) Spirit Hosts: fantastic screens, very hard to get rid of (especially if using Ruler of the Spirit Hosts), and surprisingly punchy if you have 6-9 of them in one unit. When you manage to roll 6+, MWs hurt everyone, big monsters included. Paired with a DH as a General, they don't suffer from their low mobility, making them a very, very solid choice as Battleline. You'll hate them badly when the time comes to actually put together the models, though - oh, the pain... (2) (MORE. MANY MORE) Grimghast Reapers: in NHs, I usually go for 20 instead of 30 as keeping them within 12" (essential for many things...) becomes quite hard otherwise. They are now quite costly, but still amazingly good. People fear them as well, which is something you can and should leverage. (3) Bladegheist Revenants: hard-ish hitters. I have 4 units of 5 (very manoeuvrable), can be used in the Shroudguard Battalion for somed durability in conjunction with a mounted KoS and - essential- a Spirit Torment. When they re-roll hits they can be quite nasty. He's also an absolute joy to paint, I like the model very very much indeed. (4) Reikenor, you should have already: because the entire point with NH is that ephemeral 9" charge, and because of that you need the Cogs - which in turn require that sweet +3 to cast that only Reiki can provide. It's an investment (170+80=250 pts, I believe?), but a good one in my opinion. Get those Cogs! (5) Various support characters of your choosing: GoS for Reapers, ST and/or KoS for Blades... a Vampire Lord (flying Horror essential) is, I find, a very good addition. Combine it with a mounted KoS and for 2 CP your 20 Reapers are dishing out some 80 attacks... plus D3 back on three different units within (not wholly within) 12", and he's a caster. Which can heal D6 once/battle and as opposed to a GoS can also kill something (little). That might be even too much? With the Cogs on top you'll get a +4 on the charge... a 5" charge is > 80%...

That is a very good question... hopefully NH, as I believe it’s fair to say that our beloved faction needs some love in order to be brought close enough to where LoG sits in the competitive scenario. On the other hand, people have been complaining (and righteously so) about the (absolute? I know there’s an entire thread about this...) lack of Battalions for LoG since they have appeared, so... Ideally, both - I don’t see a huge problem with any aspect of the Lore that should prevent NH and LoG Battalions not to be taken in one or the other. Back on the speculation train, I do hope one of these three Battalions would indeed involve SHs... one of my favourite unit within the whole of Death - imagine if they could become even more tanky... or - Nagash forbid! - doing MWs on 5+... I shall entertain these silly dreams until reality hits!

Around the 3rd weekend (Saturday on the shelf) of the month? I have a subscription, and it usually lands 2-3 weeks in (with substantial fluctuations time-wise). More experienced hobbyists can probably be more precise, though. * nods, repeatedly *. Given that both ShroudGuard and ChainGuard are somehow worth taking, my competitive hopes are focused on the Dolorous Guard - it's all in the name! That would require some strong effort, IMHO...

Ooooh, this is excellent news... * happy dance *

One perhaps trivial reflection on LoB at the moment is that the possibilities for competitive lists are very few indeed. Most of what I have seen and/or play with would include: - 1 or 2 VLoZD, one of which usually etheral. Artefacts other than the Amulet are very rarely seen - for obvious reasons. 3 VLoZDs is real fun, but you need bodies to win certain battleplans. Neferata doesn't cut it, particularly as she has to be your general. Vhordrai is actually inferior to a VLoZD in Legion of Blood, even when buffed (the CA ability on the VLoZD gets you real close to Vhordrai with his own spell on). - Dogs as battleline / screens. Skeletons are also failry common, albeit I believe that people are starting to realize that being slow might be a huge issue when everything else in your army moves real fast. - 5, 10, maybe even 15/20 Blood Knights. This is their Legion after all (+1 attack each is too good to ignore). - Skeletons to fill up. I go for Reapers, insanely good but costly, but I haven't seem them around much (can't understand why - they won many a game...). And that's it. Ok, -ish, but you'll have to admit the variations are not many, nor substantials. The bravery bomb is not a competitive option, the one and only battallion available to LoB is awful. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing this army a lot, it's a small list with few things to remember but lots of subtetly required in moving around Blood Knights and the like - and thinking a turn or two ahead. It's great fun, and I love the lore too much to not be happy with it - competitive or not. I just wish for a few new models with decent warscrolls that might fall under the favoured retainer label, and perhaps some decent battalions (the fact that we can't use Castellans of the Crimson Keep in LoB is so unfair!). Plus, LoB = Blood Knights, let's face it, and I believe that our faith, to be quantified in the endless hours most of us dedicated to convert these models from basically everything under th (Purple) sun, will have to be rewarded at some point. Meanwhile, I'm reading "The Dominion of Bones", and a few chapters in I'm already thinking: for the undying glory of the Great Necromancer, our beautiful queen Neferata deserves some outrageous, Gotrek-like upgrades, along the lines of a 3+ shrug and a damage 6 weapon, otherwise the lore just doesn't make sense Let us keep the faith, brothers and sisters - our Martial Fury shall be righteously feared once more soon enough, of that I am hopeful (for no good reason at all, but hey...)!

That's the stuff of dreams... albeit the DH's ability to move stuff across the board via the Phantasmal Discorporation + Spectral Summons combo is potentially still stronger than a buffed-up LO... closer, though. Much closer.

Yes, absolutely - what I meant is that this cover bonus is very useful to counteract shooting (probably the biggest threat our BKs have to face😞 the last thing you want with your BKs is to get charged (+1 saves because to cover is nothing compared to the loss of the D3 damage output), and, once they do make the charge, ideally there's nothing left around them after they're done. Against units with no rend, they're still tough as nails (+ mystic shield they become hilarious...) With is own command ability (re-roll all failed hits for 1 CP), our very unreliable VLoZDs become much more reliable. Yes, you can't always one-shot a Maw Krusha (you definitely can, though! ), but with the amulet plus the aura you might very well survive a second turn (healing [chalice, vile transference] helps...), and at that point you often come out on top. Plus, in many realms there are relatively cheap +1 hit spells... and at that point, your VLoZDs can do absolute wonders. I do agree with you that it will always be a a matter of spikey dice rolls with this lad: even when, say, all of your 4 maws attacks make it in, you could inflict either 4 or 24 damage - fluctuations are there and are huge, but buffs can really help him shine against big things. Also, if you just so happen to run two VLoZDs in your army... a double shooting + charge from them = almost everything turns in to gory chunks of bleeding meat (for the greater glory of our beautiful Queen, of course).

What about the Orb of Enchantment? Once per battle, at the start of the combat phase, you can pick an enemy hero within 3" of the bearer. In that combat phase, that hero may not pile in, attack or use abilities. The cheesy bit with this one is that - as far as I understand - all Gotrek uber-nasty abilities, including the preposterous 3+ shrug and the max 1 damage suffered, go down the sink when the Orb is activated. At that point, you have a model with 8 wounds and a 4+ rendable save that cannot retaliate against you. Now: putting the Orb on a meek Spirit Torment, and charging said hero into the Son of Grimnir, swiftly followed by a unit of 10 Bladegheist Revenants (+1 attack on the charge, +1 attack via 1 CP from a mounted KoS), would allow you to nullify Gotrek and pile in (I just tried...) 6 Revenants, which gives you (not even taking into account the surprisingly choppy ST...) a 78.8% chance to get rid of the cheeky dwarf in one go. It's still an investment (you need a ST with the Orb and a mounted KoS wholly within 12" with a CP to spend), but it sounds doable to me?

In my opinion, none of the Mortarchs would be a good pick for a LoB army general. 11 wounds with a rendable 4+ means they are off the table in one turn against a shooty/MWs-heavy army. Same thing when facing strong or in fact even not-so-strong units in melee. Conversely, a VLoZD with an ethereal amulet and aura of dark majesty will be way more tricky to remove. Having our general on the table until the very end is key - no Endless legions without! I run Neferata in quite a few occasions. Once I managed a -4 to hit (3 CPs [thanks to a handy piece of Commanding terrain] plus Overwhelming Dread) and that was fun (well, for 50% of the players anyway...), but died nonetheless a couple of turns later... VLoZDs are the answer!

Well, that’s pretty good as a best case scenario... I usually run two units of 5, and they have very rarely disappointed me. You can easily get them into cover, easily pile them in in such a way to avoid the most of the opponent retaliation, the minus two bravery thing is huge (more often than not forcing your opponent to spend precious CPs), if they are 16” away of anything they are in by definition because of the guaranteed charge (that’s some serious threat range), you can screen them real well with a single unit of 5 dire wolves, and you can have them dealing very reliable damage by spending a single CP (VLoZD command ability, re-rolling all failed hits). While your opponent is busy trying to get them off the table (intrinsic healing plus vile transference can keep them there quite a long time, and if the enemy doesn’t have rend, good luck to him...) your VLoZDs can get stuff done elsewhere... In a nutshell: I like them very much! I am not saying they are THE best unit to run in LoB, but they certainly do their job quite well for their points - I think. Very personal opinion, of course, biased by the fact that I love the models and their lore (albeit I had to go for conversions as most people out there...)

Grim Maybe Endless Spells can help in slowing him down? Shackles, Palisade... he can’t (normally) fly...

Uh - didn't see these two posts until now! Sorry guys, it's not like my stuff added anything to what @The_Dudemeister and @lare2 already said! #RefreshBeforeYouPostYouIdiot