Scurvydog

I like deathriders, but I think his list would work alright. There will be plenty of discipline points and with lots of mortek he can grab and hold points, as well as move many of them 7" + run if needed, that is often quite alright. I think the army can be done in quite a few ways at a decent level, someone will probably find a meta sooner or later, but right now I think both this idea of walls of shields and catapults is cool, while an army of kavalos and stalkers and morghasts is a less sturdy but faster and more aggressive approach. It will be fun to experiment with.

If I did not already have enough armies including Ironjawz I would go Ogors now, looks fun and much better unit variety than the green boys.

It is stated at the spell lore in the text above the spells. This is also why I think Arkhan hits the sweet spot for this army, he will always have something useful to cast. The spell protection of Nagash gives a 5+ ignore wounds and if you take any damage after the combat phase, then you can teleport him away and the spell then ends, but not before that, so it is an amazing tool to keep him alive. Arkhans major problem is relatively poor surviveability, so this and possibly a unit of immortis guards will work well I think.

Yea that part sucks, especially as the praetorians are so bad without Katakros. It will also be hard to fit Zandtos in when you run Katakros, and if you are playing Praetorians without Katakros, then what are you doing? So basically 2 useless special characters, which is sad. Also I suspect many armies would like to put the first artefact not forced by a legion on a Liege Kavalos, with that sweet 12" +1 hit bubble hat, it is sooo good.

yea against a 4+ save, the stalkers with the +1 dmg and rend will dish out 10,4 average damage, while the Morghast archai with halberds will do 6,6 damage on average. The stalkers can use a point to reroll charge/run and pass terrain, decent. The Archai get a 5+ mortal wound save, -1 bravery aura and +3 movement and fly. You can argue that the Archai also requires to take a bit more damage before they lose output though. Both units got the Hekatos keyword, so they can use the advance ability and any from a legion, for example the +1 rend from petrifex elite, in case you need -3 or even -4 on the falchions! They also give themselves the 6+ deathless save, and since they enjoy going of on their own at times, this should not be overlooked either. I might give the slight edge to Stalkers due to sheer output and versatility, the +1 dmg and rend for stalkers is what takes them up so high, as simply rerolls to hit would give them the same output as the morghasts. Both fun to run next to a harvester as well.

Looking at artifacts did anyone notice that sweet helm for Lieges, adding +1 to hit for all bonereapers wholly within 12", well that is going to be the auto include a LOT... The soulmason also has an artefact giving +1 to wound in a 9" bubble against anything but death armies. I also like the soul resevoir for him giving +2 to cast until you first get a 10+ cast, great for getting of endless spells, and combine that with the terrain giving -1 to unbind on a 2+, nasty stuff.

Another note is we got cheap battalions, and remember for Bonereapers they give a discipline point each turn besides the artefact. 2 of them, the deathglaive and aegis immportal are just 80 pts each, and use 2 units of 4 arm dudes and 1 variant of morghasts, so this at least gives some extra consideration to what you prefer. I can see this being handy in a caster heavy list, you can run morghasts next to Arkhan for example, and guards next to other wizards. The kavalos lance is great, although funny enough less interesting for the Stallarch lords who already have access to retreat and charge, still being able to do so for free within 12" of the hero and also a free use of their charge skill is great. The Shield-corps looks good if you prefer a caster heavy list, if you run with a Liege and other heroes, you should otherwise have enough discipline points, as all the battalion does is give 1 free use per turn. Weapon choices in general is tough, so I guess they are ok balanced. If in doubt I'd say Mortek guard units of 20+ use spears and Kavalos 10+ unit use spears. Even then for Kavalos it is close, as they can possibly pile in 3" more with their ability (mad to charge and NOT use it), so getting those swords in range is easier, and you also want those horse attacks too. Rend 1 is a big deal and getting exploding hits on a 5+ on the charge with spears for the cav is not a huge bonus, but worth considering. As for legions the Petrifex elite are quite powerful, and will probably be the goto for many armylists. The +1 save to everyone and the actually very good command ability to add 1 more rend is great, that can really up the oomph of a Kavalos charge or similar. The trait and artefact are meh, but not a waste. Mortis praetorians are a matter of if you are bringing Katakros or not, if not, don't bother. But I suspect we will see Katakros quite a bit, that cheeky ****** is great and looks so fun and thematic. Stalliarch lords and the null myriad are the situationally powerful ones, although I will say the Kavalos battalion really makes me question the stalliarch lords. The Null Myriads are just a big middle finger to casting armies, the most hated opponent for Tzeentch of all time, for 1 point you can just ignore spells on a 2+ and there will be few 2k armies not generating at least 4 discipline points a turn minimum, yikes. The Ivory host is just poor I think, a sort of unreliable and iffy +1 hit -1 save rule, which you can then also spend points to just be good old boring +1 hit. Both the trait and artefact are also the worst so doubt I will ever use this one. The Crematorians are those death players who wished they played Gitmobs well, I can see some fun combos with the harvester, but the command ability, trait and artefact are all terrible, so this will probably be a "for fun" legion.

The harvester is incredibly good. 200 points and very killy for that price with a total of 10 attacks with 2 dmg and rend 1 or 2, very nice, and either mortal wounds on 6 or reroll to hit against "hordes". The ability also just states any roll a dice for each model slain within 3", so both enemy and your own, so I can see this guy going along with some spear guards will basically return them on a 4+ when he is around, incredible. The catapult is a real star too, 3 shots with 5 damage is decent and some sneaky alt ammo shots, I like it and it forces your opponent to come to you a bit more. The immortis guard are obviously not as killy as stalkers, which is nice they are not just alt weapons but got vastly different roles. With all those support heroes they can be very handy, like running them next to Arkhan or basically any of your important heroes is worthwhile, considering how important heroes are. Morghasts is the only source of fly, and a point increase makes sense considering the great buffs they get from all the synergies. Anyhing in Petrifex ups the value a lot, and they can also use the command abilities, giving them a clear role in the army. The Cavalry and the cavalry heroes also got clear roles, I like the heroes give 1 extra relentless point and have a decent command abilitry (which you will have more use out of then other armies). With their base 3+ saves they will also be rather tough. The basic cavalry is also decent, although the spear option is a bit underwhelming and I am leaning towards blades, especially with their command ability getting them in range will be easier than normal. The spell lore and spells for the wizards are also really in the support department, and puts emphasis on the theme of the army, that you really need to work out synergies and have a clear plan, no single unit, spell or ability will let you crush anything alone, you got to set up those combos and chose the right spells for your list. The odd one out to me is the soulreaper, as his spell is rather weak, but I guess he has a place in especially meeting engagements, as he can fight a bit too. All in all I love the allegiance abilities, and this army really pushes the legions, so running a non legion list seems like madness. The abundances of discipline points to use makes this feel like a real army, instead of some warscrolls to just brute force things with. This takes planning and you have something to consider and do in every phase of the game. At the same time the army avoids the worst power creep, such as activation wars stuff and I do not see any single element here that will be super frustrating to play with or against. As such I doubt this will end up as a tournament sweeper and feels like it is closer to Gitz than Slaanesh on the scale. They do not have any fight again abilities, no fight first or last abilities or spells, no teleports/ambush, no summoning, no rerollable "feel no pain" saves. So they stay clear of basically all the current top meta game winning stuff. I do not think Nagash is worth his points here though, will be just about impossible to earn home those 880 points with what he has available, but I think Arkhan is a far more reasonable prospect and giving him some immortis guards sounds like a good idea. My initial 1k meeting engagement list will probably be something like: Petrifex Elite (duh) Spearhead: 1 liege kavalos, 1 unit of deathriders. Main body: 20 mortek guard, 1 boneshaper Rearguard: 3 stalkers + Shrieker spell or 2 morghasts (mostly due to movement) Total 1000 or 980

Not knowing points yet it is hard to say if the units we see on the warscrolls are "worth it" but I do think they look just fine so far. Mortek Guard look good, tough and with access to a nice command ability, exploding hits and weapons based on squad size. Their Banner is giving +1 to run and charge is also great. A bit odd with the great blades, they seem a bit weak to even bother with mixing attack profiles, but nothing prevents the Hekatos from being the one taking a greatblade, so it is better than nothing I guess. As for stalkers their saves and wounds are completely in line with similar units of other armies, yet they have a nasty damage output and the command ability to pass through terrain and reroll runs and charges, that is nice. I am fine with Morghasts as they are, the warscroll itself was never bad, they just did not really get anything from their allegiance abilities, they will now. Both stalkers and morghasts got the Hekatos keyword too, so they pass around the 6+ save to themselves without needing hero support and whatever else a "Hekatos" might be able to do. I am not all that impressed with Volkmortian, other than being a 2 cast wizard and having his spells being -1 to unbind, the rest is rather gimmicky and hard to use and incredibly unreliable. The endless spells are ok, although I suspect the most commonly used will be the shrieker, but the predator is ok as well. The bird seems rather pointless though.

All the limitations with only 2 of each warsroll and also only minimum unit strength in rearguard and spearhead gives a lot of limitations. The reason I do not want to use any teleports, other than finding brutal cunning nearly mandatory especially in small games without ironfist, the meeting engagements has a rule that really makes teleporting a pain. This rule is "Deadly territory" which states that you must treat enemy arrival edges like enemy units, so any reserves/teleports etc must be set up more than 9" from them. Now look at all the meeting engagement battleplans and you will quickly see, that a lot of them has about half the edges of the board as arrival edges for your opponent, as in many plans you arrive with different parts of the army from different edges. Also remember the smaller board and then of course the actual enemy models on the board, and it suddenly becomes nearly impossible to teleport anything anywhere useful, especially against an opponent who is any good. As a result using bloodtoofs you will sit there with a near useless command trait and artefact instead. It might work sometimes, especially if you roll plan 1 where arrival is only from 1 board edge for each army, but otherwise expect to be extremely limited in its use.

Sure a MK is never a bad purchase, it might even be the best choice, despite eating up a lot of points. In these smaller games I really prefer no clan and brutish cunning, you need all the MD you can get for movement tricks. As these games a shorter and every single unit counts for a lot, I like the destroyer artifact on a megaboss, to really swing the favor and possibly have him trigger a smashin and bashin as well! My approach for next time will most likely be something like this: SPEARHEAD Orruk Warchanter (110) 5 x Orruk Brutes (140) - Pair of Brute Choppas MAIN BODY Orruk Megaboss (150) - General - Command Trait : Brutish Cunning - Artefact : Destroyer Orruk Warchanter (110) 6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320) - Jagged Gore-hackas REARGUARD 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) - Pig-iron Choppas TOTAL: 990/1000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 79 You can never be certain how things will enter the battle, although this should cover well enough regardless of when the forces enter and where. Alternatively a warchanter and brutes could be switched for 10 ardboyz and ironskulls boyz or a command point, but I think 2 warchanters bring so much value and it increases the chance to have one where you need it. Imagine putting it in the spearhead and you play a scenario where the spearhead first enters at the end of turn 2... nonono. With a MK the only real option is: SPEARHEAD Orruk Warchanter (110) 5 x Orruk Ardboys (90) MAIN BODY Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460) - General - Command Trait : Brutish Cunning - Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa - Artefact : Ethereal Amulet - Mount Trait : Mean 'Un 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) - Pig-iron Choppas REARGUARD 3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160) - Pig-iron Choppas TOTAL: 980/1000 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 61 I do think the other list is stronger and more versatile though, but a MK is a force to be reckoned with and it can bring down the hammer with a 2x12" movement whereever it pleases.

GW usually also only shows the coolest parts and leaves the "Tax" stuff out, like bad artifacts and command traits forced on your for different legions. Yes they CAN be tough in 1 of the legions giving 3+ save, Saurus guards can get 2+ saves but nobody cries about them, why are they not dominating the meta with that logic then? Quite clearly many factors are in play. I see no "fight again" command abilities, I see no fight first or fight last stuff either, the activation wars is everything currently and we have seen none of that in the bonereapers. Saying anything we have seen is hideously overpowered is quite premature, at least compared to so many other things in the game currentl. Have you seen a Skarbrand buffed with more attacks and angry, doing 3 attacks doing 8 to 16 mortals wounds per attack on a 1+? then using 1 CP to do it again? Idoneth eels with 2+ unmodified saves and army wide first strike. DoK with 5+ rerollable damage ignore saves on their 10 pts battlelines. There is nothing indicating Bonereapers will smash anything to pieces of the top dogs currently, it looks good and solid, but I have seen no auto win stuff, and especially with no points, even the stuff we have seen is hard to value properly.

I think Ironjawz in particular has a huge issue there. This is because of the spearhead, main body and rearguard setup and their limitations. With only 4 rounds as well, that means the 3 parts of your army in most cases will have 4, 3 and 2 movement phases. This is problematic, especially in small games where access to mighty destroyers is more limited, and even then, you can't guarantee when for example your megaboss with brutal cunning even enters the field if you roll a random battleplan. This also goes for warchanters, as all the real power in the book rests on these guys, so getting them in too late is a disaster, as their stuff has relatively short range, they are super slow and using MD on them is too CP costly. The only 2 of the same warscroll rule, and minimum size unit for anything but main body also hurts, as you are hard pressed to field units above 5 man strength. This is a huge issue playing against armies with minimum size units of 20, you will never get those objectives before killing every single enemy, and you will lack the tools to remove them you'd have in a standard game. As IJ relies so much on their support hero, CPs and Command abilities, and to maximize those in units not being minimum size, we hurt bad from this. If your megaboss on foot decides to come in at the end of turn 2, he will only have 2 movement phases with his 4" move, most likely doing nothing, as well as any brutes or ardboyz you might have come in, at the end of turn 2. Especially in the battleplan where all units come in from the backline 3" from the edge, that is a horrible place to come in, on 4" move units with only 2 battlerounds to do anything. I like the idea of meeting engagements, and the way it spices up smaller games, but while not unplayable, I do not find Ironjawz super enjoyable in this format.

Don't know what to think, this one takes it further: But we already were told by GW at least mortek guard and stalkers would be up for preorder next saturday. It seems strange if there suddenly is an entire week between tome and spell releases for reapers before the actual army releases all at once.

Even though we already knew the terrain rules, I think the -1 to both cast and unbind on enemy wizards will be the go to if the enemy has any kind of half decent casting and you have a wizard in your army as well, as -1 to both casting and unbinding is rather crippling and also goes of on a 2+ rather than 4+. Soul Link is an interesting mechanic and can make predatory spells more fun. I hope the bird has something more going for it, at least some interesting synergies with line of sight will be needed for it to be of any use at all. If it said that anything visible to the bird was visible for all bonereapers, I could imagine it working out well for other casters or the catapults or something, but it only benefits the caster, who is now also at -1 cast from being soulbound, sounds very niche at first, but maybe it has more rules yet.

I don't think we are seeing all the rules to these endless spells, expect movement values etc I think there are more to them, for example the choosing s specific prey for the predator and I would think the bird does a bit more than just provide line of sight, that seems rather underwhelming in itself, although I am thinking it might have some kind of synergy with the catapults perhaps...

They have at the very least confirmed the Mortek Guard and the Stalkers for next week, if the leaks in the rumor thread are true, then just about everything else will be for preorder next week, but I do not trust that completely. It would be nice though, I am not a fan of staggered releases, often I want to set up a specifik 1k force to start things of with and paint up, and delivery costs etc make it annoying having to split things up, when you are too impatient to wait for it all to be out

Looking at the last data from the honest wargamer and the latest 39 events and 7787 matches using GHB2019 It is very ovvious waht is doing well, with Slaneesh taking 12 1st places, Skaven taking 7, FeC and DoK both at 3 and then less for the rest. I know competetive players gravitating towards the most OP warps the data even more, but regardless it is incredibly obvious that 2 armies accounting for half the 1st place tournament spots, and 1 of these having nearly twice that of the other, is incredibly off. Also for example Slaneesh having a 5.8% meta representation can easily be comapred to that of 5,6% of the Gloomspite Gitz, but Slaneesh having 24 podium players, the Gitz have 3. In GW's "defence" it seems the rest of the field is relatively well balanced, and these few armies are throwing a wrench in it all. This reminds me a lot of F1 racing, with the best drivers also being put into the best cars, so you see the same people in the same types of cars winning most of the time, instead of cars in Warhammer it is battletomes.

After having played some of the new 1k meeting engagements with the new Orruk book, I can only conclude to bring as many Gruntas as possible, as such 3 in spearhead or rear guard and 6 in the main body, their mobility is key. Having 2 warchanters is also really smart, to ensure at least 1 is on the board turn 2 regardless of scenario, to buff one of said gore grunta units. Gruntas also make much better use of mighty destroyers and can ensure charges much more easily, their downsides however are low model count for objectives and slightly less offensive output when not charging. I would not want to play Big Waaagh meeting engagements with no mighty destroyers, only slow ardboyz and random point generation. On another note Smashin and Bashin has been the absolute winner ability for all my games, and is incredibly important to overwhelm other brawling armies.

So assuming for a second that the leaked list is correct, then all the rest of Bonereapers should be for preorder Nov. 2 including some terrain as well? Then StD on the 16th and all the christmas battle boxes to preorder on the 30th? Makes sense as they launched on Dec. 1st last year. Will be interesting to see if the StD part holds water, they did a surprise with the Mawtribes just now, so I will not dismiss the possibility that the list is true.

We need to see all the command abilities and some general traits to begin truly judging, but as is, the +1 save looks inredibly good, while the -1 bravery aura from the Mortis praetorians looks absolutely garbage compared to the rest. However then we throw in all the other stuff, like Katakros himself and also the moutned character being from the Praetorians will mix things up, especially Katakros as they show giving +1 to save as well in addition to the +1 hit for his own legion in a 18" bubble for an entire battle round, that is absolutely crazy value for 1 CP. The command abilities seem powerful and important as well, just imagine a blob of mortek guard protecting Katakros with the command active and their shield wall, and ALSO the option to get reroll to hit after an opponent charges. They will have 3+ rerollable saves, with +1 to hit and rerolls to hit, super scary to run into those guys! I am so excited to see more about Katakros, it sounds like he is a support buffer, probably CP battery and such as default, and gets more combat oriented when damage which sounds like an awesome mechanic, only really seen anything remotely similar with Morathi who can drastically change role and abilities during a combat. On his account alone we will probably see a lot of Praetorians, possibly also if the mounted character is good as well. The most boring is the null myriad by far from the looks of it and the one I doubt we will see a lot is the Ivory host, while it is more interesting, it is sort of unreliable and not even that useful, the command trait looks really poor as well (each hero phase get +1 attack to profile on a 5+ roll), that is so unreliable and it does not even look like there will be a really hard hitting commander regardless. Speaking of heroes, it looks like the only martial/combat hero is the cavalry hero, and I do not expect him to be much different from something like a Knight of shouds on steed, so will artifacts and traits with a focus on the hero's combat abilities will probably not be all that useful, but I might be wrong though. I would fully expect anyone to want a real powerhouse general will have to look at Katakros or Arkhan/Nagash, but these guys make command traits and artefacts a moot point anyway.

Imagine a blob of mortek guard within Katakros command ability using their shield wall, a blod of guys with 3+ rerollable saves and 2 attacks each with 2+/4+ and being immune to battleshock. Nasty business to remove. The +1 save faction though is hard to pass up too, even if Katakros got a +1 save bubble as well. Even Morghasts will be a whole lot tougher with 3+ saves.

Some really good stuff in there, I like how much it appears each of them will change the playstyle of the army depending just on legion. However the petrifex elite stands out with their +1 save, that is incredibly good and always useful. Katakros command ability is also darn sweet and depending on his other rules and points of course, he sounds hard to pass up on. The stalliarch lords seem really good but depends a lot on the warscrolls of the cavalry obviously, especially if they get some nice charge bonuses, having the option to retreat and charge will be important. I am not really feeling the null myriad, mostly because the rules for the other legions seems like they would be far more useful in more situations. The crematorians also seem a bit gimmicky, but that is alright I guess and using hordes of mortek guard who explodes on death could really be a problem, depending on the ability to restore them as well from the support heroes. All in all very happy with what I am seeing and pretty hyped. The color schemes are nice to see as well, although I am very boring and will end up close to the Mortis Praetorians, with a dash of thousand sons inspiration thrown in.

I agree GGs and MKs are the stars along with warchanters of course. Mostly combined with mighty destroyers GGs can move 18" and the MK 24" and be a threat to just about anything. Have the warchanters buff them up and send them flying like guided missiles has been what yielded me the greatest success by far. Don't get me wrong it is VERY powerful, I have aimed at usually 2 warchanters, to buff up a MK and a 6 man GG unit and simply delete 2 enemy units turn 1 and then hope that damage is enough to brawl it out from there. I would have loved to at least get a boss on a Grunta, the army needs that so much. I love the footboss model, but he never manages to get anywhere useful, but the MK can just be a bit overkill, especially if playing smaller games. The new meeting engagement really does not favor the slow Ironjawz, except for GGs. I hope the underworlds cards showing Ironjawz could be something just a bit interesting, like a new hero type or some spin on a brute unit.

Played a few more games and it proved my thoughts about the book again, as I crushed a legion of Azghor player, despite some poor luck on my part I still managed to crunch through it all, thanks to smashin and bashin and warchanter buffs. My lost games so far has been against Slaanesh, especially in smaller meeting engagement games, I found myself without the bodies or tools to do much, while my opponent had a KoS stand behind a line of 2x20 marauders, poking over them with his 2" reach and removing marauders in the back as needed, while keeping control of the center objective. He also managed turn 2 to cast the mirror endless spell at my table half, so my forces had to take d3 MWs every time they wanted to move closer to the center objective and to make matters worse he placed it next to my megaboss on foot, rolling 3 sixes and killing him with 9 MWs... I managed to deal 12 wounds in 1 combat to the KoS, only because 1 unit of brutes went first against demonettes and I got a smashin and bashin of so my other unit did not fight last anyway against the KoS. After that he proceeded to just table me. I suspected having no chance against a well played Slaanesh force, if your opponent is crafty and knows his stuff, there is very little to do, as I only got that 1 combat of due to him being cocky. The 3 KoS tournament setups will probably be a gatekeeper for Ironjawz, so doubt we see many nr. 1 IJ at events, however IJ will bash most other armies which are not on top of the activation wars, as Ironjawz can deal the pain, but not really take it. I am however already sort of bored with the book, so few units and so few options. I still find all the clans kind of bad and even worse boring. General traits have 2 good ones and also only a few worthwhile artifacts. It all makes it very samey unless you just go for random or for the lols. Just looking at the upcoming Ogor book it seems they get a truly combined force, a new hero model, terrain etc, Orruks is just a minimum effort piece and I will probably keep the army as a backup army, and everyone is already bored of playing with or against it here...