Tropical Ghost General

It looks pretty decent but I wonder if it's worth taking the blades and their battalion when grims are just as good. Yes it's less drops but it means that you have really limited hero support and we don't do well without heroes, only a few units do and one of them is grims. By the way I love grims ?. Your 100% right though, there hasn't been any lists along these lines that I've seen, it's a step in the right direction.

I have a list with 90 grims and 30 blades in it, just waiting for several paydays ?. You are right on the lack of power lists, I suppose we are all too excited by all the choices available. I imagine it will settle down eventually or we'll continue making super thematic armies that lack any real punch ?. Also the fact that none of the ghost endless spells are support ones, they are all predatory and not great predatory ones either, never mind, I'll just have to bring the sun and the jaws and gravetide to get my bravery bombing done.

I think they missed a trick not making blades or harridans 2 wounds. I also agree about the ethereal save being over priced/expectations of game designers. There is so much stuff in the game that either causes no rend or ignores rend -1 or -2. This means that our super special ability isn't actually that special or unique. I will admit at times it is useful but it's not OMG Totes Amazeballs. I personally believe that what they could have given the ghosts as a super special ability is being immune to battleshock and bravery tests. We are meant to be pure horror, the ultimate spooky terror, yet we are super limited with ways of bravery bombing without taking allies. Currently it's only really Destruction that our bravery attacks are good against and that may change when they get newer battletomes. Also not running to battleshock would make our lack of healing/regen abilities balanced out, when compared to LoN or FEC our summoning/healing it utter garbage.

@Vasshpit I want to hear how the triple mourngul list goes, sounds hilarious.

For those interested in tournament results, these are the placings from Facehammer GT this weekend. 33rd, 65th, 77th and 88th out of 88. ? I have said before and will keep saying it, that once our opponent's know our army's tricks that we are a mid-tier army and the results from recent tournaments are proving this, but I've had other ghost players in other forums/online groups saying that this is just negative thinking, but the results coming out are prove of this, it's not negative thinking, it's straight up fact. I am still 100% committed to my bedsheets, but I hold no illusions that they'll be a hitting the top table again anytime soon, especially on a regular basis. ? Top spots at Facehammer from 1st to 10th, were Daughters of Khaine Destruction Slyvaneth Blades of Khorne Phoenix Temple Legion of Blood Bonesplitterz Stormcast Eternals Daughters of Khaine Legion of Sacrament I don't know what the various lists were yet, will post them if I find them. In other tournament news I came 10th out of 12 in a local 1k tournament a few weekends ago, but that's definitely more from bad play than anything else ?.

@dmorley21 So I've done some digging around and the rule book states that battalions can be deployed as single units or small groups or all together. Using the previous death stalkers example, there are 5 units in total. 3 units get deployed on the table, 2 get deployed in the underworld. So they all get deployed at the same time and count as a single drop, but for determining whether 50% is on the table for the underworld ability, then you go by actual units, and in the death stalkers example it fulfills the requirements. If I tried to deploy 3 or more units in the underworld and then the rest on the table, then I would need to have put enough units from outside the battalion to fulfill the underworld requirements.

So what is the group's concensus with deployment of battalions using the underworld ability. I know that battalions can be either deployed as one big group, or as smaller groups or as single units. But what if we choose to set up a battalion with half the units in the underworld and half the units on the board. Can we do it as a single drop? For example, taking death stalkers battalion, I choose to set up the cairn wraith and two units of glaivewraiths on the board and the two units of grims in the underworld. Can this all be done as a single drop? Or does it require two drops, one for cairn and glaive wraiths and one for the grims?

@Neck-Romantic got it. I've had a look through when the ghost book was released and there isn't anything that gives minus bravery. One artefact gives bonus to bravery. If you want to bravery bomb with ghosts you need to either ally in Soulblight blood knights and use their banner or use endless spells that cause minus bravery (jaws, sun, etc...)

What's this planar stuff?

I agree @TheWolfLord I won't be building an army around them. But it's good to get ideas on how to revive them, especially when your battletome is at home and you're stuck at work ?

Good spot. Hadn't noticed that. Can torment and RoTS still work?

@Neck-Romantic if you used the vortex spell and shackles as a combo then it would work on the modified movement. So cast shackles on an 8" unit. Movement is reduced to 4". Then cast the vortex spell, movement is currently 50% of 8", so it then becomes 50% of that 50%, making the movement 2". Now (I may be wrong on this so happy to be corrected) if the target unit has any bonuses to their movement such as plus 2" or plus 5", then that gets added after the effects of the spell(s). So if an 8" movement unit using cogs was effected by vortex and shackles, they would have a 2" base move +2" from cogs.

Probably not. As it states movement characteristics, not movement. If it did then it would be a bit too good/OP. It would effect how far they run though as it's D6 + movement characteristic, so with the spell it would be D6 + 1/2 movement characteristic.

I know. WTF. Someone was having a bad day when that decision was made, possibly by someone who just had their ass handed to them by a LoN player and they wanted to spite them by making them unusable ?.

Her scream attack isn't based on bravery, which considering so much has high bravery, this new scream is consistent and the -3 rend means that you can bypass so much, including bloody bastiliodons. If you add a VL you can get an extra attack as well. I won't as I'm a purest and don't take allies ?. Her spell is situational but we are a fast army. If you think of armies like Khorne, taking 2"-3" off them is really useful as it's all units in a 12" bubble that can be effected. If you target it at supporting characters it will slow down that entire castle, as the core units will need to slow down to let the hero keep pace. And as someone else mentioned it will stack with shackles, so halve your 5"-6" move, then halve it again ?. The 3" range on her melee weapon means that she can keep out of harms way while attacking, being screened by the rasps. And the -2 rend and D3 damage means that she can be taking out smaller heroes relatively easily, especially when combined with her shooting attack. The unit is so small that there is no point bringing along other heroes to buff them up. They might benefit tagging along with a small 10 unit of rasps to add as additional screening or if you want extra longevity have them tag along with a big unit of rasps and a torment and/or GoS. For the points costs they are a decent choice because they fulfill a really good role of being able to consistently clear units off objectives or by taking out smaller supporting heroes with ease, and doing that while slowing down your opponent. You can even use them as a sacrifice unit to take your opponent's big nasty gribbly down a few rungs on their degrading chart on their warscroll, as there isn't much that can ignore -3 and -2 rend, and taking 3-6 wounds off big nasties can make a big difference to games.

Coven Throne is an ally, so it won't benefit from any of the ghosts allegiance abilities. You are better going for the BC instead. The SC malignant set isn't nighthaunt. They have older nighthaunt models in, but they also have the coven throne/mortis engine in, which isn't, for whatever reason geedubs decided to not make it part of our clan. If you pick up the LoN book, they you can mix and match almost anything into your lists. DoK if played right will be a pain, They can get in fast and hit hard and can shoot well and will normally be rolling to hurt you with soooooooo many dice as well. Use our fly keyword to help outmanoeuvre them. Mortal wound causing stuff will be your friend against Morathi, use Reik to wound himself to get +3 to casting, then cast his own spell at her. She can only take 3 wounds max per turn, but any wounds she takes in small form effects her total when in big form, so if you can hit her early then she isn't going to be as scary, well, she will still be scary, just a bit less scary. Don't bother going overkill on her and use cheap fodder to screen against her. She is only 6" move in small form, and most of out stuff is 8". If you are lucky and can get 3 wounds on her small form, then she'll only have 6 wounds in her big form, and she has a table of degrading, so if you get in quick, she'll never be at full power, and she might only be on the table for 3 rounds not 4. But she's nearly 500pts, it's a big points investment. I have always struggled against DoK with ghosts but haven't had a chance to play them in AoS 2.0 (yet). Good luck and let us know how you get on. The BC needs to hold back until it is at level 4/5 really, until then it's so hit and miss. Try playing it a bit less aggressively just to start off with, use it as bait or something if need be, but whatever you decide, it's not the sort of unit that can go toe-to-toe with anything else with the behemoth keyword unfortunately. Run some hexwraiths with it, around 10-15, and have it sit on a back field objective if need be. Currently it's greatest strength is it's unknown factor from other players, no one is quite sure if it's any good, so they see this big model and assume it's dangerous and make it a target, it's basically a brilliant distraction carnifex.

Looks good but agree with previous comment, change the command ability to give deathrattle unit +1 attack or ignore all minus to hit modifers for attacks they make or something that can be useful and warrant actually using it.

Sorry that's how I personally refer to the Underworld ability, should have not abrivated it ?. I played a lot of mega drive (or genesis if you are US based) as a kid (and as a grown up), and one game, Altered Beast, always started with a creepy (16 bit) voice saying "Rise from your grave", and I always forget what the proper wording of the ability is so I always refer to it as "Rise From The Grave" rather than the proper version of "From The Underworlds They Come".

If you are taking glaivewraiths then take the death stalkers battalion. Otherwise they don't pack enough punch to run outside of the battalion. They are really useful at holding/screening back table objectives, also at being those units on the board to then let other units RFTG. But if you are going to use them as a 3rd line rank of attack they still need to be able to make the charge and their slower movement doesn't help. Personally I find that chainghasts are a better option to back up chainrasps, as they have more damage potential with the added shooting attacks, the same movement and melee range, potentially more attacks, have some rend and can add "a link to the chain".

That's some jinky movement tricks going on there, to get 15 horses to all jump over the same couple of dudes is pretty sneaky tactics. ? I do think that the anniversary GoS spell combined with hexwraiths makes them interestingly good, as is will allow them to fall out of combat up to 18" and still charge the same turn. Preach it brother ? , ain't that the truth. So how many do you find work as the optimal unit size. I have never run more than 10 and they get targeted and minced in the games that I bring them. Do I need to pump up those rookie numbers then?

It depends massively on your play style. Gravetide is OK, but for me if I use Reik and get the jaws off, it then requires a natural 9 to dispel, which isn't easy, the jaws gives more damage potential and has the psychological fear factor on your opponent and both the jaws and gravetide give the minus to bravery, so you could combine them to bravery bomb. I am always a bit sceptical on mathhammer. Yes it is useful, but the dice gods really have not care for stats ?. I think if you are using either blades or harridans without any buffs, then you aren't utilising them properly. They are both expensive and flimsy choices, so they need the support to justify their points cost. Also if you aren't charging blades, again, you aren't using them properly. Also the blades battalion, using a KoSos with the pendant artefact, gives them an 11" move, with 4+, 5++ save, with the options for 2 extra attacks if they charge, that battalion is just too good not to use, when compared to the points tax that we have with the others we have access to. In my opinion the banshee battalion just doesn't quite offer the same synergy. I do think that the ideal pairings for harridans is still being tweaked and worked on by someone somewhere, and someone will crack it and they will then see a lot of play on the table. I also think the models look great as well. @dmorley21Do you think a tomb banshee is a better choice over chainghasts? They have the same wounds total, but the damage potential and shooting attacks of the chainghasts seem to be much better as well. Also pair them up with blades and you have a cheap option for the re-rolls as well for them, as the blades are the only unit that don't need to torment to link the chain in order to benefit from the chainghasts. It also frees up a hero slot as well.

So question to everyone. Looking at the current previews for the new Beasts of Chaos battletome, what are people worried about with this revamped faction? For me the ability to make up your own battalion from chosen units and then being able to pick the buffs seems pretty scary, as it could lead to some really frustrating match ups. Also, the marks of chaos and summoning looks like it could be brutal. They also seem to be able to heal and deepstrike as well, which is pretty gross alongside everything else, and makes me wonder if they are basically going to make those things more of a generic set of abilities for a a lot more factions going forward.

@Espy85 I had forgot about using endless spells to bravery bomb. The jaws would be a better option than the purple sun, as it's a cheaper and more consistent.

I'm inclined to disagree. It's only useful against other horde armies and the points tax in units that you have to take, doesn't make it worth the pay off, as tomb banshees are just bad ? and myrmourns are so squishy that in units of less than 12 they aren't really worth taking. I agree that harridans have some merit but when you have to squeeze as much potential from the points available, blades will win hands down everytime ?. I am toying with running some harridans with a torment, GoS and a mourngul, let the mourngul give -1 to hit, the banshees potentially make it -2 to hit. Then the torment and GoS is giving re-rolls and +1 to wound. Would make for an expensive but agrivating castle to work your way through.

Thanks @Vasshpit I try and spread my miserable vibes wherever possible ? So hexwraiths aren't super bad, they have -1 rend, they hit and wound alright, and they are multi wound models, which we lack as an army, (I really think that harridans and blades should be 2 wounds and go up a bit in price to justify the extra longevity), but the hexwraiths are expensive for what they do. They do have the benefit of getting some hero support now, as in AoS 1.0 they were too fast moving for the heroes to keep up. Their special Spectral hunters ability (that makes them expensive) is so situational and can be easily countered with how your opponent places their models, to prevent having the room required to do the move to cause the model wound. It's also a 5+ for each hexwraith rather than a 5+ each model they pass over, which would be a much better version of the ability. They don't get any bonuses to charging either, which is a shame as they can benefit from the special GoS spell to move out of combat and use Spectral hunter, then charge and use it again. If they took a slight point drop or their hunter ability was changed to models crossed then they would be definitely be a consideration to take, but just like with a lot of our other units, points to damage output is just not there. I think harridans are good but the Shriek ability only being bravery 6 is pointless. There is very few chances to bravery bomb really well in pure ghosts, but in LoN using Legion of Blood and taking the harridans as allies they can then be really effective. There is a few other ghost powers that rely on your opponent's bravery to be effective, but so much stuff now is bravery 7 or more, which makes there ability pretty redundant most of the time. They are a really good unit at clearing chaff, but then grims can do the same job and do it better. I do think that they have some merit but we don't have any bravery bombing spells. If you take them in a LoN LoB list, then paired with some black knights, a terrorgheist and a wizard to cast overwhelming dread and you get a -3, potentially a -4 to the bravery. That means that the harridans can potentially effect bravery 10 models and the terrorgheist can do it's death Shriek more effectively as well. But we just can't make those sort out combos with bravery bashing work, which is what the harridans could really do with. The only thing with underworlding your heroes is that their buffs and abilities aren't being used when they aren't on the table. If they aren't using their buffs then why are they in the army, it's a waste of points. Underworlding or 'rising from the grave' definitely is useful but it's like deep striking in 40k, it's easy to screen against and it forces you to take Cogs to help guarantee those charges are successful.