Reuben Parker

Yeah I can see switching the traits round to double up on each ones specific role (I love how many viable builds are in the new book). in terms of other things I really have no idea what the correct mix of units and BS to IJ is in a big waagh. I kind of think there’s no right answer probably and it can be successful in many forms. So far I’ve only got to play one game with IJ and none with big waagh in the new book. All I can say for certain is that MSU Brutes with choppas clan to give out triple chanter buff plus smashing and bashing was very powerful and MBoMK is so much better in this book compared to the old

I think perhaps although chews up a lot of points. Obviously needs a battalion to maximize with a second artifact as well. Then I would do the super survivable ironclad and Ignax scales with mean un then a destroyer with weird un. The destroyer one comes down the middle and puts out insane damage then probably dies. Whilst your general plays around the edges a bit more building up wounds and attacks and once the game is stretched the opponent shouldn’t have anything left to really hurt him. Either with a kunnin rukk for range or a ardfist for recursion.

There’s some slightly funny wording wording saying ironjawz must take ironjawz artifact and bone splitterz must take bone splitterz artefact. It probably needs an FAQ as it’s obviously intended that you can still take realm artifacts just an IJ character can’t have a splitterz artifact. However currently RAW your opponent could argue you can’t take realm artifacts in a big waagh (even though I think it’s pretty obviously not the intent). I would assume if they were planning to not allow realm artifacts it would have been stated as such “heroes in a big waagh may not select realm artifacts “but it does need clarification.

If it’s allies then no they can’t take any spell lore or artifacts. Really if you want to run both sets of units big waagh is the platform (and very good as well). One of the reasons I love the new book is that to me all 3 allegiances are very playable. To the point where I plan to add some bonesplitterz now and combine them into a big waaagh then probably expand so I can also run them solo. That way I will have access to all 3 allegiances for when I want to run different builds.

Indeed this also means they’re amazing against great saves even though they lack rend as you end up with nearly 1/3 mortal wounds (11/36) or more than 1 per model when you re roll all non 6s. Even more so as it’s not hard to buff them to 6 attacks per model for nearly 2 MW per model.

#alternativefacts not liking thralls and reavers is fine but saying there are no leadership mechanics apart CP is just flat untrue. Command trait Aspect Sea Lotaan Last Lament in other words there’s options in command trait cheap character, expensive character and artifact to help with morale.

I have done theory hammer for a thunderer list but lack the models. I would actually look at Zilfin and Iron Sky Squadron with MSU rifles whilst still having the ark hook fire base to do the heavy lifting Khemist navigator 30/10/10 arkanaut 3 frigates iron sky 5x5 thunderers deploy characters and thunderers in the ships for a one drop army.

Ohhh I like this similar to my idea but with even more bodies! Interested as to why the cats in 4s though and also why the pelt over wraith bow?

Not really sure about staple as such, as KO have various ways to build their lists but I do think with new points it’s very much in the mix. My view is it has lower overall damage output compared to other lists but is better at board control and sniping objectives due to being able to go heavy on MSU and still be 3 drop and beat out any non super battalion armies. My feeling is that current KO lists will be mainly based around either IRon sky squadron (probably 2 frigates but with new points can do 3) escort wing or an ironclad based army ..... the interesting thing with escort wing is I still can’t pick a best skyport from Mhornar, Thryng and Zilfin No matter what you run with KO I still feel a blob of arkanaut with a khemist is required to be the primary damage dealers.

Yeah 1K is a bit of a funny spot really for a lot of armies I find. At 2k I think with new points all ships are viable. 3 and 1 in an escort wing, 2-3 frigates in a squadron or an ironclad with no battalion (normally Barak Urbaz for double artifact and mass khemist buff). As a base every KO list is probably going to have minimum 40-50 arkanaut and 1-2 khemist so that’s a huge chunk at 1k.

It seems to break into 3 main bands I find. 1-2 drop for armies with viable super battalions although it feels like GW are trying to take this out of the game. 6-8 drops for armies with a battalion and extra support heroes / units 10+ drops for any others. So if you can get around a 4 drop that still has a lot of value as you will decide round 1 in all but super battalion matchups. Also if your playing a high drop army you need to have a build that can both survive alpha strikes and also take objectives from hordes who sit on them top of 1

Not really needing to wait for a new book, the ships need to be run in either an escort wing or Mhornar as the plus and or re roll makes them far More reliable. Also yes it’s a cannon and that evokes cool mental images but they’re not really primary damage dealers. Arkanaut, riggers and gun wardens all buffed by khemist are KOs main damage output. Ships are more skirmish units / drop reduction.

I have a great problem with the new points as I can’t decide what to move my list towards. I was always a believer that the best builds were either around a battalion for low drops and 2 artifacts (and with frigates / crawlers / wardens all a lot cheaper escort wing and squadron are both appealing). Or no battalion triple khemist, ironclad Barak-Urbaz which also comes down 100 points just on the 4 key models. I really hate that they nerfed the Loupe or Barack-Nar could actually be a meta foil to the heavy plus to cast armies. When it was 3d6 plus 1 on a model that can unbind multiple times it was great.

Yeah as long as you have a CP in your pocket to auto make the run a six if it’s needed, Yhetees have an automatic 21” threat range (9+6run+6pilein) whilst still being able to use activation order shenanigans. The one down side is that as your not charging you don’t get to make use of the re roll 1s to wound.

Indeed you can retreat / run / whatever and use your 6” pile in. Units with longer than normal pile in as long as they are worded they can be selected to fight also at the longer range (as some can’t) are the most flexible units in the game for Melee tricks.

As above Eurlbad appears to have some legs now and I do want to test a MW list just not sure on ratio of stonehorns to mournfang. Also they made our best unit cheaper in the Icefall Yhetees which kind of makes me want to double down on them now, along with my preferred large Skal. Hunter, General, wraith bow FLoSH, ethereal 3x9 icefall Yhetees 8 and 4x2 cats skal Big old wound count of 160 (although only FL is tough) and a lot of speed and damage output. Plus cats and Yhetees have great synergy when you sacrifice 2 cats to use up your opponents activation then pile in the Yhetees into the same unit from 6” away who now can’t be attacked.

That list looks nice the 2 shot cannons turn one with the ordinator will actually make the ships do a reasonable punch. Then the 40 ark blob does it’s work

To be fair we don’t Know if the battalion will maybe itself get cheaper. The leak I saw was missing some KO stuff. Also prosecutors are down to 90 in the SCE leak. I have looked at it before as it’s a tempting battalion (16 drill cannons in one turn from one unit). Also I don’t believe you get to shoot the star fated arrow every turn the battalion doesn’t override the once per game as far as I’m aware.

Just building on clown car obviously new points helps it. Plus the Zilfin teleport then disembark still works. I always advocate going MSU instead of big unit and khemist now the way the sarge gets extra shots and it allows you to just block people with 5 models at a time for cheap sacrifices also gave lots of separate mortal wounds vs charges if they contact multiple units. ironclad 5x5 thunderers in new points will clock in at 830 (90 points cheaper) if you really wanted to double down you could drop 1 unit add 12 Skywardens and a khemist to boost drill cannons ironclad 4x5 thunderers khemist 12 Skywardens 1280 on the clown car with that loadout and 180 cheaper than now! 20/10/10 ark 2nd khemist 100 points spare either a 3 man warden unit for screening and objectives or could do a 4 man thunderer unit also in the ironclad. Or something I was looking at before and new points makes a lot better is a triple frigate iron sky squadron with min arkanaut and heroes all full of MSU thunderers and again new points means a lot more fit in whilst still being a one drop army. 2 navigator 3x10 ark 3 frigate iron sky battalion 8x5 thunderer need to see finalized battalion points but based on old point for the battalion this list is 1970

Yeah damage output is the big issue with escort wing its more a slow chip away and feed opponent small units style. I think with new points can do a arkanauts fire base with khemsit probably even 30 man if dropping one of the Skywardens units. So that should hopefully provide the needed punch whilst the escort wing keeps them safe and grabs objectives.

As I a glass half full kind of person something else I’ve heard that would favour boat KO would be that new missions are going for increased objective count. I already prefer playing a skirmish style KO so should be good for that. Need to see final points as the leaks didn’t include all units and battalions but it’s looking like I should have 200 odd points spare. So either more sky wardens and thunderers or could go for a khemist upgrade and a 20 man sky hook unit for a bit of a fire base. Still not sure what skyport I like best either with the MSU style. Admiral navigator 3x10 Ark 3x3 sky warden full gun 2x5 thunderer rifles 3 gun hauler frigate escort wing 200+ points extra depending on final points. I might be able to squeeze in a 3rd thunderer unit admiral to khemist and a unit of 20 arkanaut which I think would be a fun and flexible list. Skyport wise I tried Mhornar but with MSU the re roll bubble isn’t great I might just go for Zilfin for teleport frigate, always 1s vs fliers and late game plus 6 runs for the ships to grab objectives.

It’s not minor reductions to be fair. For any balanced style lists your looking at close to 160 to 200 points extra. Plus they are wanting to rein in the more over powered armies DoK between wychs, heart renders and hags will lose close to 200 on a typical list. We will see what the “hot fix” for the new books missed by GHB brings. Thunderers in 5s with rifles are already quite efficient and with lower points are very pallitable. Riggers buffed by a khemist are an amazing Melee unit. Are KO going to be top tier without a new book.... probably not but I do feel they will be able to compete. Also saying KO are a bad shooting army is just wrong. 9 skyhooks +khemist + re rolls. Riggers shoot amazingly and sky wardens with full gun load outs are very good. Plus rifle thunderers do great damage to points ratio. The boats are not the armies main shooting units and yes the cannons need buffing and should be flat damage but even without that I think we will see KO do mixed ships and troops lists that can do ok.

Mine I’m just spraying gold then silver weapons. Probably purple or red cloth then some blue energy glow. With the new paints don’t really need to worry about shade / highlights.

Had some more thoughts on Mor’Phann style lists with new points. Max saving list tidecaster 4 render Lotann 30/20/20 thrall 20/10/10 reaver battalion ——- or maybe drop some heroes and dudes for king and a turtle for some better saves and then have a high tide punch. I think they maybe more viable with the points changes but time will tell.

Talking escort wing my list currently has gone down 130 and they have said that thunderers and sky wardens are also going down (haven’t seen leaked points on those though) so min will be another 50 points so should mean I can probably fit in 10 more thunderers as I was bit under already. doesnt sound like much but it will definitely make a difference. Especially as the list doesn’t play to table by just to cripple opponents major hitters then play objectives. I think to fix boats make them a flat 5 damage for cannons only 1.5 more than the average on the d6 but gets away from the times you roll super low and overall brings their damage output up without it being outrageous and makes them great small hero snipers.