Beliman

No problem! It's not about attacking one system, because 2 out of the 3 exploits are a lot easier to be abused in IGYG than AA systems. I just pointed out that every game developer needs to know the main issues that a system has, and write their game accordingly. My Problems/Solutions list is based on other games that their developers saw this possible outcomes and what they did to try to mitigate this issues. Call it solution or call it a polished mechanic that can manage some of this exploits.

Yes! Exactly that! Morathi is a good example: If you want to shoot two times with the snake-ladies, you need first to activate snakes, use one of their actions to shoot, then the enemy can counter-shoot you in their activation, then activate Morathi and spend one of their actions for the snake-ladies to shoot again. That's a lot going on, actions are resources, activation priority is like a mini-game, combos are still there, but the enemy can interact without feeling bad. Not sure what do you mean. Can you elavorate a bit?

Maybe I'm wrong, but @NinthMusketeer list is not an exploit, but a feature. The main problem is when the game is not build with all of this in mind: Imho, that's a good (and fair) strategy. Elite units need to do a lot of work to confront early "chaff" activations. Going first with high quality units is another strategy, focusing big units that are not even activated and removing them before they are activated (AA "Alpha"). Problem: Of course, if the game was not build with that in mind, it will be teddious and one sided, unless both armies are going to take a bunch of units just to stop this tactics. Solution: Activation tokens, Chain-activations, more actions per phase for elite units, etc... there are a lot of solutions. That's is a classic a IGYG problem. 40% of your points in one model that can be killed without being even played, or worst, this unit can end the game on turn 2. I don't like this kind of designs, and I don't think it's healthy for any game. Problem: It's a big problem, you destroy an entire army, or you lose 40% of your points in one go. Doesn't matter if you play IGYG or AA, it will never be a good experience for any player. Solution: This isn't an easy fix. High points, giving them more activations or tokens to make them relevant, no spread-damage, etc... are a good start. A good example could be Conquest. Their big dudes are not going to die until turn 3 (and it's really hard to kill them in the same turn that they arrive, so more about turn 4 or 5), and will never kill half an army in the first turn (because they are not going to be in the table). IGYG with double-turn has a worst experience with this mechanic. I would say that AA have an edge because you can activate another ranged unit to return fire, or activate faster dudes to zone the enemy and have more space to do whatever you want in (shooting usually is an action, so in games like Conquest, you can't TP+shoot as easy as IGYG because you are limited) Problem and Solution: It's more about the game than the system. Having one unit shoot one of your units is not the same as having 4 units and an artillery deleting 5 of your units. But still, it can happen and it's all about the developers of the game.

[Offtopic] Take in mind that it's a core mechanic that all armies, units, points, abilities and the whole balance of the game are build around it. Look at it as a feature. For anyone that don't know, Conquest games start with no units on the table, and each turn, your active unit need to rolls a dice and see if it can enter the battlefield. Not all units can enter at the same time, some units are "light" and can enter in early turns (1-3), others are "meddium" and can only enter in the mid turns (2-4) and last ones are "heavy" and can only enter in the last turns of the game (3-5). That mechanic is linked with the set-up too,, your units can only enter from your side of the map, but if your units advance and secure a part of the table, you will unlock more zones to enter. But the best thing is that all armies are build around this mechanic, even the feeling of their gameplay reflects that. Just to name a few example: Dweghoms (dwarfs) are slow, so they only have a few but really strong "Light" units, more as a necessity of the army. Like burning berzerks, that can chop-chop any other "light regiment" or Crossbross that can secure an area from a ranged position. Both are expensive, but that's the whole point of playing Dwarfs.Take in mind that their medium and heavy units are really scary, but slow. Hundred Kingdoms (humans) are experts in everything. You have everything in each phase: light ambushes, archers, melee units, defensive units, etc... to secure the battlefield earlier in the game, and look for turn 2-3 for "meddium units" for that definitive charge (aka, CAVALRY!!!) or if you want to go elite, for a lategame push (turn 4-5) with units like HEAVY CAVALRY! That's their whole point, they have everything (appart from big scary monsters) to play, and it's up to you to know were to put the points. Cavalry is scary because they have enough movement that a bad early game doens't mean a lot to them. Nords (my favorite army until Cities) are fast, and that means that they want to run for the enemy, even if the enemy is not on the table. Abilities that treat your Meddium units as Light units, abilitites that stop enemy medium units to enter the battlefield, or units that can outflank (cheat their roll to enter the battlefield) are their bread and butter. They need to take objectives earlier, cleave ligth enemies in two and crossfigners to survive midd game until their big monsters enter play to end the slaughter. As you can see, don't expect to Dweghoms to make an "alpha strike", but their units are scary. If you play agaisnt them don't expect to win with just brute force, they are elite and their hammer units will probably arrive in turn 3+. Nords can't take a hit, their medium units die as fast as their light units. So play with that in mind, raid as fast as you can before enemy units can counter-charge your punch, take objectives and cut enemies advance before turn 3-4 to secure a lead and stop them to enter the battlefield srom any strategic position. Even if the enemy can stop your early push, you still have monsters that are going to enter the battlefield before the opponents big hiters!

Next week are going to show abilities for Warcry warbands. Good timing if next saturday is preorder date! I still have hope for Drekki, it would be perfect timing because I need a new book to read (I finished 4th book of Malus Darkblade two days ago, I need to return to the mortal realms!). Btw, Total War Warhammer has an alpha/beta test going on for new Immortal Empires (only for streamers it seems), and it looks really good. Archaon is not riding a pony anymore!

I think that we are talking about diferent things here. I'm not saying that AoS can be tweaked to be a AA game. If you are working on a game, and you don't have anything written, you probably will start with a brainstorming of what you want to accomplish. I'm not talking about To Hit and To Wound rolls and anything like that, I'm talking about the list form my previous post. All this points are perfectly suited for an AA, but instead, GW worked on IGYG (nothing wrong with that btw). That's why is not that easy to turn AoS in to an AA game, because everything needs to be rewriten. That's what I'm trying to say. Counter-argument, Malifaux only has two "rolls" (flip a card) for attack and defense with a lot less units on the table. 2-3hours for a game, exactly the same as AoS. It's not that easy to create a game from scratch, and as you said, AoS was made as an IGYG and that's the main mechanics that we need to deal with.

Agree, AA is just diferent. But in my case, I'm not looking to AA from far away because I'm just playing some AA games (Asoaif, Conquest, Warcry and Malifaux) andit feels perfect for AoS. Everything that AoS is build on seems to scream AA: Mid range of units on the game (4-15 units). Wants to be dinamic with commands, abilities, endless spells, etc... on enemy phase Wants to be cinematic with big monsters, overbuffed Terminator-like units, Gods, Heroes, etc... (1-6 Heroes compared to 0-4 Artillery, that means what AoS wants to do). Dinamic Victory Points: Battleplans with effects every turn (or two turns) and tactics for each turn Small tables, high movement, small handicaps for ranged units, mid terrain features (8), etc... Double-turn I know that I'm a bit biased, but the main features of AoS screams AA. And AA games are not that longe, Malifaux games can be longer than AoS with less minaitures, but Asoiaf and Conquest are shorter to play than AoS with same miniatures.... it's all about the complexity behind rules and how deep the designers want to go. That's the problem, it's not easy. You need to create a new game, and that's why some designers are in high demand for this companies.

Age of Sigmar: Storm Ground last update was from december 2021. It seems taht both games follow the same route...

That's a mix of Actions and full Activation in each phase. It's a bit stange compared to all other wargames that I play, but could be really fun to play! Me too! It's my favorite game (GG3.0, let's gooo)! There are a lot of other mechanics that can help armies with an uneven number of units: Activation Tokens (aka Malifaux). Ths mechanic is awesome because you can go expand it with abilities that spend Activation Tokens (e.g: elite army with small number of units that maybe could have an ability to spend Activation Tokens to do something to counter free Activations from other armies). Reactions or Out-of-Order actions (aka Horus Heresy Reactions): You can still react to enemy units if you don't have any available unit to be activated (once per unit maybe?). Actions outside the battlefield (aka, Asoiaf): Actions that are not linked to any model on the battlefield. I don't know how AoS can do something like that, but I suppose moving the Bad Moon, Fyreslayers Runes, Idoneth Tides, etc... could be a good start. Tweak points and make it a feature of the game. A lot of (weak) number of units vs small (strong) number of units.

Not sure if I like an AA that each unit must pass over all phases again and again. I prefer the One page rules were every unit has Actions (maybe not as restriced as one page rule) with, I don't know, 2 actions for units, 3 actions for Heroes or something like that. Casting, running, moving, charging, Commands, etc... all can become Actions. It's a lot of work, but I think it's a bit better than other options.

Btw, after GW reveals a new model/miniature in an event, it usually means that it will be released in less than 3 months or so. Let's see if Drekki is released before august /fingerscrossed!!

Done!!! (not me) Edit: It's called "GW NEWS: NEW SNAKEMAN MODEL FOR BLOOD BOWL" instead of "KURESH DLC". Still the same post!

Snakeman? Maybe from kurseh? Omggg

Only GW knows. In 2.0, it was clear (with even a FAQ) that "Instead of normal move" was something completely diferent than a normal move (or a retreat, in this case), but 3.0 started with a new FAQs that changed some of thsi abilities. I suggest to talk to your opponent/TO before the game and make it clear how are you going to uset his abilities

A Soulbound'ed Warband with classic Fantasy archetypes! A rogue (DoK assassin), priest/wizard (Skink starsomething), paladin (SCE), berzerker/barbarian (Vulkite), Witch-hunter (Order of Azyr), etc...

AoS had a weird 3.0 edition launch. Two armies and a big hole until Sylvaneth (appart from a few books and 2 heroes). That's really meh if we take in mind that's an entire year 3.0 releases

Wow, that's evil. It should be illegal to just think about it XD

I need some Kharadron leaks... anything will be well recieved... believe me... just... something... plis!

Wow, it looks awesome!!

I must disagree about the rules. Imho, FW seems to writte better rules overall. After 3 AoS editions, we usually see some "broken" interactions and people point out what crazy stuff are in the books in the first few weeks or even before the books are out. Horus heresy seems to be doing fine, a few things are a bit meh (mainly double tap with Auspex+Reaction and boring battleplans) , but this are not just bad rules or broken interactions, it's more about knowing what you are doing (don't DR near things with Auspex, they can shoot two or even three times before you can react...). Btw, I'm only talking about nu-Forgeworld (Andy Hoare era). And HH box has a nice price tag, it's not as good as some SC or Dominion, but still good value.

Yeah, completely agree. They need the will to do it, and I'm not sure that they want. I'm not a fan of moving Brutes to 40k, it's the same setting afterall, it follows the same rules: Brutes in HH are basic/generic Daemons because the humanity didn't have enough knowledge of Chaos powers to understand their form, so their elite units appear as Brutes in to the eyes of the Imperium, unless the Daemon itself had enough will to manifest with their most accurate true form, but that's exclusive to a Greater Daemons. In 40k, it's easy for daemons to enter reality with a more accurate manifestation. It would be a bit weird (from a Lore PoV) to see brutes with the same miniatures in 40k.

There is a KO FAQ that says something diferent: Take in mind that a Fly High is a set-up ability with the option to make a disengage: And a Disengage is a buff to our Retreat moves: Conclusion: Kharadron Ships can Fly High out even if they start near 3" of the enemy and still shoot later because we have a rule that allows that (disengage). Imho, a set-up that has "instead of a normal move or retreat" in it's description follows the same restrictions of a normal move or retreat unless the ability says another thing (e.g: Set-up 9" away from enemies). They missed this in the las KO FAQ, let's hope to see this in a new one, maybe in a year... Btw, that has nothing to do with Walk the Hidden Path because it happens at the end of the movement phase and it's not "instead of...".

Brutes are easier to writte for AoS than HH, because they were not undivided nor had a mark (they had a "discipline", "reign", and a lot of "traits").

That would be really awesome. First "undivided" daemons in AoS?

GW can give Warmachine to some Artillery units too (Ballistas, Killabows, etc...), and just with that it covers all armies just using allies/coalition units.