Magnus The Blue

Personally I think you'll get more mileage out of +2 attacks than the extra Loathing (less situational), and 12 attacks on the flail is just gross.

Thanks for the Ideas! Lots of interesting stuff, never even thought of Munificent Wanderers, that command trait is crazy good (only reason it's not ridiculous is that most Nurgle daemons are 'meh').

Just what it says on the tin, I love the Soul Grinder models and am currently converting and painting up 3, but just can't decide what army to build around them. I know they are never going to be top tier competitive, but it'd be great to be good enough to challenge most people in pickup games and local events. Some ideas I've had are: Slaanesh- Syll'Esske Host: have a great battalion (only one for soul grinders) that gives them +1 to hit and Saves, but they don't synergise at all with the host abilities and with a shooting strong meta and realm artefacts gone the Host is very weak. Slaves to Darkness despoilers: has some nice synergies with the grinders, but feels like choosing a weak alligence on top or 630 points of meh units is crippling myself too much. Anyone had any joy running multiple soul grinder or have any ideas for a good army to put them in?

Definitely looks like we'll be more about attrition than raw damage, which is fine, especially in the current shooting meta!

Heavy shooting lists are never going to be easy and Archaon is only going to make things worse. Also warriors are basically zero value in a matchup like this, too slow to have any impact. If your going to tailor a list against that sort of thing I'd got for alpha strike, so Lurid Haze with some Marauders and tonnes of seekers/ in units of 5. The Masque is also great for these games either charging in where needed or hiding at the back to enable summoning.

If you have a hunter too I can see the value in Cats, but I find them lackluster without and need the points for the big guns. Because Belchers come in units of 2, it's more like 12-15 small units instead of 3 big ones (if your investing that many points) which is a nightmare to deal with and gives much more impact damage and significantly more attacks (because of champions who have 50% more attacks). Different story with Gluttons who come in min 3 and, so not the same efficiency. Also different if you playing with single target buffing spells but for this list the small units are great. Played them against all sorts of opponents KO, Stormcast, Beast, Nurgle, Khorne, Bonereapers, Slaves, Orruks etc etc.

I find the Ogor screens too slow/small/expensive. Much prefer using multiple small units to protect themselves rather then dedicated screens. Assuming you have a few hard hitting units that are using your first few combat activations and aren't competing for drops, small units are just more useful: don't have to worry about Bravery, you can split fire efficiently, 1" range isn't an issue, you maximise champions and opponents waste damage overkilling units. 120 points, so our cheapest hero and a caster to boot. I found that you really need a 3rd character for missions that need them and having one unbind/dispell can make a bit difference compare to completely abandoning the magic phase. 8+ to cast is unreliable, but lower cast rolls will tend to get easily dispelled anyway (never going to really compete in the magic phase outside bloodgullet). Stick near the maw pot and it's casting more than half the time and can be game winning, especially if you get it off before you get double turned.

It's a lot better than it looks on paper. The small units are great as they mean you don't have to worry about Bravery, you can split fire efficiently, 1" range isn't an issue, you maximise champions and opponents waste damage overkilling units. So if you going with mass Leadbelchers I'd use lots of small units every time. The Battalion is mainly there to reduce drops and get the artefact but I prefer that one as it means you don't have to over invest in characters (while not being screwed by character focus missions) and you aren't forced into taking gluttons, who just don't fit with the rest of the list.

My Underguts list that is undefeated at 2k after 12+ games: Tyrant: General + Trophy Rack Firebelly + Billowing Ash Frostlord on Stonehorn, Metal Cruncher + Gnoblar Blast Keg. 4 Ironguts 2 * 4 Lead Belchers 2 * 2 Lead Belchers 4 * Iron Blasters Tyrant's Gutguard. As others have mentioned it's not a pure shooting army, but has enough shooting to force people towards you. Personally I love the Iron Blasters as they are hard to kill, fast, mildly competent in combat and force people towards you. There presence also forces people to take first turn against you rather than out-dropping you they give you a not very productive first turn before potentially double turning you. Every unit (except the Ironguts) can do damage in Shooting, charge and combat phase separately which means you don't waste much damage output overkilling things. A massive advantage that's easy to underestimate. The Ironguts are usually the star players as people tend to focus on the Frost Load and Iron-blasters, so the Guts are relatively free to decimate stuff.

Killer Kans could work as a helmet.

Obviously followed by wave 3, Mega'est Gargants On a slightly more serious note, I'm considering converting my Sons of B into 'Sons of Gorka-morka' mega Orruks. The main problem being I'm not confident I have the skill to re-sculpt the heads into something more Orruky. Can anyone think of something (GW or not) that has an Orky head that would be big enough to not look silly on a mega gargant body?

Wave 2, Mega-mega Gargant kit with options to assemble one as King Brodd. each 30" tall

Are their enought that this is an issues? Hand of Dust and Slayer of Kings are the only ones I can think of (that effect models with lots of wounds) and both are on 800point+ unique characters and are highly situational.

Could also try MSU ruin bringer battalion. His army feels really weak to mortal wounds, so 4-5 units of 1 chariot doing 4ish mortal wounds each on the charge will soon add up. The main things is to focus fire and make sure a unit is completely wiped out before moving on to the next. He's invested hundreds of points in healing and has very few wounds if you carefully take them down. Also make sure to force him to stretch out his lines so the Crawler isn't covering too many Mortek when you engage them.

Yup 100 points for 2 bases worth (each set of two Orruks on a single base is treated as a single model for all rules purposes).

Really cool list, I've been pondering a Big Rukk list too and think this is probably the best variant. Two questions, why no artifact on the Wierdnob? and do you find the Balewind useful given your spells don't really struggle for range? Would also love to see some battle reports.

Can't imagine more than maybe one quirky one not being allowed in a pure Sons list.

Ohh, your going to have a hard time. Slaanesh and Fyre slayers are both really good combat armies that you can't just smash into and expect to win. With both you need to avoid their heavy hitters (Keepers/Hearthguard Bezerkers) until you can completely overwhelm them. You're not far off having what I'd consider a 'standard' competitive list, generally 15-20 Ardboy units (to be buffed and telaported turn one), 2 warchanters, 1 shaman (unless your doing bloodtooth) and 1-2 Mawcrushers. Our battalions are so good they are almost mandatory, Ard Fist or Iron First being the best ones (unless your feeling rich and splash the cash on 15+ Gore Gruntas). So with what you have, I'd say you have three options: go for a second Mawcrusher, except a life of poverty and build a Gorefist, or invest in more infantry for more of a traditional Orruk feel.

I really want Morboyz to be good as that would allow for a solid onedrop army as they are linked to the only multi-hero battalion. Unfortunately they just don't fit a particular roll as well as other units. Small units are just outperformed by Boarboys/Manics in almost every way and bigger units really suffer with 1" range and no horde discount, you'll almost always want Stabbas instead. I sometimes play a unit of 10, maybe two, to hold backfield objectives against weaker flanking units but thats the only role I've found for them.

I really like units of 5 Boarboys with spears as small flankers. Fast, not too vunerable to battleshock, 26 3+/3+ attacks on the charge is no joke and they taken a good bit of punishment.

All of the Orruk Warclan factors can do well competitively (just look at the results from major events), Bonesplitters are probably the weakest but still have some great builds. Ogor shooting isn't the best of all armies, but the fact they are all good at combat too means you can field a 90%+ shooting list and not worried about loosing out on combat power. My Underguts have lost once in 20 games, including going 5-1 at Throne of Skulls (no hyper competative, but still). Stonehorns suffer a bit from the realm rules changes (only ever really fielded one realm artefact) but so did every monster reliance list, Slaanesh for example got a tripple nerf this year (points, FAQ changes and realm artifacts). 2 of our 3 books have multiple viable competitive builds. Death, by comparison have Bonereapers (massively nerfed) and flesheaters monster mash (also nerfed by realm changes) . Obviously Chaos and Order have more competitive options but they also have WAY more army books

Especially compared to Death, I think we are generally in a really good place. Lots of options (despite only a few books), some great competitive lists and some super models. The big issue is lack of (recent lore), but hopefully the Sons battletomb (and maybe some well times Black Library Action will help). We have great list for Magic (Great Waaagh), Shooting (Ogors), Monster Mash (lots) and combat. With the last round of GHB updates I think Ogors and Orruks can definitely compete on the top tables.

We'll definitely need something built in to help with objectives, which I imagine will be alligence related, but hopefull we'll get some cool sub-factions too in order to provide variety.

I definitely hope they will have an after save or - to wound to up the survivability just trying to temper my expectations. Attacks wise I was definately a bit miserly, but I do think it'll be more attacks rather than more rend. But that's pure guess work. I just hope they have decent alligence abilities, so their is some motivation to have a pure force. Not some Gloomspite Gitz "+1 to hit if it's a Thursday afternoon and your opponent has a ponytail' nonsense.

I'd be surprised if they have allot of -3 rend or 4+ saves. My guess 20-25ish wounds, 5+ save and maybe an after save. 10-12 move (starting). 6 4+/3+ rend -1 attacks, d6 damage.