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This thread is dedicated to HEROIC PLAY, a short form style game mode of fast paced combat in AOS skirmish. These rules allow for tighter narratives across 2-3 battles, inspired by clash of wills, my favorite game mode in the general's handbook. In this expansion, i've made some additions to the rules that allow some pretty interesting gameplay options. Featured is the Destined encounter, a new battleplan that is randomly generated each time, meaning new battles each time you roll off! I'm really proud of this and I hope you guys enjoy the latest version, i've been playing this a lot with my club and its been a riot, so far i'm 5 pages in to keep it simple. I'll add more as content is demanded. 

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New Version of HEROIC PLAY. This version adds some fixes to the existing game mode, as well as more information for creating campaigns. There are a few more extra features but I believe my favorite one has to be Malign Portents support! I've included a whole new page specifically fora new guiding portent. I want to see those harbingers hit the table!

If you guys can, please let me know if there is any fixes or additions you would suggest. I'd like constructive feedback and suggestions!

DOWNLOAD HEROIC PLAY 3.0: https://goo.gl/TKfxBr

Update February 14th 2018: heroic play 3.0

- added malign portents support

- longform campaign support

- named hero support

- cleaned up text

- Changed sone visual stuff

Outdated Content as of 6/6/17

Spoiler

HEROIC PLAY for HINTERLANDS 1.0

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Download: HEROICPLAY.pdf

Things to do:

  • Narrative Campaign Content
  • Allegiance pages for grand alliances
  • Allegiance pages for sub factions
  • Character Creation
  • Times of War
  • Battleplans for Multiplayer
  • Battleplans for Narrative
  • Battleplans for Solo Heroes
  • Loot tables
  • Warscroll Regiments

 

Allegiance Page Drafts

Spoiler

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Battleplan Drafts

Spoiler

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heroicplayforskirmish.pdf

Edited by hellalugosi
heroic play for aos skirmish update 3.0
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I imagine many players would find faction-specific allegiance abilities to be a characterful touch. Personally, I wouldn't be able to make use of them with my current warband because even though it's mainly flesh-eaters there will be one or two models from other factions - the reason being that for me the character/conversion comes first and I pick the warscroll that fits them best. It would be interesting to know what proportion of players field mono-faction warbands. If a lot of people don't it might be worth making your allegiance rules a bit more flexible - maybe let them be used if the leader and two-thirds of the models share the same faction keyword.

Getting down to specifics, I'll give you my thoughts on your flesh-eaters rules, since this is my faction.

I see a few potential issues with Mordant Horde. Firstly, having units with multiple models rather than independent characters feels a bit off for Hinterlands. Secondly, if the unit appears on the table edge and disappears at the end of the turn then the potential for it to have no impact at all is going to be very high most of the time. Lastly, the narrative of a group of ghouls heeding their master's call only to disappear from the field again almost immediately, over and over, for no apparent reason, is a bit unsatisfying - and this game is all about immersing yourself in the narrative after all.

That kind of brings me on to the issue I have with Feasts. The idea behind it has a good narrative foundation (although could be a little clearer IMO) but the actual effects seem very generic and 'gamey'. I'd like to see the effects themselves do something that feels characterful to the flesh-eaters and actually creates little storytelling moments.

In general I'd say that for a game like Hinterlands this is exactly what allegiance abilities should do - not give bonuses as such, but promote storytelling moments and opportunities. Rewarding players with powerful bonuses for sticking rigidly to a single faction and disadvantaging those who have a well themed but mixed warband potentially discourages creativity and storytelling.

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@Jamie the Jasper

I agree with a lot of your concerns. I've spent a bit of time trying to make the abilities less obviously gamey. So i've tried to redo the page to see if it works a bit more flavor! Its good to have input from any of the faction players out there, since i haven't played every army, i'd like more narrative perspective.

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As for any abilities that adds models to the table, my intention is basically how hinterlands already handles it with the Master Necromancy trait. They are always separate models.

On the topic of players who play faction specific, i'd have to say that my entire club plays like this, and mixed warbands are rare, but there are narrative flavors to both, so i will definitely try to support both. Faction allegiances are something i've really wanted to make for a while now though since the new books came out, so they will be first.

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This is awesome! Exactly the sort of thing I was hoping people would make for Hinterlands. I like that you've kept the command traits true to Hinterlands in that one is a force multiplier and one buffs your general.

Do you plan to make many more of these? Once you have a few I would love to link a download in the main Hinterlands thread! (Or I could just link this thread if you prefer?)

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On 7. maj 2017 at 9:51 AM, hellalugosi said:

 

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Could also center around adding some kind of reward for eating the dead.. Ie: you can use a turn not attacking on eating instead, to heals a wound... One possibility for a narrative ploy could also center around adding some kind of reward/adverse effect for eating the dead

For instance, you can use a turn eating flesh but lose the chance of attacking this turn. Roll a d6: On a 1-2 you heal a wound but become bloated and get some kind of minus to movement next turn. On a 3-5 you heal a wound. On a 6 you get +1 to hit next turn (but no heal).

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3 hours ago, Teletomas said:

Could also center around adding some kind of reward for eating the dead.. Ie: you can use a turn not attacking on eating instead, to heals a wound... One possibility for a narrative ploy could also center around adding some kind of reward/adverse effect for eating the dead

For instance, you can use a turn eating flesh but lose the chance of attacking this turn. Roll a d6: On a 1-2 you heal a wound but become bloated and get some kind of minus to movement next turn. On a 3-5 you heal a wound. On a 6 you get +1 to hit next turn (but no heal).

What I like about this is that there's a clear relationship between the fiction of the situation and the impact it has in game terms. I also like the fact that there's an element of risk and the potential for things to go wrong - that's the essence of drama. I'd like to think that the majority of people playing Hinterlands would welcome this kind of narrative potential over straight up buffs that improve their chance of winning the game.

Another thought that occurred to me regarding the flesh-eater courts is that there are two diametrically opposed aspects to their nature - you have the way they see themselves (chivalrous, virtuous, noble, heroic) and the way they actually are (debased, twisted, monstrous, cannibalistic). I think it would be interesting if the two command traits each reflected one of these aspects. Rather than just giving tactical options and buffs, this would give players an opportunity to have their warband play in a way that fits their theme. For example, the background and conversions for my flesh-eaters plays up their chivalrous delusions, so a command trait that supported this fiction would hugely enrich my gaming experience.

You could do similar things with the other factions. So Fyreslayers for example are mercenaries that will sell their services to the highest bidder (within reason) but they're also a proud and noble warrior brotherhood. Seraphon are magical beings of celestial light, but they're also hissing, hulking reptilian beasts. I think command traits that reflect different aspects of the faction would be a small but appealing way to support themed warbands and home-made background.

The more I think about it, what it really comes down to for me is 'why have command abilities in Hinterlands'? Do they exist just to reflect the structure of 'standard' AoS for the sake of it, or do they actively enrich the Hinterlands experience? Maybe rather than rushing in with something that mimics the structure of standard AoS, the whole idea of command traits needs to be deconstructed and reconstructed to support the different focus that Hinterlands has.

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What I like about this is that there's a clear relationship between the fiction of the situation and the impact it has in game terms. I also like the fact that there's an element of risk and the potential for things to go wrong - that's the essence of drama. I'd like to think that the majority of people playing Hinterlands would welcome this kind of narrative potential over straight up buffs that improve their chance of winning the game.
Another thought that occurred to me regarding the flesh-eater courts is that there are two diametrically opposed aspects to their nature - you have the way they see themselves (chivalrous, virtuous, noble, heroic) and the way they actually are (debased, twisted, monstrous, cannibalistic). I think it would be interesting if the two command traits each reflected one of these aspects

I really agree that fluffy mechanics, that go both ways is really helpful from a narrative side of the game, and something I like a lot. Kind of like in Arkham Horror the Card Game, where your investigator carries som dark and potentially crippling secret with him/her. Like the reincarnated dark age sorcerer reborn as a waitress with nightmares of her former life. If shes unlucky she could be wracked by night terrorsand unleash her powers on everyone friends included, going mad in the process...
Back to FEC, I actually think you just mentioned the mot interesting fluffy thing about them, which IMO isn't the fact that they are cannibals, but the fact that they're raving lunatics convinced of their chivalrous deeds... so, whatabout something like "A Call to Arms": the ghoul kings commands his minions to defend the realm against the wicked, roll a d6. on a 6 they heed his call with renewed fervour, sure that they are fighting the just cause and get +1 to hit and wound. On a 2-5 they get +1 to hit. on a roll of 1, the ghoul kings illusion glimmers for just a second and the 'valiant knights' get a oh so brief glimpse of reality and are stunned with fear and terror: if they are not in battle already they loose the possibility pf charging this turn, until the illusion is restored. They can still move and run. If they are already in battle when the illusion broke, they get -1 to hit this turn and their bravery is reduced by 2.....

?
Also, I think mercenary dwarfs are the way to go, with positive and negative mechanics for all..




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Maybe +1 to BOTH hit and wound on a roll of 6 is too over powered, and instead should be something like +1 to hit and you charge and run with one more die, and pick the highest..
?

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Valour of the Court

Your warband may only rout on a 4+. However, you may add 3" to all charge rolls and your HERO models gain +1 to hit against the enemy HERO on the battlefield that has the highest XP.

 

EDIT: I suppose I should explain this rather than just throwing it up here! Basically, to me something like this achieves a few things:

  • It gives advantages but also disadvantages that can create drama and storytelling moments, i.e. the moment the 'chivalrous' flesh-eaters refused to flee from the vile foe, even against overwhelming odds and in the face of certain death or injury. Or alternatively it can be viewed as a psychotic, ravenous frenzy that renders them blind to self-preservation. So it actively supports different takes on the flesh-eater lore. A simple -1 to wound or similar doesn't create in-game moments in the same way, no matter what fluffy explanation accompanies it on the page.

 

  • The buff effect is (I think) a clear and intuitive representation of the kind of behaviour that might plausibly unfold as part of the flesh-eaters' narrative. Flesh-eater heroes gaining +1 to hit against the enemy hero on the battlefield that has the highest XP is (again, I think) pretty clearly designed to encourage the idea of a noble duel between worthy champions. Ideally, the type of narrative moments you're trying to encourage should be obvious just from reading the rule, even without a line of fluffy explanation to accompany it. At the moment I feel like a lot of @hellalugosi's command traits (with all due respect to the sterling effort he's putting in) put a lot of the narrative meat in the fluffy sentence that precedes the rule, but the rules themselves don't always feel like a natural and intuitive extension of that fluff. In some cases (but by no means all) I feel like if the fluff sentence was removed then the effect itself could be any random buff, and I'd have no idea what story the effect is trying to help me tell. In fairness this is probably true of a lot of GW command traits too, so maybe my expectations here are unrealistic!

 

  • It feels like an organic expansion of the Hinterlands rules and (arguably) does something that a standard AoS command trait can't, by tying in with mechanics that only exists in Hinterlands (routing and XP). This in my view elevates it slightly to something that enriches the Hinterlands experience, rather than sticking closely to the style of command abilities that have been established for standard AoS. With a bit more thought I suspect the connection to Hinterlands could be made even richer, deeper and more satisfying than what I've suggested here.

 

I'm not saying that this command trait I've suggested is perfect by any means - I'm sure others can (and should) poke holes in it. I just think it's a good representation of the general rationale I'd appreciate for creating faction traits in a game like Hinterlands.

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Hey guys! I've been sick and haven't been able to work on much content lately, however i do appreciate that there have been quite a few replies!

So on the topic of Flesh Eater Courts, I think that valour of the court is a neat idea, but i think it'd sound better worded like this, scaling down the power level to keep it balanced gameplay wise:

Valour of the Court: Models in your warband can reroll failed hit rolls against models with a higher level than their own.

And your thoughts reflected some of the reasons i made the changed to the feast abilities. I wanted to showcase that your courtier is a valiant leader commanding and rallying his troops at a whim, using the hunt to patrol objective points and get to enemies more efficiently, using feed to swarm and devour a model potentially, and using guard as an old scool 'look out sir' mechanic youd find in more oganized militant armies.

My attempts to compromise narrative and gameplay are reflections of the culmination of this project. A Hinterlands general's handbook. One where i will go into detail about different ways to play, as well as updating some rules that could be interesting to try out in hinterlands. 

Today I will give a preview of HEROIC PLAY. A match play-esque game mode that uses quickfire best of 3 battles with a randomly generated battleplan and hero customization. From now on, most of the content i make will reflect the ruleset i'm introducing with Heroic Play, and ill have a battle report made sometime to showcase these changed! I only have the first two pages today, but i'm excited to show you guys the rest when im finished with it! 

EDIT: Please excuse a few glaring typos, i'll be proofreading as i go on and make these pages

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In terms of other allegiances I'm working on, i'm going to spoil that im taking on Sylvaneth and Deathrattle. I'm also working on warscroll battalions as well.

Edited by hellalugosi
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8 hours ago, hellalugosi said:

Valour of the Court: Models in your warband can reroll failed hit rolls against models with a higher level than their own.

Yeah, that works!

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Alright so here's the big drop for HEROIC PLAY for Hinterlands! hope to get your thoughts, @bottle

HEROIC PLAY 1.0

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HEROICPLAY.pdf

So with this i aim to build a bigger collection of mods you can bring to hinterlands, i think its best to look at these as not how i THINK hinterlands should be played, but how i think Hinterlands can be enjoyed in different ways. If anyone wants to bring in cool battleplan ideas that have worked for their groups, i'd love to include them in one of the sections of my (for lack of a better term) "general's handbook" for the game system. Obviously when AOS skirmish comes out, i'll try to bring over content from these pages, to the system!

With these five pages, you will find the way 've been playing leveling up, Heroic Play does not use the EXP system, but uses a shadow war-esque style advancement system, where i really liked the idea of caches, but didn't like how it was how you won the game. So i combined it with the EXP system and viola, it works out pretty good. Games are played in up to 3 battles, each one a rapid fire duel with simple asymetrical objectives, along with this a another shadow war style adaptation, adding bottle tests, but they will essentially be a leader only battleshock test with 2D6. You can buff this with your leader ability every turn, but i'll be providing and updating allegiance tables to include grand alliance leader abilities, so the choice to use which one will be challenging.

Hopefully you guys can also give me feedback on the Hero Upgrades, i need to figure out which one of these needs fine tuning, so if you have feedback about something thats busted, let me know!

 

otherwise, enjoy!

 

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Heres also a preview of the general layout for Warscroll Regiments. These are kind of quick play guidelines, and will tell you from the get go what kind of warband you're playing. Of course as you play youll be able to recruit more models into your army that arent part of these regiments. This is another step that i think will make heroic play really interesting, as a player who doesn't have a warband in mind, or even a new player can just grab these regiments and be fairly even with other warbands based on the warband level.

There are many more pages to come!

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So now that i kind of have my layouts figured out, i'm going to be redoing allegiances altogether, and starting with the grand alliance onces before i jump into subfactions just yet. 

Today i roll out grand alliance death as a preview, and i'm making leader abilities choosable out of six possible options, which is very different from how command abilities are in AOS. this way it should feel unique to building your warband. Theres a new warband wide battle trait im gonna play around with, so if anyone wants to playtest it and give me feedback, thatd be helpful. I've also added follower rewards so you may gift a model with the FOLLOWER battlefield role a special ability instead of a regular advancement. 

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New content this week, I managed to catch the streak of AOS skirmish and am really excited, looks like i'm going to have a lot of fun making content for it! Do you guys think we'll get our own forum subcategory for it? 

Order Allegiance Pages

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Hope you guys havent forgotten about me! I've actually been busy all month, but i've managed to put out a fully functional packet for heroic play for aos skirmish! Iv'e updated the first post with the pdf, as well as a preview of the rules. Feedback is greatly appreciated!

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  • 3 months later...
On 9/29/2017 at 6:52 PM, Shea said:

news about? 

this has been on hold since i started ingesting the new books! ive become a big fan of bath to glory and i may make some content to unify this system's use between skirmish AND PtG! maybe even firestorm!

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  • 2 months later...
  • 1 month later...

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New Version of HEROIC PLAY. This version adds some fixes to the existing game mode, as well as more information for creating campaigns. There are a few more extra features but I believe my favorite one has to be Malign Portents support! I've included a whole new page specifically fora new guiding portent. I want to see those harbingers hit the table!

 

If you guys can, please let me know if there is any fixes or additions you would suggest. I'd like constructive feedback and suggestions!

DOWNLOAD HEROIC PLAY 3.0: https://goo.gl/TKfxBr

Edited by hellalugosi
fixed text
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Ooh just stumbled across this and gonna have to check it out when I get home since I can't download it at work. Been wanting to start doing some skirmish again but I find the basic rules a bit lacking. Is this designed for just point games or does it have a campaign style narrative progression? Frankly I'd love to see something with a bit of either!

Also does it use the same lists as in skirmish or expanded to feature extra units that aren't in the skirmish book itself?

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4 hours ago, Lightbox said:

Ooh just stumbled across this and gonna have to check it out when I get home since I can't download it at work. Been wanting to start doing some skirmish again but I find the basic rules a bit lacking. Is this designed for just point games or does it have a campaign style narrative progression? Frankly I'd love to see something with a bit of either!

Also does it use the same lists as in skirmish or expanded to feature extra units that aren't in the skirmish book itself?

i hope to hear back from you once youve tried it!

the format is meabt to be played like the clash of wills campaign from the original generals handbook! a small set of games that are each completely different and offer lots of exciting gameplay. As opposed to a long narrative, i felt there is room for those campaign in a day kind of rulesets. ive included rules for longer campaigns if you do enjoy that though!

it uses the same renown system as its an expansion of the base skirmish book, i would recommend finding the unnofficial points list in the regular age of sigmar discussion section of this forum.

however, for most up to date points i recommend using this formula:

[(points for minimum sized unit) ÷ 5] ÷ how many models inside unit. 

for example, Neave Blacktalon is 120pts. divide by 5 for 24pts. then divide by the models in a unit which ia 1, and you end up with 24pts!

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I'll definitely have a read of it and see if I can get my group to try it :D

 

I think my ideal would be finding a campaign system you can run a little like mordheim, upgrading your heroes a little and building your warband. At my club we used to run regular mordheim games so you could easily bring in new warbands or play your old ones and just build them up without necessarily needing an end. Though we did like keeping track of wins/losses. 

 

I think the thing from yours of constant changing battleplans could really lend itself to something like that but regardless will be nice to have quick fire campaign in a day stuff for any big gaming days :D

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