Beliman

Good catch!

Thx for the input @JReynolds I'm not sure that the post-apocalyptic theme from 1.0 was fleshed out enough for all consumers. Same with 2.0 "grimdark". One army or a few books can't make the setting feel grimdark or post-apocalyptic. It's the whole game that needs to follow one theme (even if some armies are on the edge of that theme). I don't know, but as a KO player (and KO reader), the game is more about fantasy/sci-fi adventures from the 60s than anything else.

If it follows the same pattern as HH1.0, you are the one that will chose if going traitor or loyalist. I'm curious if you can still build a Legio Cybernetica or Ordo Reductus armies instead the classic Taghmata army.

Lord Commanders are "our" Primarchs #changemymind

@novakai Edit: I didn't understand your post, sorry! Yes, completely! But there isn't any discount for units, just only for some equipments! Btw, the main thing that will make your army really expensive (points wise) are the units that you want to use and/or their upgrades.An army using the Armoured Spearhead (doesn't matter what Legion you play) will have 4 or 5 tanks that cost 180-250p each (and 100-150€ btw...) as your basic transport. Anotehr example is that your special troops can be really expensive with one box of weapons (200-250p to 400-450p). Old answer: But remember that you still have Pride of the Legion (subfaction that can be taken by all legions) that allows to build an elite army (Veterans instead of tactical squads). Some Legions are going tobe a bit better than others (eg.: -1 to STR when you are hit means a lot more when your basic troop are hardened veterans. White Scars can still give to all your troops the Outlfank rule (ambush), imagine something like Lurid Haze but for all your units than can score. Not as competitive as other Legions (maybe) but you can still surprise your enemy when your Veterans come from behind enemy lines with rerolls to Hit and bonus to charge.

Of course you are limited. but not as you think. Everyone can play with Pride of the Legion and full veterans instead of basic troops (note: they are really powerful in this edition), but what about when you chose a legion (factions)? just a few examples: A Sons of Horus Army can still use Long March (Rite of War) to ambush with their Terminators and a bonus to movement for all other troops. Night Lords can use the Terror Tactics to play the first two turns as Night Fighting and all Sargeants gain Fear for an army that wants to cause a lot of Fear checks. Decapitation Strike (Ravenguard) gives you a juicy objective in killing the enemy warlord: Slay the warlord give you +2VP and all your troops have shrouded and rerolls to kill Heroes. I can keep going, but what I'm saying is that with the same box, you can still have diferent gameplays. You will have to chose what kidn of strategy are you going to use because the rules change your units behaviour. Btw, a box of 20 weapons or a few vehicles will drastically change your gameplay. Completely agree. The main cost for a 2000 AoS army is around 450-500€ (a bit more for some armies, a bit less for others). For war40k it's around 600 to 700€. I'm curious to see how much it cost for HH to build a 2000-3000 army with all this new plastic kits. Yes. You have 20 Heavy weapons to build 2/ 4 diferent type of troops or 40 special weapons to build 4/ 8 diferent units. Or combine this weapons with diferent type of units if that's your thing. Don't get me wrong, it's still really expensive.

New update for League of Votann: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/06/lore-of-the-votann-introducing-the-ironkin-mechanical-members-of-the-leagues/ Robots/Ironmen2.0!!!

Not sure about that. I still remember the "2.5 edition" label. Some armies couldn't kill a megagargant in less than two turns (the game ended in the first turn). There was some tournaments that used house rules (or banned units or even armies) because it was a crazy. And I'm talking about 70+ player tournaments... 2.0 had a lot of good things, but something weird happened between 2020 and 2021 that made the game worst.

Imo, the Age of Darkness box is a cheap option compared to the old HH kits. Of course it's expensive (crazy expensive), but we come from an era that only 3D prints, limited boxes or recasts could build an army. The new box is seen as an oportunity to play a good game. HH background is awesome, characters are charismatic and some of them have rules and models, core and faction rules are simplified from HH1.0 but still have alot of flavour and quality (even if there are some things that I don't like, I can see the work behind this rules and it makes sense in this type of games). I can understand all dislikes of Marines vs Marines, but if you give a chance to see what is behind all this marines, the game has a lot going on and the Lore is good enough for a wargame. Btw, HH main problem is their small community. It's still a niche game for the majority of wargamers. Time will tell if this second edition can turn around this issue.

Skirmish/Wargames can still have mindblowing events. I will give you an example: Malifaux already killed some of their Masters, others changed factions and a new Grand Faction was created some years ago. To understand what I'm saying: Teclis, Malerion, etc... were killed (can still be played with "legends"), Morathi moved to Chaos and a new "Grand Alliance: Shadow Society" was build from scratch, with double-keyword Factions that can be played as part of other Grand Alliance or part of the "Shadow Society".

It seems that I'm the Black Sheep of this forum, but I just love the KOs Lore. I must say that our backstory still has some holes, but our current stories are awesome!! We just ended the second conference of Madralta, we fought side by side with our allies and we even see Grombrindal in action! We have our Pirate Nation (Bark Mhornar), our classic nemesis (Skavens/Grotbag Skuttlers/Tzeentch), classic stories (find the Lost Barak, raid a temple/City, etc...) and our Soulbound hooks are awesome (our Path of Glory is not bad btw). Imho, KOs only miss two things: Second wave of models (and that is not a Lore issue) More named characters (coff-coff Drekki Flynt) I'm not going to lie, I hope to see more about civilizations growing enough to confront and even kill gods than just Gods playing 4D chess. Btw, so sad that Josh Reynolds don't write for Black Library anymore, his books were really fun to read and understand the world (realms?).

Disagree

Let's goooo!!! Hope to see more AoS games!

Yes, maybe the HH example is a bit more edgy than I thought. But let's look at Conquest: Last Argument of the Kings. Spires is a faction of some kind of space-elfs with necromantic powers: You can try to win fights with mindless hordes, overwhelming the enemy and ressurecting your own dudes. Classic Necromancer stuff. Or use that mindless zombies to "decay" the enemy, like a disease. Killing themself and the enemy units in the process, but remember that you can return models, unlike your opponent. That fits Nurgle! Or maybe a more traditional army with archers and your basic "zombies" completely cooperating, looking for flanks or buffs at the right time. Maneuvers, Heroes yelling orders, activating up to 3 units at the same time, etc... Or maybe powerful Heroes (imagine old Vampire Counts) inside blobs of wounds, removing entire ranks with each swing of their sword. All this "types" of gameplay are from the same faction and the same 3 units. Heroes and abilities can completely change how your units behave. Take in mind that Conquest only has One roll to attack (hit and wound merged in to "Clash") and one roll to Save! That's without taking in consideration any "bravery checks" (this units are not perfectly suited to play like that, so I ignored that strategy even if it can work). AoS has a lot more going on, but it seems a lot less when you play it.

I'm 100% with @Enoby I don't know the word to express myself, but I'm a bit "bored" (?) with AoS rules. Don't get me wrong, some of them are awesome and some mechanics are really good and straightforward, but others are just odd, without soul. I don't know when, why or how it happened, but that's my reality with AoS. I want to like all of it, but every time I play another game, I see that there is something missing in the rules. To give an example, I'm looking for HH 2.0 and even if I don't like some of their rules, I can see the work behind: I'm a hugh fan of Night Lords, and they are really good with Fear. -1 Bravery means A LOT when you have a lot of tools to force Bravery checks. Like shooting with a pinning weapon, that can make a unit unavailable to do some actions. That turns in to an strategy itself because you don't need dmg output. Move characteristic of 12 has a +2 bonus on charge. But a 13"M has a +3 bonus on the charge. Just a simple +1 Move means A LOT and White Scars (faction) gives exactly that! BOOM, +1 to move has become a faction trait. Emperor's Children don't need to "kill" other units, just "win" combat. You lose the combat if you lose more wounds than the enemy unit, but EC abilities can turn them in to good duelists. Forcing enemy units to hit them on 5+ or even on 6+ and then winning combat with their Vexilla (banners) and Living Icons (ability) without even scoring any wound to the enemy. There are not Mortal Wounds on the Heresy, but there is something called Instant Death. If a wound was caused by a weapon with double Strength than defending unit's Resistance, the model dies. You get the point, +1 to Resistance means a lot more when your average R 4 captain is hit by a Strength 8 powerfist. Your basic Hero could block that hit if it has R 5 (and yes, Sons of Horus Battletrait is exactly that). That's just an example of another GW game that probably everyone in this forum will understand, because it uses a lot of rules from older editions. I'm not saying that we need tables, confronted characteristics, Armor Penetration (instead of Rend) or anything like that. The whole concept that I'm trying to explain is that AoS seems to be limited in how can you achieve your objectives. I feel that I'm stuck with basic dmg output ("mega-gargant" check) and I need to know which enemy unit must die earlier. Everything else is about who can take objectives without losing too much in the process.

Imo, horrible profile. They remind me about Fulminators and that's a bad omen.

Only for 30k and using a specific Rite of War (Pride of Legion with only MSU Veterans). With a weapon upgrade box and maybe 1 legion unit, the box is going to be around 2500-3000 points Sorry to say but I don't know about 40k. I will start playing with the League of Votann /sadface.

225€ for the new Horus Heresy Box. I'm happy about the price. Note: You can have a up to 2500 points with just that box. Take some weapons upgrades, maybe a pair of Rhinos/Dropods and you will have a really good "generic" Legion to play.

Let them know that we are coming!!!

Really good changes!!! I would be really happy if that leak becomes true. Note: Big wall of text incoming Now, on the "balance" updated, I'm going to admit that I don't give a lot of weight to the competitive scene (even if I followed the AOS World Championship this last week). My main issue with AoS rules are some Battletome/Warscrolls that have some weird interactions with the Core Rules. Another point is why this rules need to be like that, instead of a more simple and elegant rules that are still is lore-friendly enough to make an army play as it should. I will talk about my army because is the one that I know the most: Kharadrons Overlords. Kharadrons Overlords are just [base stats]+[rerolls] and only has a few "tricks" (mechanics?) to make them diferent from other armies. Let's see what tricks we have: Ranged attacks: Everything shoots. Not complicated (it's just that the game is really meh with shooting mechanics overall, not just KOs). Rend was their "defining" characteristic (still can be done with Powered Aether-amunition, but imho, that's a bandaid). Aethergold: Just +1 to wounds once per phase at the cost of -1 permanent bravery: 0 conflicts with the main rules and Imho, a bit meh lore-wise (they don't have a better "charge" because they spend Aethergold! wtf!). Broken Realms gave us more toys with new effects that doesn't contradict any rule, fluffy. Voidstone Orb: 1 use auto-spell. Really good artifact with a bit NPE in it. Maybe it does not contradict any other rule, but doesn't let the other player "play" their game for one use. I can see some arguments about this item being a bit "not fun" but there are some good arguments because we are an army without any Priest, Monster and/or Wizzards. Spell in the Bottle: RED ALERT. Take any Endless Spell and auto-summon it. You get it, it's something really fun but with a lot going on that I'm not sure if it needs to stay in the game. Btw, I love this item but the wombo-combos with it shouldn't exist, and speaking about them... Fly High (and Disembark): It's a Teleports, with garrisons (Cover+Garrison rules+Look Out Sir!), leave Garrison (at the end of the turn or maybe before moving the Ship...still waiting for FAQs), Disengage (modified retreat waiting for FAQs too), etc... buff, that's a lot! Let's be honest, Fly High is a crazy rule. It was the defining KO trait that was wombo-combo'ed for about half an edition (with Spell in the Bottle for major nuclear bombs). Maybe it doesn't contradict any rule because it's a set-up (it contradicts at least two btw, but that's another story) but doesn't matter, it's an horrible mechanic because an entire army Flying High again, and again, and again (even if it doesn't win a lot) is not a good mechanic for anyone. To move to other mechanics (don't care wich army they are from), shooting without LOS, reduce an entire enemy army characteristic (maybe Rend, maybe Damage, maybe hit, ...), packing a lot fo power on one unit (one man drake army), ignoring set-up mechanics or movement in the oponents pile-in phase are not good mechanics unless they are tweaked low enough to not be their defining mechanic to win games.

An Artist working for GW just removed a few of his concepts/illustrations. There is a rumor around that one of them had a ghoul with a crown and cape, or something like that.

I see KOs, I buy KOs. Simple life

Grundstock Logisticator!!!

Really happy to see more Wanderers in action!

If you are in to Horus Heresy gaming, I suggest to wait until this new edition (june maybe?). With that big Box and maybe a few weapon packs (or Special units), you already have enough to play Zone Mortalis games and close to 2000 points (depending on your units loadouts). I'm really curious to see what Horus Heresy will become. It seems that a simple +1 to move buff can make a unit become something really diferent, and giving all this weight to Basic Stats is something that I really miss.