Nasrod

Wishlist/hopes for balance: Gluttos + 20 Exalted Seekers, both variants, +10 Sigvald, - 10 Keeper and Shalaxi, - 20 Shardspeaker, - 10 Lord of Pain, - 10 Infernal Enrapturess, - 10, generates 1 free DP per turn Contorted Epitome, - 20 Syll'esske, Now unlock Twinsouls Battleline as General Twinsouls, - 20 Painbringers, - 20 Fiends, -10 3/9 unit size new cost 170/480 Daemonettes, unit size new cost 10/30 110/300 Hellstriders, -10 unit size new cost 5/20, 130/480 Seekers - 10 -- Also just want to add, shockingly the Mindstealer Sphiranx has done major work for me. The threat of fight last is something people assume Slaanesh no longer has access to. Double turning with this thing alive and next to Glutos is just disgusting. At 10 wounds and 100 points it isn't horrible for wound effeciency either. Both of my opponents have expressed frustration at how much is required to shoot it off the table in comparison to other support pieces that are usually 6 wounds and similarly priced.

120 points and allow all models in the unit to attack with both weapon profiles. Or 90 points for 3. Yes, 90. 5+ armor save and 3 wounds each for what is practically worse than a 5 man Chaos Warrior attack profile; the base warscroll is that bad.

Nah. Even if the kit didn't fit together like it does, truth is the arms and wrists are so small I don't know how you would find a way to hide the magnets. This one is definitely a multi purchase required.

One of the hands connects to an arrow and the arrow has 2 fingers in it that serve as the anchor. The mounts are very fun to build and look amazing, but the riders are true misery. They perfectly embody the pain and pleasure of Slaanesh.

I know it has been said many times already but holy ******, Blissbarb Archers are the most challenging model to build in a long time. Set aside about 2 hours minimum for these folks, the flash is connected to some incredibly delicate and obtuse points, but the end result is great. Got some games with my casual list and decided on the more competitive slant: Gluttos - 400 The Masque - 130 Keeeper of Secrets - 340 Chaos Warriors x 5 - 90 Chaos Warriors x 5 - 90 Blissbarb Archers x 11 - 160 Blissbarb Seekers x 5 - 180 Slickblade Seekers x 5 - 200 Slickblade Seekers x 5 - 200 Seeker Calvacade - 140 Geminids - 60 2000/2000 Exalted Seeeker spam and Gluttos in every list is exactly what I feared. The Seekers are good but more importantly they are some of the only effecient points per wound models. Masque is great tech for a fast and easy to hide summoning anchor. Archers probably need to hide on turn 1. Maybe even turn 2. Let Gluttos and the Seekers get stuck in on things and then expose them once you've taken a crack at hitting their gunline. Geminids as a -2 to hit threat is good protection against the double turn. Usually not a fan but I concede I was wrong on it, same as Seeker Calvacade. Atm I will stick with more casual list (Fiends, 10 Knights, CLoK, only 1 unit of Exalted Seekers) simply for the joy of unit variety, but what a squandered opportunity this book has ended up becoming...

Actively feeling let down by 10 to 70 point reductions on our most important units with no price hikes? Have you seen what they did to the Hedonites tome? I own both armies and let me tell you, DoK made out like bandits. Freaking Lifetakers are being discussed as viable.

This is nearly identical to what I played on a 1500 point scale. It majorly overperformed. Be sure you have a role for Morathi; in truth I think it is crucial to utilize her perfectly and tie enemies down to allow your deathstar castle to secure a flank. At 1500 points as much as I love her model, just taking more bodies would have been far superior.

Daughters vs Slaanesh 1500 funsies game with friend. My list leaned in to the monstrous units and shyed away from Elf and Hag Queen spam as I assumed overall little had changed. He is newer but has enjoyed success with Mortek and Slaanesh in the past. Hagg Nar Morathi-Khaine, Shadow Queem, Ironscale General, Hag Queen on Cauldron 20 Witch Elves, 10 Blood Stalkers, 5 Khinerai Heartenders Vs Keeper, Infernal Enrapturess, Herald Exalted Chariot, Contorted Epitome 30 Daemonettes, 10 Hellstriders (Miscalc on points but didn't realize til after) Game plan is center objectives on deployment zones, 1 on each flank midboard. Yours worth 1, side objectives worth 2, enemy objective worth 4. DoK wins roll off gives T1 to Slaanesh. Enrapturess wins gift from the Fane. Slaanesh casts Mystic Shield on the Hellstriders before moving them up in a line on left flank objective. 30 Daemonettes and Contorted Epitome take right flank. The Keeper and Exalted Chariot move in behind the Hellstriders. Infernal Enrapturess manages to barely get a bead on Shadow Queen and snipes her for 2. Daughters have deployed the Cauldron and Ironscale in center with Witch Elves in 2 lines of 10 on its right and 2 lines of 5 Snakes on the left of it. Shadow Queen is on far left. Morathi-Khaine on far right with Witch Elves. Mindrazor, Reroll fanatical saves prayer, and both parts of Witchbrew go off on the Witch Elves. Shadow of Ulgilu kills 5 Daemonettes. Unfortunately the witch elves roll a 2 on the run. With the way the Daemonettes hold the right objective, a charge of 9 would be necessary. Movement forward is instead more conservative, bubble wrapping Morathi Khaine and allowing the Cauldron and Snakes to form a "C" shape surrounding the home objective. Shadow Queen aggressively barrels into the left side intending to chokepoint the striders if necessary so they cannot run into the Stalkers/Home objective. Blood Stalkers shoot the Hellstriders killing 3 and leaving a 4th wounded. The Shadow Queen shoots the Infernal Enrapturess and rolls a 4 on damage, killing it. She then charges the Hellstriders and cuts through 4 more. They fail to wound back and opponent opts to allow them to battleshock away. Score 5 Slaanesh, 1 DoK. Priority roll goes to Slaanesh who jams the Chariot and Keeper down middle away from Shadow Queen realizing the Stalkers are about to threaten a potential 4 shots if a turn 2 to 3 double turn favors DoK. The Daemonettes and Epitome move down the right hand side, hoping to get a charge on the Witch Elves and deprive them of a pile in with the Epitome. This crucial turn goes poorly. The Chariot and Daemonettes make their charges, but the Epitome and Keeper don't. Using their 11 on the charge, the Daemonettes wrap in a way that leaves 5 able to reach Morathi-Khaine and 20 attacking the Witch Elves. Meanwhile the Chariot causes 2 mortals to the Cauldron and kills 1 Snake. Daemonettes fight first. Morathi takes her 3, but only 2 Witch Elves fall to the 20 Daemonettes despite 14 wound rolls. The Elves' Bucklers bounce 3 mortals. The Cauldron piles in and deals 5 wounds to the Chariot. Chariot throws everything into the Snakes and kills 2. Snakes fight back and deal 2 wounds to the Chariot. Mortal wounds finish it off from Crystal Touch. The buffed Witch Elves cut all the Daemonettes down. For DoK bottom of 2 a command point is spent on the now freed up Stalkers. They double shoot the Keeper, which the Shadow Queen also shoots at before charging; she kills it in melee before it gets a chance to swing back. The Elves run down the Epitome and steal the right objective in the process. Score is 10 to 4 Slaanesh favor, but Slaanesh is literally tabled and DoK win roll off, claiming all objectives at top of 3. In the end, Morathi suffered 5 wounds, 4 Witch Elves died, and 3 Stalkers died. Final score Slaanesh 10, DoK 31 --- Takeaways: Morathi is good but honestly the alternative to her would have been 10 Blood Stalkers + Bloodwrack Shrine + 10 more Witch Elves + 5 Khinerai Heartenders... which would have been even more oppressive than the OG list. Stalkers probably should not be battleline-able. DoK units in general feel far too cheap, especially the Cauldron. Elves and both varieties of Snakes could do with going up 10 points. Hag Queenn Cauldron at MINIMUM should be 250. 220 is absolutely ludicrous. I still think Hag Narr 5++ is a mistake. Overall the book slapped some power off 90 Witch Elves 3 Hag Queens but that hasn't been the meta for ages. Instead we had that power shifted to crucial ranged interaction that other players would give an arm and a leg for. Slaanesh meanwhile cannot play in the manner it did before. The new depravity points have good potential to capitalize with the right list, but melee centric forces stand no chance against tuned lists. Almost certainly all their successful lists will require squeezing blood from the stone and capitalizing on every inch of their movement, summoning fueled by Blissbarb Archers/Seekers, and using Glutos as a rare and invaluable anvil. DoK players have been given the luxury of a book that is filled to the brim of viable units. The Slaanesh tome strips away half of the previously viable toys and points and laughs at players who had the audacity to preorder Slaangors and Painbringers/Twinsouls. It is a treat that things like dedicated snake armies or even a small squad of Lifetakers look viable now, but oh man it is cruel how much better we made out in comparison to Slaanesh.

Unironically, yes. Probably one of the top 5 sculpts in the game. Using them as a token 5 of Deep Strike with 1 round of passable shooting is peak feels bad. Double their points if you have to. Just stat them to the expectations their lore and sculpts make them out to be.

Probably one of the best lists and the reason my Slaanesh is strictly rule of cool. 2 battletomes and 2 model release waves and players are looking toward a Slaanesh centerpiece cooperating with Beasts of Chaos. And the actual dedicated Beastmen sculpt is unplayable in it. No excuse for people taking their frustrations out on other posters here but this is such a crystallized example of why jimmies were rustled...

Probably casual beer and pretzels type list. If anyone breaks out The Big 3 I will turn to OBR or DoK. Ideas for a more competitive list down the road would likely require even more pain on the wallet, hence looking to use the Start Collecting S2D as an 80 dollar stopgap for 550ish easy points. Edit: For additional reference I literally don't expect to ever summon more than 1 Keeper and 1 small unit of Seekers or on a lucky day 3 Fiends. So no huge optimization worries at this time.

@Enoby Piggybacking off Whispers something like -20 Marauders -5 Slickblades -Cavalcade Bat (+500 points) +11 Blissbarb Archers +5 Blissbarb Seekers +5 Twinsouls (So that you have 2 units of 10) (-510 points) Puts you at 1990/2000? I know most frown on cutting batts but our units are expensive and you aren't able to capitalize on the extra artefact nor does it put you down in total drops for any competitive merit.

3 part post. 1. Conversion of a Keeper 2. List, fluff, general ideas. 3. The questions I have/input I am looking for. 1. Conversion Corner I stole the Reddit post idea to kit out a Keeper of Secrets with a Mindstealer Sphiranx head, but made some judgment calls. Namey, to splice the back half of a Keeper's skull onto the Mindstealer. https://imgur.com/a/5l93W9L Just need to green stuff the rest of the bracelet to hide the magnet, clean up the connection to the cloak, smooth out some minor deformities, and wait for proper weather to prime. Huge pain but also a huge relief to see it coming together. --- 2. List idea/Tactics So the idea is that the gang above are being led by a Mindstealer Sphiranx. The end of the journey will supposedly involve the summoning of a notorious Keeper of Secrets capable of turning the tide in the region and ushering in a huge wave of worshippers. Naturally, that Keeper being summoned is top priority to the gameplan of the list: Glutos - ??? Syll'esske - 200 Chaos Lord on Karakdarak - 230 (General) Chaos Warrior x 5 - 80 Chaos Warrior x 5 - 80 Blissbarb Archers x 11 - ??? Slickblade Seekers x 5 - ??? Blissbarb Seekers x 5 - ??? Chaos Knights x 5 - 160 Fiends x 3 - 180 Mindstealer Sphiranx - 100 1970/2000 (Masking points of new units since we are still in preorder. Don't want to break any rules.) Strategically, it is pretty loose. Syll'esske, the Fiends, and the Slickblade Seekers form the main spearhead. Chaos Lord on Karak and his 5 Knights ride together to be a nuisance. The Archers do what they can to rake in depravity and make the opponent decide between wiping them out or focusing the fast cavalry bearing down on them. After the Keeper hits turn 3 or so (Too many S2D forces to get him on 2 I think, but that should be okay) the remnants of the forces pull together for a final hurrah and likely get tabled down to the last 10% of the list by turn 4. Hopefully at that point a contingent of Seekers coming in on 4 or 5 can be a final push to snag an objective or two. The warriors serve as a battleline tax and a means of serving as speed bumps for home objectives. Also despite being more of a mascot than a legitimate threat, the Mindstealer getting a fight last on a target in this list seems legitimately back breaking. For 100 points it is a gamble, but one I don't feel beholden to. -- 3. Halp Need advice on 1) faction allegiance (Invaders Lurid Haze? Godseekers? Idk). Lost here because I see justification for all of them, which worries me. Godseekers for the Depravity points on Charge seems very spicy. 2) Spells, Traits, Artes. Is the Chaos Lord on Karak eligible for artes/traits if he is a Slaanesh-marked General? If not, a unit of cavalry will have to be cut somewhere and that hurts my heart.

I'm laughing because the alternative is ugly sobbing.

I am seriously annoyed at this point. We are 9 days away from a complete overhaul of an army we know nothing about. The model is gorgeous. They all are. We saw they were gorgeous when you unveiled them ages ago. Tell us what these things DO, GW. Give us something - ANYTHING - to prove this won't be a repeat of "six heroes leaning on broken, disjointed, unfun summoning mechanics skewed against multi wound lists."

This was true in 8th, but not in 9th. Going first has a slant toward victory due to objective scoring on upkeep. Winter FAQ this AM changes 2nd turn player's turn 5 to scoring obs at end of turn as well as a bunch of tweaks that look to move everything into a healthier place. Abhor and Bring it Down took major nerfs too which makes targeted fire for the sake of killing rather than controlling less appealing (Though Abhor is still an easy 8 to 10 points for some match ups I will admit). Age of Sigmar has become 8th edition 40k, but with "Double turn and eviscerate your opponent at range" replaced with "Take first turn and eviscerate your opponent at range." I play Nids and win about 40-45% of the time with most of my losses against Relentlessly Expansionist+AllOBSec Necrons nonsense and 2 long time Marine players. But the key thing is, my book is nearly 4 years old; this would be like expecting Legions of Nagash tome to fare well against release Seraphon. Sigmar desperately needed an FAQ like the 40k one got. Their game had issues, for sure, but it was more stable. It is absurd that a 4 year old 40k battletome has more even match ups than my DoK army does atm. Atm you have KO, Seraphon, Lumineth, Tzeentch, and IDK players enjoying Sigmar while the rest of the armies hate OBR. And OBR hates everything because it still loses to the same tactics unless the catapults are rolling hot (aka your opponent is rolling like trash on his saves). OBR bullies all melee forces but can't contend with the weight of mortals that Sera/Lumi/Tzeentch put out, cannot deal with KO mobility (No one can to be fair), and can't interact well with IDK to meaningfully impact them prior to their alpha strike (Only the top dogs can and even they struggle). Sigmar's a disaster right now and I am apalled that 40k is somehow more enjoyable to me atm.

Absolutely. The biggest example of this? We have a guy that LOVES the 1.0 Stormcast models. Rets, Libs, Juds. Gets crushed constantly, still loves the game. I'm talking has literally 5% win rate. His genuine enjoyment for the models and lore is crazy. I don't even own an SC army and at this point we are all rooting for buffs to his favorite units. I don't think raising the underdogs would fix the competitive scene, but the beer and pretzels crew that keep the hobby alive and fun? You earn a lot of good faith to your efforts.

The only reason I'm okay with how much additional love Hedonites are receiving with the upcoming models and book is because in my eyes, it's GW's way of saying "Sorry." I love the Keeper of Secrets sculpt but own none of them because of how cheesey they are at 1000 points which is what I play them at. Previously I did okay, but now after the continual nerfs I legitimately have higher win rates with my Nighthaunt than I do HoS with no Marauders and no KoS. Heck, my 40k Tyranids army has better win rate against my band wagoning Necrons buddy than I do with HoS...

That is unreal good. If you don't show us what this looks like once it's done and painted I will take personal offense.

*laughs in friend playing Tau against another friend's Relentlessly Expansionist+All Ob Sec Necron list* Side note: by and large I agree with you. The overall balance is better but the fringe/skew match ups for the bottom tier and top tier in 40k atm may as well be an infinite abyss. As far as Sigmar goes, if the double turn must remain, a universal rule in which a player who takes a double turn receives -1 to hit in the Shooting phase would go a long way toward a healthier game for me. I certainly like Sigmar's melee rules more than 40k's. Really wish we could take the best aspects of each and make a truly great tabletop.

Leviadon absolutely needs to be +20 points. But he can get in line behind Kroak, Wardens, and all THIS *gestures wildly at Tzeentch and Kharadaron Overlords*. Heck, Chaos Marauders are imo the most busted unit in the game atm but who cares when literally every meta list is packing firepower to table opponents on turn 3 and redolyment/kiting tricks to ensure the Marauders aren't ever contacting anything important? But enough of that, Idoneth is the subject. Sharks aren't a problem, anti pile-in support on an offensively smashy and points effecient unit is. It would make a lot of players mad and too late to do, but they should allow 1 Net for every 2 Harpoons you take. Meaning it is a decent alternative to a killy unit like Eels with minor ranged support but going big on the cost gives you the chance to have the utility, but only unlocking it with a similar investment's worth of a Morsarr unit. I would feel better if 2 nets meant the opponent was investing 660 points into statistically preventing a pile in a turn. Simpler alternative I suppose is to give the net innate -1 to hit but I worry the only change it would cause is the IDK player begs to his dice, "PLEASE HIT!' with a bit more gumption than before. And for god's sake GW stop making centerpiece casters that don't get innate +1 to cast, melee Eido is finally fun to use. Meanwhile caster Eido is crying and sharing sob stories with Olynder, who's warning him, "You'll be made so cheap people will just take you for your raw stats despite knowing you can never get your magic up enough to cast under pressure." I play Tyranids for crying out loud and I have more fun with my weak bugs than I do playing DoK or Slaanesh atm. Sigmar desperately needed the winter FAQ. COVID happened, I get it. But I am saltier than my beloved fish elves over the fact that points nerfs came hard and fast to DoK and Slaanesh in the same year as their showing, but this miserable shooting meta is going to be with us until July at this rate. And the 4th army I play? Bonereapers. "Let's make PE still miserable to play against for aggro based armies, but take away your durability against Shooting." The 5th army I played? Nighthaunt Chainhorde battalion witg Guardian of Souls with Hourglass. Got the list built, placed the order for the model just months before it was removed from GHB for no reason. Wasn't even a strong list, but it was ripped out of my hands. So TL;DR is if you hate the turtle, don't worry. I'm opening it up for Christmas tomorrow and fully expect to see the Winter FAQ come up the day after saying "Replace the Akhelian Leviadon's warscroll with the Mournghoul's. Eat our shorts. You will never, ever have fun playing Age of Sigmar, and everything you decide to paint we will nerf." I'm doing fine, thanks. Happy holidays folks!

I got into tabletop gaming because I saw Tyranids in a display shelf as we passed a mall store's Games Workshop as a kid. That was at the eve of 3E when Tau still didn't exist, but I walked out with a single metal Ravener and some glue and paints. I've since moved to Sigmar while very much preferring both its aesthetic and list building simplicities. But let's not kid ourselves here; Space Marines get releases because have you guys actually looked at 40k? Complaining about their popularity would be like throwing your arms up in disbelief that the Halo series favors Spartans. I don't like seeing people exclude themselves from a hobby for nonsensical reasons. The same community lambasting 40k for these faults will unironically tell new players "the meta doesn't matter, pick the army you think is coolest!" As if new players choosing Skaven or Seraphon won't encounter the pain of Eldar players and 20 year old sculpts. Or those that choose Fyreslayers aren't about to enter a model range as neglected and narrow as Harlequins. If you don't like the crunch of list building, the aesthetic, the community, or the heavier emphasis on shooting, these are all perfectly legitimate reasons. But "lol blue marine release go brrrr" is a bad reason to potentially rob yourself of fun and you should feel bad. Can't help but wonder if these same players keep themselves up at night asking "Why can't I convince more people to give Age of Sigmar a shot?!" Edit: Eh this all sounded saltier than usual. The TL;DR is if you have friends trying to get you into 40k, do yourself a favor and ask them for help building a 500 point list, or even a Kill Team squad if they play that. Chances are they can be convinced to snag an Age of Sigmar start collecting as a show of good faith. If I hadn't been willing to give Sigmar a shot despite having already dug my heels into 40k, I wouldn't have my Idoneth, DoK, or Bonereapers which I adore.

Preparing for a double Crawler List and would like opinions between the following two lists. I think the first is probably stronger but much harder to pilot, whereas the 2nd is more forgiving... but 5 drops instead of 4 feels like a big difference so I'm unsure. Mortis Praetorians Katakros - 500 (General) Boneshaper - 130 (Empower Nadirite Weapons) Mortek Guard x 20 - 260 Mortek Guard x 10 - 130 Kavalos Deathrider x 15 - 480 Crawler - 200 Crawler - 200 Mortek Balistari - 100 2000/2000 OR... Petrifex Elite Liege Kavalos (General) - 200 Godbone Armor, Mighty Archaeossian Boneshaper - 130 Empower Nadirite Weapons Bonemason - 140 Gothizzar Cartouche Mortek Guard x 20 - 260 Mortek Guard x 20 - 260 Kavalos Deathrider x 15 - 480 Crawler - 200 Crawler - 200 Mortek Balistari - 100 Bone-Tithe Shrieker - 30 2000/2000

· Akhelian King - 230 (General) · Eidolon of the Storm - 330 -Cloak of Midnight · Soulscryer - 130 · Tidecaster - 100 ~Arcane Corrosion · Ishlaen x 3 - 130 · Morsarr x 6 - 340 · Morsarr x 3 - 170 · Allopex x 2 - 220 -Nets · Leviadon - 350 2000/2000 Buffs to some of the coolest sculpts in the game coupled with somehow making Snake dedicated DoK lists worse than they were pre BRMorathi just had me cancel my Shadow and Pain + Drusa box. Instead got an Eidolon and the Bloodsurf box and will be asking for a Turtle for Christmas. Still mega salty so I figured I may as well stew in the ocean the next few months. The list can absolutely be made more competitive, but I just walked away from DoK because I'm sick of spamming a single unit, so no sense in repeating that burnout with 21 eels.list Either way, considering my other armies are Slaanesh and OBR if I made eel spam I'd cement my "that guy" status at our FLGS. Just happy that rule of cool is now middle of the road rather than bottom of the barrel!

The book made Sharks, Eidolon, and Turtle usable. Did a hell of a lot more for Idoneth than it did for us, that's for sure. Moose, a huge thing I'm finding is we absolutely cannot afford to take first turn. Our fragility means a double turn from even a minor amount of shooting is back breaking, especially without Hag Narr. When I can, I'll try this out. Classic death star list. Boring and lacks a lot of our previous strengths, but hopefully Morathi's buffs makes up for those lost pieces. Hag Narr Morathi - 600 Hag Queen on Cauldron - 290 Bloodwrack Medusa - 140 (General), Shadowstone, Mindrazor Witch Elves x 30 - 300 Blood Stalker x 20 - 480 Witch Elves x 10 - 120 Command Point - 50 1980/2000