Dolomyte

The new rule for incompatible effects is probably a bigger nerf to them then people realize. Locus triggers during charge phase, so will get overwritten by any fight phase strikes first abilities now as well

Well they just got a big nerf. So we will see how they play out over the next few weeks

I really prefer that in a game both players use the same dice, I think that makes it easier and honestly makes the game more social, not to mention quicker. Player one rolled his hit and wound rolls, then player two just picks up the wound dice and rolls his saves. If the dice are loaded or off kilter won’t matter since both sides are using them

True, intent is key, but hard to judge, especially if your the player who loses due to mistakes made by your opponent. At a GT level you should accurately know your rules. I totally get the groups of dice to speed up math, and I don’t think you are wrong for liking that, but it has bad optics in certain situations. For instance if you use three specific sets for attack and wound and save rolls and you have a different set for morale. That is shady. I am hesitant to water test people’s dice, I feel it’s a major slap in the face that Would spoil Someone’s weekend regardless if they are cheating or not.

I think cheating has tiers. common tier - forgetting or misremembering rules, while I’d like to believe it’s often just forgetfulness it’s still technically cheating. Occasional tier - Quick rollers ( I counted 50 hits on those 70 4up to hit attacks in 2 seconds and am already on to the wound roll), slow players, measurement fudgers. rare tier - loaded dice, fudged rulers, Ben affleck (it was Jennifer garner ffs, how can you cheat on her with the barely noticeable nanny) I see common tier all the time, occasional has one or two at most GTs, rare I’ve seen confirmed only 3 times. I was playing someone at a Kings of War GT and he would switch dice for attack rolls and morale checks. One set rolled high the other quite low. I asked if he would not mind using my dice since I had hundreds and he need not switch anymore and he declined, after the round I said I liked how pretty his dice were and offered to buy them after the event for $150. He declined saying they were out of print. It was the fourth round so I told the TO who knew him and vouched for him, but I am still confident his dice were loaded. At my tournaments now I require players to only have one set of dice. If someone attempts to use different dice for different rolls I bring chessex packs they can use for rest of event.

What else is in that particular persons Venn diagram I wonder? Hates dogs, thinks Star Wars prequels are better then original, fan of true detective season 2, paints solely with ikea paints.

Magicians could cheat with the cup, but the few magicians who play slaves to darkness are probably all great dudes.

The Honest Wargamer puts out the stat show, a couple of things about that. It only includes 5 game GTs. They had 2 5 win showings, 1 four win, 7 3 win,, and 1 2 win and 1 1 win. That sample size is incredibly small. The two events they won were a 24 player and 10 player event,, the 10 player event was Australian masters and they were piloted by one of the best players in the country if not the best and one of the better in the world. the 24 man was pre faq so could have even had horse shenanigans. That being said the two lower showings of 1 win and 2 win were supposedly non petrifex builds but they don’t track subfaction info so I can’t confirm that or deny it

Archaon, keeper, syllesske, sorcerer lord on manticore 2x 10 daemonettes and 1x 20 marauders. syllesske host. that is not going to be fun to see on the table

A ton of armies do that against different armies. It’s rock papers scissors. Play Ossiarch against deepkin or skaven, play daughters against nagash and 60 grimghast, play kharadron against anyone other then kharadron (I kid, maybe) some armies they will do well against, others they won’t, it is what it is.

Can’t you give a unit of 60 grots reroll pretty much everything and do mortal wounds on sixes? and with like a bajillion attacks?

In 2019 I’ve run Daughters, flesh eater courts, darkling covens, fyreslayers, big waagh, and will hopefully run bonereapers this weekend. I personally never play an army twice if I can top 20% of the event with it. ie top 2 in a 10 man or top 20 in a 100 man. I will run the same faction but it needs to be at least 50 percent different list construction wise, ie witches one time snakes the next. im more in the game to paint cool armies so I flip my stuff a lot.

Of the ideas presented I like involving the table next door the most, it Makes the game more social which I’m a fan of . a slaanesh vice cup sounds cool though. Get on that whoever makes merchandise.

No, it only matters if they are going first really.

They are such great smack talkers though. “Watch this card, I’m going to make it, like your army, disappear!”

So here’s my question. How do you plan to run this at competitive tournaments? there are a ton of great players who I would totally trust to roll a die without me seeing and either write down the result or move the die somewhere and put a cup over it or something. There are a few players who I would outright refuse to let use this ability without me seeing the roll. assuming it does not get FAQ’d into an entirely different ability I think the best solution is for a TO to come over and witness the roll, but that could in theory add a ton of work for the TO if 12 players have Archaon. what are you guys thinking? sub-note it definitely needs to be FAQd for mirror matches sub-sub-note I like the flavor of the ability and the concept of it. I just dont like any element of a game that requires you to have absolute faith in your opponent, same reason I refuse to use the behind the back ability of nagash, just roll a die on a 1 to 3 lives 4 to 6 dead.

One of the best things I did to get better as a player was to start attending two day GTs as just a guest if they were local to me. It’s so great to be able to go watch people running an army similar to yours or one you have trouble with and seeing how people deal with it. Usually you can snag a game or at the very least a pint with someone on Friday night as well. We can type all we want on here but reading can only get you so far, watching I’ve found is a far better teacher. In friendly games now I’ll intentionally do weird or off the cuff things with my list just to see how my opponent uses his army to counter it. I’m not suggesting you change your list and tactics to cut throat tournament play, but I’ve found for me learning how to play those games makes it easier and more enjoyable for me to play casual ones

So this time I tried to pilot bonereapers instead of playing against them. Did not have enough guard to run the list I really wanted but I did have the following petrifex elite katakros boneshaper w/ godbone armor and drain vigor spell 2x 20 mortek guard 1x 10 mortek guard 2x mortek crawlers 1x harvester shield corps Opponent ran skaven wizard on a bell with death frenzy wizard on foot with skitterleap engineer built to buff storm fiends and with a rocket 3x 20 clanrats 2x 40 plague monks 6x storm fiends A random endless spell to do mortal wounds we got scorched earth which was honestly next to places of arcane power one of the ones I was most worried about. I finished deploying well in advance of him and took first turn. Left 10 mortek in woods guarding one objective, left crawlers on the others, and moved a block of 20 protecting katakros up the middle and a block of 20 with the harvester and shaper up the right. No spells were in range and I had left the terrain piece at home so nothing big in hero phase. in shooting I buffed the attacks of the crawlers and put Everything into the storm fiends as I realized shooting would be my biggest concern. Did 5 wounds and he failed all 5 4ups, go me. He killed both melee fiends and one flamer fiend, the other flamer was down to a single wound his turn he death frenzied a unit of plague monks, skitterleaped his caster into an opening behind my army and tried to cast warp lighting vortex but failed. The bell randomly did the minus 1 to hit thing, he shot some stuff fairly ineffectually maybe killing three mortek as the storm fiends tried to distance themselves from catapults turn 2 roll off and I kept initiative. I did katakros plus one to hit army wide, healed the three who had died back to full and failed to cast a spell with the shaper, movement is where I lost the game. I let the two blocks of mortek advance up to get into charge position on the clanrats but stupidly sent the harvester back to deal with the wizard. I would have been better off letting him contest the objective or just charging him with the crawlers or even wasted one to shoot him. More on that mistake later. shooting I put the crawlers into his plague monks on the left flank that were going up the board fairly uncontested. Did 4 wounds and he saved 2 so 10 plague monks died. Mortek charged 2 units of 20 clanrats and harvester charged wizard. One unit of mortek went first and killed 15, he went with other unit and killed 4, I took out 14 of that unit, he killed 1, and then harvester killed caster. one unit was within bell range so ignored morale the other fled off table. he went. Spells went off better this time, cracks call killed 6, frenzy got off again despite my best intentions, stormfiends got buffed up, endless spell went off and did mortals to both crawlers , my mortek and katakros, movement he positioned chargers and advanced towards my objective holding 10 with his last 20 man unit. Shooting from stormfiends and rocket killed 18 of the healthy mortek unit(and this is where my moving the harvester away was stupid, I could have had 9 or so survive that) He charged the two remaining with stormfiends and one unit of 40 monks into the 14 man unit. The 108 attacks of the plague monks rolled fairly well for me, barely any rend, so I only lost half my unit from the volley, 3 up reroll is tough against no rend, daughters watch out. I killed a few back, 8 maybe, and lost two more to mortal wounds but was not super worried. My two remaining from the more hurt unit managed to survive and only Go to 1 but did not kill anything back themselves. 20 rats killed 2 mortek and only lost 8, so he burnt objective they were on for only 1 point. Minor lead to him. turn roll went in his favor and that was pretty much game. Had I been able To go I would have healed one unit 6 and another 3, gotten harvester back in range and gotten another healthy round of shooting with the crawlers I may have taken out some of the threat of the plague monks and turned it around, as it was he shot slash spelled remaining mortek to death and I was down to unit of 8, one crawler that was engaged with 30 frenzied plague monks and katakros and the harvester. So the combo of not having the terrain piece to try and keep minus 1 to hit on the stormfiends, forgetting katakros can also put minus 1 to hit on something, stupidly worrying about a wizard with just skitterleap, and getting double turn cost me the game. I had fun and so did my opponent, neither of us felt overwhelmed by the opposing army which for a really competitive skaven list and crawler spam I think was good. Will he miss 5 4 up saves in the future? Probably not. Will I abandon the mortek in the future? Definitely not.

I hate arkhan, the extra points katakros adds too much in my opinion. Shutting down command points alone can swing a game against some armies. Obviously rolls dependent.

Because that’s not the only competitive build and it’s super weak versus slaanesh A praetorian list is much better

I actually agree with you, I think praetorians and crematorians are both competitive . Null myriad in team events

He was more saying he did not see why katakros is better in praetorians

I switched to using just clippers and workshops moldline remover after I dropped my exacto through my foot once. go bladeless!

So here is my thought as this thread is getting a bit heated. Let’s table the discussion for 60 days. By then we will have a lot more actionable data from honest wargamers Stat show and we can start screaming at each other with real data instead of anecdotal evidence.

that’s the most fair thing I would give to people in this thread. If you don’t like dealing with highly defensive armies they are not going to be a joy for you to play against. I personally hate gun line armies. They are not OP, I just in my opinion don’t enjoy Fighting them. Different strokes for different folks