Magnus The Blue

Yup, I think Ogors make a very strong approach for this and it opens up a MSU approach (multiple small units) that fwe other armies can pull off well. I've not had many games yet but my Underguts built around 8 units of two Leadbelchers is tearing up the tables and wiped out everyone I've faced. Latest version I ran was: FLoSH, General (Mass of Scars, Gnoblar Blast Keg) Fire Bell, Billowing Ash 3 Units of 3 Gluttons with Iron Fists 4 Iron Blasters 8 Units of 2 Leadbelchers I've been double turned early in every game with basically every unit being a screen and Billowing Ash protecting the Frostlord and Ironblasters, it hasn't really mattered. So may armies just struggle to take down that many units and with almost all of them having both Melee and Ranged threat it's very hard to play against. Help that you can easily screen out any teleportation as your Leadbelchers don't need to be close to each other to provide support, so you can screen out massive parts of the board without sacrificing much. Honestly I started Underguts as a more casual alternative to my Slaanesh, but they are turning out to be a power house.

I was thinking this too. Personally I'm not over impressed with Lord of Change, so feels a bit like I'm being forced to pay 560 just to get a Changehost (380 +180). So might try Multitudinous Host with Soulscream bridge to help with mobility. The healing ability seems amazing for Pinks, bringing back 5-15 wounds per unit, per turn. Somehthing like: Multitudinous Host Fateskimmer Herald on Disk Fatemaster 2*20 Pinks 1 * 10 Pinks 3 * 10 Brims 2 * 10 Blues Soulscream Bridge 340 wounds, before healing means your winning the objective game. Starts with 6 Casts a turn, so will get a little summoning. Great shooting that is really hard to get rid of. Only problem (other than painting up hundreds of horrors) is that it could be thermally dull to play with.

Honestly, I think we're as well equipped as any army to deal with them. Crawlers are doing max 15 wounds to pinks, more likely 10, so will take 5 turns to chew through one unit, not a worry. Some of our heros are vunerable to them but screamers are idea for tying them up (cheap, super fast, flying and reasonably hardy). The Eternal Conflagration is perfectly setup to take out the guard, who only reroll saves in combat. Just focus fire a unit down at a time. Not a walk in the park but we have to spells to take out support characters and shooting to focus fire infantry.

The more I think about it, the more I think units of 20 pinks, in The Eternal Conflagration with change host battalion are just savage. With no support, if their spell goes off, they have 60 shots, 3+/4+/-1 and 100 wounds. So they are dealing nearly as much damage as 6 flamers and an exaulted but over 6 times the wounds (400 v 340 points)! Sure they are slow and short ranged but changecult solves that (mostly). Buff them.with a fate master and/or aura of mutability and things get really silly. Tasty And once you start killing them they get more shots!

You can't use the spells, artifacts, command traits etc. So the only rules you need (other than warscrolls from the app) are the Tzeentch Specific battalions. So I wouldn't bother unless you want the lore and painting guides.

You have to remove all the pinks first, then blues and finally Brims. You can't pick and choose. So your 10 model unit of pinks takes 10 wounds: replace them with 20 blues.

First off, both Guants are playable with both alligences (Slaves and DoT) as they have the appropriate keywork. In fact most of the slaves book can be included in DoT once it has a mark of Tzeetch (without being allies). In terms of Tzaangor, I think they got a lot better simple because of the Agendas and to a lesser extent the covens. Tides of Anachy agenda is super easy with destiny dice and is a massive bonus to big blobs of Tzaangor who often want to do a long range charge turn one anyway. Add another agenda the next turn for either +1 to hit or Save and you have a powerhouse unit. I also think the Host Duplicitous is great for combat focused Tzeentch and really messes with some armies (Rats and Lizards especially). The Artefact and command trait are also rock solid if your going for a Lord of Change.

Absolutely, you can now also get Flamers or Screamers as Battleline if you want. Also, don't forget you can use the Beasts of Chaos Tzeetch Battalion if you want to get Tzeetch bestigors, Gors, Dragon Orgors etc! Horrors are a solid unit but far from essential.

Not as much as Tzeetch. In Eternal Conflagration 6 flamers and an exaulted flamer can take down a keeper in one round of shooting. Combined with 1 drop armies, tarpits that don't give depravity and teleportation (Changehost) they look like a hard counter hero focused Slaanesh.

Not an FAQ, Slaves got a new battletomb, thus new points.

With the reduced cost I think they are just about worth it outside Daemon steel, if nothing else some shooting for a lot of armies that have nearly none (slaves, khorn, Slaanesh and Nurgle). A jack of all trades but with enough speed to be a right pain in the bum. The massive base also mean that is it site on an objective know one can get within 6" of it without getting in combat range. With Daemon Steel it feels top tier (16 3+ wounds and shooting, woof), but the restrictions on the Syll host and lack of synergy with depravity makes me think it's not going to be shaking up the meta.

Not had a chance to play anything yet but Sorcerer Lord on a Manticore looks great on paper. Especially with an Ethereal Amulet. Lots of wounds, good damage output, hardy when buffing itself, great horde clearing spell, flying and fast enough to keep up with everything bar seekers. I want to give the Syll Daemon Steel battalion a good. Lower cost Soul Grinders with +1sv and to hit feel like a bargain.

In this particular matchup I didn't miss it at all. The primary target was always going to be the enlighten which the troph rack doesn't help with. Possibly not as clear as I could be, I had 6 units of 2 Leadbelchers, so as small as they come. But yes I think at least one unit of Gnoblars would have been a good thing. He could have been more aggressive with one big unit of enlightened on disks (6), but the foot ones were out of range and the others neutered. I think he did the right thing keeping them back as they only would have reached one unit and would have been very easy to deal with if he failed the charge (only 7", but it happens) or lost priority. Might have made it a closer game, but definitely high risk.

Had my first game with Underguts on Tuesday and was pleasantly surprised by the results. This is the list I ran: Tyrant: General, Mass of Scar, Fateskeeker Firebelly with Billowing Ash Cloud Icelord on Stonehorn, Gnoblar Blastkeg 3 * 4 Leadbelchers 6 * 2 Leadbelchers 3 Ironblasters My Opponent was Beasts of Chaos, with tonnes of Enlightened: 12 on disks and 6 on foot, Tzaangor Shaman, Shaman, Beastgrave Warband, 10 Gors, 40 Ungors, 10 Ungors, and two units of five Centigors. All except the warband in the Tzeetch Battalion Mission was border war, so relatively straightforward. I deploys with strong centre, all the characters, behind the Ironblasters then leadbelchers spread widely across the res of my deplyment zone: units of 4 near the front for some first turn pot shots and units of 2 screening flanks and blocking ambush. He spread his force widely with Gors and 5 Centigors in Ambush and the Ungor screen stretching across the front of his deployment area. His gave me first turn and importantly I managed to cast Billowing Ash Cloud. Most of my army waddled forwards to tag the objectives and make potshots against the screen with leadbelchers. The Ironblasters were more agressive so I could pop the command ability and blast some enlightened. Had reasonably hot dice and downed 4 enlighted on disks, neutering two 3 beast units. His turn was unenventful, he moved forwards and charged with his screen (gumming up the Ironblasters), deployed both ambushed units, charged with some centigors and positioned the enlighted for charging next turn. Not much damage done by either side in combat. He wins priority and takes the double turn. In go the enlightened on mass engaging most of my army (avoiding the Frostlord and Tyrant). A combination of the Ash Cloud and carefull activation (to minimise re-rolls for the enlightened) means the causalities aren't was bad as I was expecting: 10 Leadbelchers and one Ironblaster. Worth saying having lots of small units really helped here with some units massively overkilled and others surviving relatively unscathed. My combat was reasonably effective, taking down 2 more disk enlighted, one on foot and about 20 other assorted beasts. My turn two, I failed to get Ash Cloud this time, but it'd done it's job. The pot had a massive effect, healing 14 wounds in total. Movement was easy, with only two units of Belchers and the Heros out of combat. The shooting went well, killing 3 more enlighted and freeing two more units of Belchers from combat. Gnoblar blast keg even took out 8 models from the Ungors. At last I got to do my first ever Ogors charges with the new book. It was glorious. 6 units charging (1 monster) did 15 mortal wounds, decimating the remaining enlightened. The combat phase saw me mopping up all but the dregs of his force and when I won priority for the next turn he conceded. Some thoughts: My opponent really struggle to know what to do about my force, having the shooting spread across all the army, all of which are at least ok in combat makes the list hard to deal with. If opponents aren't aggressive enough they get shot off the table, two aggressive and they risk units getting isolated and taken apart piecemeal. 2 strong units of Leadbelchers are great. Cheap enough to be disposable, solid in combat and enough shooting that they are happy stilling on an objective or zone screening all game while taking pot shots. Also having lots of small units make the army hard to sweep aside, makes best use of the mawpot and makes the most of Ogor charging. Being able to basically ignore battleshock means units can happily strike out on their own without hero support. After playing Beast of Chaos, functional bravery of 8 and low model count is great. For my list, hordes armies are going to be hard. Even getting though those 40 Ungor was a chore, not looking forward to 100s of rats or Gobbs. Only unit that I can see helping with this is some Ironguts, happy to hear other suggestions though.

I am hoping Slaves to Darkness gives us enough new option to improve list variation. Chaos Sorcerer on Manticore looks tasty to me. Lots of wounds, can give itself reroll saves (ethereal amulet anyone?), Solid in combat and has a great anti-horde spell.

Seems fair to me. Re-balances the worst offenders without completely neutering our summoning. On an unrelated note, does anyone know if we can use the White Dwarf Battalions in other Hosts?- points drop on Soul Grinders makes that battalion very tempting but I hate the Syll host.

Not tried it yet, but the Soulgrinder one looks tempting.

On average a 8+ unit is only doing triple the damage of a smaller unit. So 4 *2 will average more damage than 1*8, and as you say will do much better after losing models. Big disadvantage of smaller units is in terms of combat activation, but feels to me like a hit worth taking.

Anyone else though of using massed 2 Ogor units of Leadbelchers? In Underguts it's a solid standalone unit and small units maximise charging mortal wounds, extra attacks from champion and are generally more survivable than single big units (damage overflow being wasted). Thinking something like this at 2k points: Firebelly Butcher Slaughtermaster 4 Ironblasters 3 Units of 4 Leadbelchers 8 Units of 2 Leadbelchers Thoughts?

Just reducing the cost of fiends and seeker chariots I assume 🤣

Not worked out the details but pondering something similar. Probably going for more Ironblasters and a trophy rack on the tyrant for some serious anti-monster shooting..

Only place he really shines is with a gruesome trophy rack in a shooting list. Ironblasters dual shooting with that should make a mess of most monsters.

Nice, not a million miles form what I've been planning. An event report and thoughts on how it all ran would be awesome if you have the time. Particularly interested in how you found the 20 Gutter runner units, always felt too fragile to me (especially compared to hordes of Night runners).

Awesome stuff. What list were you running?

Nice, if you get a chance to do a write up, I would love to here how you felt with those lists.