Satyrical Sophist

I’ve not played as much as I’d like this year but have thoroughly enjoyed what I did play. I really like third edition. I think moving into fourth I’d like things to be more honed rather than a radical change. Thaaaat said, if we were looking for changes I do have some things I’d be interested in seeing. I’m going to include some changes I think would be interesting first, then do a Good/Bad/More specific what I’d change. General Changes. More Tags I know some people want universal rules for a lot of things, and I can see it working, but I would really like units to get more keywords. We currently have stuff like Andtoran Locus, or Galletian Veteran, or Galletian hero. I would love to see these roles and more added onto units. Rather than having to define the terms for each time a GHB wants to care about them have them already in place. If they don’t do anything, fine, but it means if you ever want to do something to interact with all priests under 10 wounds who aren’t mounted it’s a lot easier. I imagine they would use fancy words for them, but RABBLE, LIGHT INFANTRY, HEAVY INFANTRY, LIGHT CAVALRY etc would let them refer to whole groups much easier. Does it run the risk of bloat? Maybe, but I think information can be included at the bottom in the tags much easier, and it’s only relevant if something wants to refer to it. Priority roll. I don’t have a problem with the priority roll myself but I know a lot of people do. One thing I do think is a big part of that is how much comes down to one single dice roll. Now, this idea might not work but I love the way warcry does priority. A short explanation is this. Each player rolls 6 dice and sorts them into singles, doubles, triples and quadruples. (so if you rolled 1 2 2 3 4 4 then you would have 2 singles (1 and 3) and 2 doubles.) The player with the most singles gets to choose who goes first, but doubles, triples and quadruples can all be spent on abilities. In warcry you also get a wild die each turn that you can either save for later turns, or add to your rolled dice. So you could choose to add another Single to try to take priority, or turn a double into a triple etc. I really like the system as a way for determining priority because the player who doesn’t get to choose priority tends to have access to more powerful abilities. What those abilities do would need to be determined but it has a lot of scope for being tuned. Something like a double might be worth a command point, but something like a quad probably wants to be quite a big thing. Allowing triples and quads to have out of sequence activations would be interesting, something like allowing a movement in your opponents turn, or a shooting action for example. Heroic Actions. The good. I know heroic actions are somewhat rules bloat, but I do enjoy the way they prevent spam. I particularly like when they tie rules to them. Thematically the Free Guild Cavalier Marshal having a bonus effect when doing Finest Hour is a lovely piece of rules design to me. I like it. Heroic Actions. The bad. Some factions just don’t have much to do with them, and that can feel pretty bad. Heroic Actions. What I’d like changing. If you added in the tags then heroic actions are a really easy thing to have interact with them. Let a small foot hero who has the HEIROPHANT keyword (meaning a small priest say) do a heroic action that gives them +1 to prayer rolls. Give the ADJUTANT keyword a 2+ to generate a command point, something like that. If you used a warcry style priority this is also a good point to interact with that system. Let heroic actions be some way of generating new wild dice, let another one count your ability nice as one higher than it is. I have a lot more, but I should probably think them through more and type it up when I have more time.

I suspect people are baking in a single unit of dread spears entirely as sorcerer fodder, without considering it as other elves. It’s a pretty minimal investment that gives a battle line and screen, if you are going for two sorceresses then it’s not a lot of points each. It might also be that if you are taking anklet for the extra range on blizzard, though a battlemage might be better for that. Executioners are higher damage than hammerers unless the target has a 5+ save, in which case hammerers are the same (executioners better vs 6+) as well. Hammerers are more efficient points wise against some targets, since they are 20 points cheaper. Specifically Hammerers edge out Executioners in efficiency unless the target has a 2+ or better save. Executioners are amazingly efficient vs insane save stacking, since so much of their output is MW based. If you put tenebrael blades on them the output is insane even on a per point basis, expecting to put out 26 unsaved wound for 10 elves. That said, if you are putting TB on a unit, that unit is going to do nutty things. Black Guard are a bit behind (they have the same profile without the mortal wounds, which aren’t as good with TB) with about 23, are 30 points cheaper, have 2 inch range and are very likely to have a 4+ ward.

Hammerers do not have mortal wounds, they just have the -2 rend by default. Executioners are -1 but have 6s turn to mortal wounds (and attack sequence ends). I’ve only seen executioners in lists, but I suspect that’s due to them being elf based lists. I was gonna give you the damage numbers for executioners in comparison but I noticed that I’ve accidentally given them MW on 6s to wound in my calculation, so I’ll have to fix that in the morning. I need to do some updates anyhow. I want to see what the command corps expected melee output is. I think it might be higher than I expected.

Is there a reason you use apostrophes for decimal places by the way? I've of commas being used in spanish, but I keep thinking you mean feet and inches. On an extremely petty note, by that standard it should be 8.9, since its 8.8 recurring. On a less petty note, that damage number is wrong unless you are choosing not to take the champion weapon. Under that, you get 9.8 damage at at least AP 1, ( Its 8 at rend 1 and 1.8 at rend 2), so 10% higher damage . Not moving its obviously half that. Blissbarbs have a 6+ save by the way, that is a LOT more fragile. I do think that Dwarfs need some help, I just think its way less than one might expect. Hammerer damage is already kind of nutty (Its actually pretty much the highest in the book, the only things rivalling it are Engage the Foe Cavaliers and Engage the Foe Relic Griffons, and those have less damage at the high rend numbers). Its weirdly easy to get rend -4 hammerers (counter charge and runelord do it). Cities as a whole has a 49% win rate by Woehammer's combined winrates, same for its RTT/Casual, and 50% for its GT winrate. We kind of look like we are doing OK. Honest Wargamer has a lot of cities good results this week by the way. Reasonably varied, some aelf focused, some more human focused. Lot of Griffons and even a Black dragon showing up. Duarden didn't make any appearances that I saw

I’m pretty sure the AoS rules team aren’t going to take your feedback on that, despite your passion. Cities have been out in full for about 11 weeks, which included Christmas and stuff, and are an army that isn’t the fastest to paint. I’m not surprised that they aren’t winning a bunch of tournaments, though I have seen a number of 4-1s. I’d honestly be a bit worried if they had won a bunch. I do agree that I have they were relatively conservatively pointed, and feel they could use a helping hand, but I think you have an inaccurate view of how much help they need. On the iron drakes, I’ve seen you post the 8’8 rend 1 damage thing on multiple forums and still have no idea what you mean by that. It also ignores that the grudgehammer is rend 2. The iron drakes damage output is already competitive with most stuff in the game. I agree that the no movement thing is a major downside, but you let the march order benefit them then they end up being move 7, high damage shooting with a pretty good armour save. I really like iron drakes, but I think you might need to increase points if you gave them that. Personally it might be a bit too specific, but allowing Iron Drakes to choose between counting as stationary for the order OR getting 3” movement might be enough? They’d still be slow, but able to move somewhat. You already can’t try to use multiple whisperblades on the same command, that’s not a rule change it’s just the rule. I think in terms of rules changes I wouldn’t mind a change to Warforger spell, making it either target or maybe even only effect melee. If you made the spell melee only I think it would open up a potential big points drop to fusiliers. Otherwise I think general minor points drops would be nice, potentially bigger ones to our monsters. A big overall concern is shooting getting too good, we don’t want leaf blower lists. It’s not fun, it’s not good for balance and it gets you nerfed hard.

I would wait a little bit, with an expected balance slate so soon. The command corps are probably too cheap with what they do. I think ideally points overall come down for CoS, but Corps feel a bit too good in comparison to some other options. Speaking of the balance data slate, what are people hoping for? It feels like we could do with something, but it might not need too big a change for it to become problematic. I kind of wanted Iron Drakes to get the benefit from march and count as remain stationary, but that might make them too efficient too easily.

I kind of wish there was a generic maggoth rider, feels like a missing thing. It’s kind of weird that lord of affliction is the only option for a non unique foot hero who isn’t a small foot hero.

I don't know which way you are arguing RAI to be, I could see it going either way. I personally think the intent is that it improves the ward for them, but is hard to maintain. If their intent was to specifically disallow units with bigger bases a much better way would be to say "Wounds characteristic of 7 or less", which achieves the same result. Notably the vargulf base (90 by 52) is also too big to benefit. It would be easy enough to extend that to include Vargulfs in a few ways either by having it be 8 or less wounds or just excluding monsters.

I read that rule. If you measure between the closest model then the closest model to the left side of the big monster is different to the closest model to the right side of the big monster. I think it's waiting on an FAQ which unfortunately won't be out for ages.

Doko has strong feelings on things. I've found its best to agree to disagree. Battle line chaff is a hard thing to point. AoS doesn't tend to go below 80 points for a unit, so there is a fairly high floor, and when the objective is to die in place then you need to work out what benefits each has. Steel Helms. They get a ward and can benefit from human buffs, which can be pretty significant and they turn on a unit of hunters and fusiliers as battle line. I suspect a lot of lists run exactly one unit for this reason. The other thing is that I think the command corps are a solid unit and end up cheaper per wound than the steelhelms. Both of the Darkling Covens Elf battle line units are pretty much better than steel helms unless you are using synergies. I like the 6++ on an objective but its situational. I do like some bonus movement though and the extra bravery can make a difference. Having effective 7 bravery over effective 6 bravery means chip damage matters less and for these guys means that the sorcerer killing one doesn't risk more running. Duardin battle line feel a bit too expensive for me, When you are looking at 130 points I'm much more tempted by some of the conditional battle line. I might be misreading what you are saying but it sounds like you are choosing between a +1 to cast and the save buff? If you pick the save buff then the warforger can't cast spells at all. I think under the new wording you can run 2 warforgers, have one use the +1 save buff and the other cast the spell, but in that case you will not have the +1 to cast buff. I'm a bit tired and might be reading what you mean wrong though.

Looking at trying a bit of a mixed list. Been very slow to to start assembling and painting due to real life stuff but this is what I'm currently aiming to paint up first. Fits in two battle regiments. Freeguild Griffon General with damage relic and can't be wounded on better than 4+ Alchemite Warforger Cavalier Marshal 20 Fusiliers 10 Steel Helms Free Guild Command Corps Wildercorps Hunters Freeguild Cavaliers 5 Drakespawn Knights 5 Drakespawn Knights Drakespawn Chariot Drakespawn Chariot Drakespawn Chariot 1980. Plan was for a somewhat reasonable list without spamming anything.

I think I mind templates the least in rank and file games. The big problem with them for me is in skirmish games where you have a lot more control of coherency. Technically it really makes a massive difference being as spread out as possible Vs clumped up, but it's a lot slower to do right. In old world it's only skirmishers that you need to worry about.

Two heroes only taking up one hero slot for 80 points each is pretty tempting.

I will try to give a more helpful response when I get a chance but looks interesting! I have a couple of questions. Are you assuming that Steam Tank Commanders are meant to get the steam tank keyword for issuing the command to themselves and another tank? I'd be really tempted to see if I could find the missing 10 points to upgrade the steam tank to a commander, the extra shots and option for extra orders seem good. The other thing is that I don't think a hurricanum can take blizzard? It has to be a locus and has too many wounds I think.

I think you are looking for stuff that does unusual stuff and doesn't depend on orders or unique magic. The command corps being able to stop commands is situationally very powerful, and the command corps are pretty cheap per wound. Keeping the spy and sawbones alive til last let's you keep stopping command traits and the unit can heal itself back up (it's not amazing at it, since you only expect about one model a turn, but it can spike). The khharibys (spelling is definitely wrong) is a relatively cheap monster that messes with the opponents morale. I don't think Dark Riders are good, but if the points drop slightly they also are a fast unit that messes with command points. I could also see some armies wanting to take scourgerunner chariots. 80 points for a fast shooting chariot. Some other stuff starts to bump up against the ally points limit, you can almost get a unit of drakespawn and 3 drakespawn chariots but end up 10 over.

I think SCE allies can be used to fill a few roles. I think our wizards are too good to replace for most of them, and heroes come at a bit of a premium for CoS due to orders. The only hero I am interested in is the Knight Judicator and maybe Ionus. The knight Judicator can put mortals down field and also comes with a pair of gryf hound buddies who can help with battle tactics. His shooting profile is pretty good as well, and if I remember correctly Greywaters additional AoA doesn't have restrictions on targeting, just that it needs to be issued by a Greywater hero. Having a profile of 3+/2+/-3/3 upping that to 2+/2+ is pretty nice. There are three other areas where I think SCE fill a gap, one major and two niche. If you have built a more castle based CoS build you might struggle to grab further away objectives. Something like the questor soulsworn, palladors, or vanguard hunters with teleport on demand could really help get you those points without having to break up your castle. That's an area where khinerai or tree revs could fit as well. The other areas are pretty niche but interesting. Gryff hounds are a cheap unit and at 9 inches move they are pretty much fast enough to travel with and screen caviliers if you run with them. I also quite like vigilors for being able to put a +1 hit debuff on an enemy unit, which can help if you are running MSU.

Rules for Ionus are up. At 400 he just fits in as an ally. I think as a Stormcast priest he gets access to the lethis prayer and can autosucceed on it. Might be optimism based on how cool I think the model is.

Hasn't the Stormcast been hunting for a solution to the reforging problem, his dragon to a dragon afterlife, and the bug rider hunting to keep the memory of his god of the hunt alive? Those all seem like long hunts.

My local shop has steam tanks in for some reason. Tempted to get some, had anyone tried steam tanks but not spamming them? Like 2-3? What do people think?

Very cool. What was your list? I was wondering about the Pontifex or potentially the command corps in a steam tank list. The opportunity for a ward save or healing 3d3 a turn seem well worth it.

I wonder how many spares you are left with to jazz up an old unit of ghouls. I think I saw someone counting heads and ending up with 19 or so? A head swap and an arm swap would make a big difference for old ghouls

13 points a wound on a 3+ is not bad though

I would really hate strike first on the charge. It would massively weaken strike first as a mechanic and also really push alpha strike lists. At the moment you need to choose where and when to engage, strike first on the charge is a big push to just always swinging in with combat capable units. I'm in favour of more conditional strike first, and units being able to combination attack, but not just blanket strike first. Failing a charge would be failing to organise enough to advance as a group in battle ready formation I guess, which is why it is easier the closer you are, stuff like musicians make it easier etc. Its a game choice to have your unit not advance at all as opposed to charging with some kind of penalty, or lost models or whatnot.

I think the best case for players would be to condense warscrolls and merge some of the Stormcast options. We already haven redeemers as a group name for Vindictors, Sequitors and Liberators. Merge the warscrolls, discontinue the oldest option and let people run them if they like the models, like how you can run phoenix guard as black guard. You can do the same for Paladins, maybe keep shield armed ones as a separate sheet, but otherwise it's just the same.

Thunder wolf Cav is on 60 round. Gore Gruntas are 90 by 52 oval. Gnashtoof is on 105 by 70 oval. I did always think that the existence of the great gnashtoof very much pointed to the existence of the regular gnashtoof, still hoping that gets a model at some point.