Rachmani

But it’s a battle box, where everyone gets a lane foot hero. I‘m kinda stemming myself against the tide of doom and gloom, because of how awesome the IDK look. They are probably the prettiest of the new factions, currently hindered by old rules. Ofc you want new models, and I‘m with you on that. All the ideas you mentioned sound great, amazing even - and show how expandable the range really is. It has such a solid foundation. Add a monster at a time, or a monstrous unit (I imagine the cuthuluesque elves to be of Ogor size) and the army will be fine for expansions to come. And that’s amazing. No need to worry about the IDK, they‘ll be great.

Do the Idoneth need that much stuff? Need as in „need because the range is sh*t“ not „need because more is better“. Imo what they first and foremost need is a book with better internal (and somewhar external) balance. Should they get that they’d be a great army. Now, do I think they *should* get some more units? Absolutely, but if the book is good and all they get is a giant crab as a fighting monster… I think nobody would complain. They fyreslayers on the other hand have such a small range, I have no idea how to fix them apart from souping them.

All of your points are valid, but all of them are also exaggerated. Toned down a notch you‘d have hit the nail on its head.

I know, I just used the wording of their announcement to sneak in another wave of LRL and a new book for them

A major reveal makes me think it‘ll be more than just a few old models with 2 heroes, but rather - in the style of the 40k Battlebox - a collection of mostly new miniatures and the promise of two new books in the near future. Dwarf Soup & LRL version 3, „Rise of the Water Temple“.

So, book‘s out for a bit now. Are you guys happy with how the krulest of bois perform so far? Who overperformed, who underperformed so far? Any new findings during playtesting? I‘ll start with bolt boys hurt but die like flies. Gutrippaz are… strange. It‘s like their perfect use slips through my fingers every time I almost got them figured out. Still like them, still too expensive. mirebrute hurts more than I thought it would. The Killaboss on foot (and sometimes on gnashtooth) overperform all in all. Swampcallers can be a trap, but rock in the right dosis. I despise LRL aka Sentinels the army.

I feel like Gits & Skaven need special rules that allow them to reinforce more.

It’s too good a game to drown. If the miniatures are going to be good it’ll be fine.

I think people should try to envision themselves in other peoples shoes more while being honest to themselves. Otherwise discussions like this will lead to nothing. Like what does „playable“ even mean? In what context? What do people want from an army? What level of professionalism is needed to succeed, have a fun time etc. If we don’t establish some context we‘ll discuss for hours on end and still be left with nothing of value.

While I am a bit underwhelmed by the actual results, I do feel pretty good about the changes they made. So it’s probably just a matter of time now. Get the ball rolling, then see another, somewhat bigger wave of changes with the 2022 GHB. Them changing warscrolls is big. Means other warscroll changes are on the table as well.

It’s a start, I guess! Lots of work to be done, but hey, for a winter FAQ it‘s not that little. In the context of bold moves needed for the top and bottom brackets, well it’s simply not enough.

Offensively they‘re worse, with less options to buff their output. But with that being said, I‘m not going to argue with you. Rippas are an odd unit with odd point costs. Once they’re in the right spot though, I think they’ll be good and work exactly as intended.

Glad I kept my CC box. Didn’t sell it because of the awesome models and with more stuff on the horizon I‘ll probably find the motivation to paint the minis and eventually collect SBGL and descend into madness some 120 zombies later.

40 points seems a lot. I expect 20. But then again, plague bearers are what, 150? I‘d probably put the rippas in the same price range, so 140 is certainly possible and at 140 they get really interesting.

That’s why I believe those armies have to be taken care of first, and only then we‘ll get a good sense of how IJ really fare.

This is probably just due to their change in balance. Bad timing for the IJs and maybe SCE. But then I‘d rather take better and more frequent balance updates over some warped sense of justice that everyone should get the SoB treatment. That’s not what you suggested; still wanted to mention it. As for convincing people to change their lists… I think it’s enough to strengthen internal balancing. A brutes list with ardboy screens should for example have advantages the mirror. It all depends on how good shooting armies will be after the update. Hopefully they‘ll cut them down quite a bit, to make room for slower armies.

I think you‘ve stated the central point of any nerf/buff discussion around IJ. Will IJ still just table and destroy their opponents, once chaff & better positioning resurface? If they still do - that’s a problem. If they don‘t - they‘re the actual saviour of AoS, ending the reign of the ranged terror yadayada. Meaning, they‘ve forced shooting armies to spend more points on chaff. I can see the point of nerfing MKs for the sole purpose to encourage more 1 MK lists, though. But I‘m not sure about GGs… . I‘d like people to adapt and screen first & then take action.

Once a hero has reached the 3+ mark his points usually go up. On that note, do we have a general idea on things changing with the winter faq? Any rumours and such? GGs & warchanters? None of the above? I don’t think IJ need a change as of now, but certain things (like triple WCs) are potential red flags for me.

I think LRL being better KB is actually interesting, once both factions settle one the right point values. So that problem will not last forever. As a faction I find them 100 times more interesting than some boring alpha strikers. It‘s just that the decisionmaking is not always there.

I think they‘re very timing based. Now, I’m not saying they’re perfectly tuned but between their abilities, the buffs and our waaagh they can be really, really scary. It‘s a very synergistic intent, maybe not perfectly executed, but well enough that a point reduction will do wonders. At like 160-170 they open up quite a lot of other elements while keeping the same core. I wouldn’t be surprised to if in like half a year we see some lists doing really, really well. Lists we haven’t tested out so far. 60 Gutrippaz, 2 sludgerakers & a vulture. Maybe that’s ne good ******. P.S. 20 MW is terrifying in the age of savestacking when you think about it. We have our Waaagh.

I don’t think they are that bad. Far from it, actually. Just a tad too expensive. Imo the Sludgeraker is enough of a buff to male Gutrippaz pretty terrifying, while I use a shaman for the big unit of boltboys

I agree, but there are rather specific requirements to that buff (for both the shaman & the target unit) and in my experience so far two often double up or are equally useless (at least on gutrippaz). I really like them as a boltboys amplifiers, though. With that being said, once opponents target them, the second one might become mandatory.

That’s one of those lists, where you really wish for an extra 20 points and get the Boss on Gnashtooth. Personally I‘m not sold on the double shaman in a 1 boltboys, no beastskewer list but that’s maybe just me.

I think the solution to this will be on the LRL side rather than ours. The matchup feels super bad with how you generally want to field krulez. MSU works well against a block of 30, but i don’t like MSU that much against other stuff.

I‘d be down for that. (We still would need to cut faction bloat, but that would then be another matter.)