Let's chat : Maggotkin of Nurgle

[Arkiham]

8 minutes ago, Louzi said:

You guys know, that 95% of all posted lists here lack model count, right?

In my experience, Nurgle cant win by smashing the opponent, because the damage output is too low. But Nurgle can still get alot of wins, if you are playing just for objectives. I think most of the Nurgle players dont get it and want to kill the opponent, what is the wrong tactic...

I also think (yeah very uncommon opinion) that the Glottkin is just great. Take 30 Plague Bearers, cast spell on them and let them sit on enemy objective all day long.

Every Nurgle list should  have:

Much Plague Bearers (one of the best battlelines out there!). Dont go for 10 per unit. Take at least 20, better 30 per unit.

Get a GUO - he is just great.

Dont stick with the overestimated Harbringer. If you can afford, get a Glottkin and protect him well. Dont rush with him and dont make stupid charges into nowhere.

Get Epidemus. One of the best buffers in the game.

Epi doesn't provide much outside of his buff.

You say don't aim to kill everything then say to run a guy who wants you to kill everything, it'll be turn 4 or five before you get any meaningful bonus from him. Game is nearly always over by then

[Louzi]

I disagree, sry.

Bloodsecrator doesnt provide much outside of his buff, too. But that is not the point. The buff is just awesome and worth the points.

And you will kill for sure. But that shouldnt be your main goal. Just be clever, wait for your chances and be aware of that 90% of all armies out there will punch u much harder than your's and you are doing good. 

I definetely would run Sayl, too. Get a block of 10 Blightkings/30 PB/Glottkin and Sayl is just great.

[Arkiham]

The blood secrator buff is immediate and not dependant on the rest of your army who aren't very killy to kill.

the benefit is the same against all armies and is arguably better.

Epi on the other hand, is 60 points more, requires ramp up in order to be good and requires your army to perform.

Some armies you'll be lucky to get the bonuses, let alone higher ones

Ironjawz, sylvaneth, tank and spank stormcast forces. Beast clawraiders, these are all common forces you go up against,

how you going to rack up 14-20 kills against pure ironjawz, beastclaw, kurnoth hunter sylvaneth or 3+ rerolling 1s stormcast? The latter three all of whom have very good potential of killing epi before the buff is active. 

Don't get me wrong I like the guy, just at 2.5k+

he's just too pricey, just under 10% of your army for 2k and the aggression too slow, sure you might win against some skaven or some death lists where he can ramp up quickly. But there isn't many of those armies around.

[shadowgra]

Imho epidemius at 2k and with the meta that has been played since gh isn't just worth it. I tried it, it also did well but having almost 200 points that do nothing for almost 2 turns is embarassing.

Also what we must remember is that he gains the buff at the start of the hero phase, meaning that u could have the reroll to hit even at turn 3, and at this point is meaningless. I prefer running 10 warriors or 5 bk more than him. Finally there are plenty of heroes that simply outclass him at 2k : harbinger, guo, be lakor, sayl, bloab, sorcerer

[Louzi]

Maybe we play a different meta. I play vs alot of bloodletters, ghouls, goblins etc.

But the Epidemus wasnt my main message by the way

[shadowgra]

Am i the only one who thinks that plagueclaw is overrated?

The more i play it, the less i like it. Too much random damage for a squishy skaven warmachine that works well vs horde and not really well vs all the rest

Often even if i put daemonic power on it, it does struggle in repaying is cost

[Aaron Schmidt]

Just now, shadowgra said:

Am i the only one who thinks that plagueclaw is overrated?

The more i play it, the less i like it. Too much random damage for a squishy skaven warmachine that works well vs horde and not really well vs all the rest

Often even if i put daemonic power on it, it does struggle in repaying is cost

I've not tried one out yet. I considered it because it fits from a narrative perspective and it does something that little else in the Nurgle Demon army does, shoots at long range. It certainly seems less fantastic against MSU armies. Is that what you face mostly in your local games?

[shadowgra]

Exactly, and also i play mostly vs stormcast and ironjawz, they play 40 and 32 models respectively. Also they have no units with more than 10 models, which kinda weakens the catapult.

I personally think that an infernal cannon is way better in the big armor save meta instead of the catapult, even if it costs 120 more points.

[Arkiham]

I like it. It's not effective so does depend on meta.

Against some armies the game can nearly be won by turn 2.

I ran 2 against some dwarves and killed a 400 point unit dead turn 1. 

My opponents had to dedicate about 700 points to kill them over next 2 turns and that was only as I position them for fun rather than competitiveness

[Thomas Lyons]

If you want to run a competitive list that can compete at the highest tiers of play, I think Plaguetouched has the best chance, followed by Tallyband.  As stated, with both you need to play for objectives.  

And yes, a Plaguetouched Warband properly built can go toe-to-toe with all of the top tier lists currently in play.  I'm taking two variants of my Plaguetouched list to Nashcon this weekend and expect to do quite well (after the list's performance at Adepticon).  I'll post updates on Sunday.

[sal4m4nd3r]

On 5/31/2017 at 2:25 PM, Thomas Lyons said:

If you want to run a competitive list that can compete at the highest tiers of play, I think Plaguetouched has the best chance, followed by Tallyband.  As stated, with both you need to play for objectives.  

And yes, a Plaguetouched Warband properly built can go toe-to-toe with all of the top tier lists currently in play.  I'm taking two variants of my Plaguetouched list to Nashcon this weekend and expect to do quite well (after the list's performance at Adepticon).  I'll post updates on Sunday.

Is your list going to be similar/same to that of adepticon? I like your list.. a lot. And the strategy is sound. I Personally won't can't bring myself to field sayl.. but I hope you very well as you did last time!

[Thomas Lyons]

33 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Is your list going to be similar/same to that of adepticon? I like your list.. a lot. And the strategy is sound. I Personally won't can't bring myself to field sayl.. but I hope you very well as you did last time!

Nashcon is requiring players to bring two different lists and play both of them at least once over the course of the five games.  One of the lists is identical to my Adepticon list (with more summoning options) and the other is basically identical, dropping Be'lakor for a VERY large summoning pool (360 points). Against heavy Skyfire lists, Be'lakor is a liability, so I went with huge summonable tarpits, which should thwart such lists in objective play since even the heaviest Skyfire list needs to focus fire the warriors to have a chance of bringing them down.  If there is another block they need to spend two rounds on (either 20 Plaguebearers w/-2 to hit at range or a 10 Pink Horror->20 Blue Horror->20 Brimstone Horror block), they'll never chew through one of them.  I also have some other summoning shenanigans that I can pull out with the alternative list as well.  It should be interesting at least :-)

[sal4m4nd3r]

Very smart. Do you have a way of reliably hitting ten on the summoning role for 20 plaguebros? Also are nurglings a viable choice. The auto full regen is nice as it forces your opponents hand if he/she doesn't fully kill a base. 

 

Do do you plan on coming to nova open? 

[shadowgra]

I played this list last weekend if u want some ideas for a ptwb 

Ptwb 

Harbinger

Bloab

Sorcerer

28 warriors

28 marauders

10 marauders

2*5 Blightkings

Sayl

 

The advantage of having a marauder horde bubblewrapping your heroes while warriors fly hammering everything is really useful vs really fast army and msu.

Also bloab really surprised me, putting out 6 mortal wounds of spell on gordrakk with the spell and shotting him out of the table.

Plus a 4+ 5++ is not that bad in terms of tankiness

 

[Thomas Lyons]

6 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Very smart. Do you have a way of reliably hitting ten on the summoning role for 20 plaguebros? Also are nurglings a viable choice. The auto full regen is nice as it forces your opponents hand if he/she doesn't fully kill a base. 

 

Do do you plan on coming to nova open? 

I have Heralds of Tzeentch in my summoning pool who can three dice a spell, as can Sayl.  Three dicing generates a 10.5 on average.  This isn't assured but it will often get the job done.  If it doesn't I can followup with a Pink Horrors->20 Blue Horrors.  Not perfect, but it can work in a tight spot.  

 

2 hours ago, shadowgra said:

Ptwb 

Harbinger

Bloab

Sorcerer

28 warriors

28 marauders

10 marauders

2*5 Blightkings

Sayl

This is obviously very similar to what I run.  I personally don't like Bloab and choose to sub him and a lower marauder count for Be'lakor and a 120 point summoning pool.  That said, I think against most opponents this force would work just fine.  

[Aaron Schmidt]

Plaguetoched Warband seems pretty sweet. If I ran more mortals I'd give it a shot. Shame plague-monks don't have the mortal keyword.


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[shadowgra]

 

1 hour ago, Thomas Lyons said:

This is obviously very similar to what I run.  I personally don't like Bloab and choose to sub him and a lower marauder count for Be'lakor and a 120 point summoning pool.  That said, I think against most opponents this force would work just fine.  

Since stormcast are popular i prefer bloab since it has a save vs mortal wounds and an higher wound count than be'lakor (he hates mortal wounds so badly ;D )

I sometime miss be'lakor double casting and his ability to basically block one unit in a whole turn. However i am sticking with bloab for now, it works better for my playstyle (really aggressive).

However against the destruction battlebrew plaguetouched is just disgusting ahahaha

[Thomas Lyons]

On June 1, 2017 at 8:56 PM, sal4m4nd3r said:

Is your list going to be similar/same to that of adepticon? I like your list.. a lot. And the strategy is sound. I Personally won't can't bring myself to field sayl.. but I hope you very well as you did last time!

So, Nashcon went fairly well all things considered.  I had three major victories (all Tzeentch lists) [45 points], a minor loss (Sylvaneth Gnarlroot on Blood and Glory) [5 points] and a major loss (1 drop Hallowed Knights on Gift from the Heavens) [0 points].  I completed 3 of my 5 schemes [30 points] and took 3rd place on Best Painted [5 points]. 

The minor loss was to Tyler Emerson,  @scrubyandwells (who won Best Order General), and it came down to points killed, which he got 2 units of marauders (120). We called it because I was sure he had me on points (forgetting that just killed one of the units of Dryads would have put us at a draw [7 Points]).   I made some mistakes (engaged the Household Treeman and forgetting I couldn't retreat from him, which had been my plan) and Tyler played a smart game.  It also didn't help that Tyler was intimately versed in my tactics (watching multiple games of mine at Adepticon, having thoroughly read my blog and wanting to cowrite a piece about my list's tactics for another site, lol).  The mobility of Sylvaneth was always going to be a bad matchup for my list so I don't feel bad about this loss at all.

The major loss was to Mathew Swinney (who won Best Overall) and this game literally came down to multiple instances where a single dice roll would have swung the game to a major victory in my favor.  He single dropped and gave me the top of 1 (lol), so I stretched the Chaos Warrior line the whole length of his 3 drop points (in Gift of the Heavens) and charged the Warriors into his entire front line (which included a 10 pack of protectors, all 6 of his Lords of Storm heroes, 4 fulminators and a 5 pack of Liberators).  He very quickly realized that he would have to grind the ENTIRE block for him to start scoring points in turn 2 (since I could remove causalities from anywhere).  The first mistake I made was that I should have given him the top of two when I won that initiative since it would have given him 1 less combat of grinding on the Warriors, and thus he would have loss the turn 2 point.  Had I done that, I could have Sayl'd the warriors and retreated them into cohesion onto his meteor point.  Even still, he barely broke the warriors at the end of 2 after 4 combats of grinding, which could have also put me up in points.  I had largely zone out my area to keep him off my point, which shouldn't have been an issue but when I lost initiative on turn 3, he was able to make a long charge 9" and pile around a Blightking to put 1 Liberator within 6" of my point.  It then became a race to kill 5 liberators with a partial unit of blight kings and some marauders (which they failed to do).  If their failures weren't bad enough, I even summoned a Herald of Tzeentch in that final turn, blew a three dice to Pink Fire him, made it and then fired off an arcane bolt with his extra cast.  Unfortunately I only did 3 wounds with the spells (out of 1d6 +1d3 mortal wounds) to the remaining 4 Liberators and it all just wasn't enough.  It was a great game that was a nailbiter to the end.  

I only completed 3 of my 5 schemes, although I should have had my 4th scheme completed in my last game.  My general had to kill the enemy general and everything was set up to do that in the final round of play.  My 4 fully buffed (including Daemonic power and Damned Terrain) Blightkings put 23 confirmed wounds on the enemy's LOC (who was at 13 wounds with a 4+ save).  Statistically, he should have dropped to 1 wound and my general was activating next...but he failed 13 saves and the BK killed him to a wound :-/  

The final scores were incredibly tight at the top, as you can see: 

Had the stupid blight kings not murdered the LOC, I'd easily jumped 5 players into 3rd place.  Robert Neal, who I major victoried in Round 2, ended up taking 3rd after crushing my cohost Vince in the final round :-/  Ironically, that victory against Mathew would have swung me up to be tied at 1st place.  So I three way tied for 6th place, although 1 or 2 dice rolls different would have had me in the top 3 easily.  It all came down to a couple rolls and, unless you're Tzeentch, you don't get to control your dice rolls.  

I feel pretty good about the list's performance and it did everything that it was supposed to do, especially against Tzeentch players.  In such a Tzeentch heavy meta with them on the top tables, you can't ask for a better counter-meta list that can fight in the rain of ranged attacks and mortal wounds while also able to tank the hardest melee lists, often from the top of turn 1.  

 

[Arkiham]

@Thomas Lyons 

What was the lists? Can't find them 

[Thomas Lyons]

7 hours ago, Arkiham said:

@Thomas Lyons 

What was the lists? Can't find them 

My primary list for the event was just my Adepticon list but with an expanded summoning pool:

Harbinger of Death                                                 140 pts  – GHB pg. 133        in Plaguetouched Warband

·      General

·      Command Trait: Cunning Deceiver

·      Item: Chaos Talisman

Chaos Sorcerer Lord on Chaos Steed                 120 pts  – GHB pg. 151        in Plaguetouched Warband

·      Item: Crown of Conquest

28 Chaos Warriors [Battleline]                             540 pts – GHB pg. 134         in Plaguetouched Warband

10 Marauders [Battleline]                                      60 pts – GHB pg. 134         in Plaguetouched Warband

10 Marauders [Battleline]                                      60 pts – GHB pg. 134         in Plaguetouched Warband

10 Marauders [Battleline]                                      60 pts – GHB pg. 134         in Plaguetouched Warband

5 Putrid Blightkings                                               180 pts  – GHB pg. 133        in Plaguetouched Warband

5 Putrid Blightkings                                               180 pts  – GHB pg. 133        in Plaguetouched Warband

Plaguetouched Warband                                       140 pts – GHB pg. 131        

Sayl the Faithless                                                  160 pts – FW Points Sheet

Be’lakor, Chaos Daemon Prince                            240 pts – GHB pg. 131

Reinforcement Points                                           120 pts          

·      Summoning Pool

o   10 Plaguebearers                             100 pts – GHB pg. 130

o   10 Furies (Nurgle)                            120 pts – GHB pg. 131

o   Herald of Nurgle                               100 pts – GHB pg. 130

o   Herald of Tzeentch                           120 pts – GHB pg. 131

o   Herald of Tzeentch on Disk              120 pts – GHB pg. 131

o   Balewind Vortex                                100 pts –GW Matched Play Sheet 

 

My second list was basically this same list but instead getting rid of Be'Lakor and dumping his 240 points into Reinforcement points for a total of 360.  When I did that, this was my summoning pool:

·      Summoning Pool

o   30 Plaguebearers                             300 pts – GHB pg. 130

o   10 Furies (Nurgle)                            120 pts – GHB pg. 130

o   Herald of Nurgle                               100 pts – GHB pg. 130

o   2 Heralds of Tzeentch                      240 pts – GHB pg. 131

o   Herald of Tzeentch on Disk              120 pts – GHB pg. 131

o   10 Pink Horrors                                140 pts – GHB pg. 131

o   20 Blue Horrors                                100 pts – DoT pg. 136

o   20 Brimstone Horrors                      80 pts – DoT pg. 136

o   Balewind Vortex                                100 pts –GW Matched Play Sheet 

 

I played the primary list 4 of the 5 games.  I played the last game using my larger summoning pool list against a Tzeentch list with a LOC w/Magical Supremacy .  Fun fact: Unbinding requires line of sight 

[Arkiham]

with the new points out for the forgeworld greater daemons, is the exalted GUO worthwhile? he looks a beast 

[shadowgra]

Imho not. A regular guo with the blade artefact has only 1 less attack and costs almost the half. Also he doesn't have the GUO keyword so no tallyband for him nor other battalions.

I would see him playable at 350

[Arkiham]

8 minutes ago, shadowgra said:

Imho not. A regular guo with the blade artefact has only 1 less attack and costs almost the half. Also he doesn't have the GUO keyword so no tallyband for him nor other battalions.

I would see him playable at 350

i dunno, 

5 extra wounds, 3+ save, extra attacks. i kinda like it.

 

thats on top of the usual 5+ ward and d3 per turn, possible d6 heal per turn 

id say hes more deadly than a wrath of khorne bloodthirster and better value 

[Vomikron Noxis]

Alright chaps, thoughts on this list please:

Allegiance: Chaos

Heroes
Great Unclean One (240)
- General
- Trait: Lord of War
Daemon Prince Of Nurgle (160)
- Artefact: Chaos Runeblade
Daemon Prince Of Nurgle (160)
- Artefact: Chaos Runeblade
Epidemius (180)

Battleline
30 x Plaguebearers Of Nurgle (300)
30 x Plaguebearers Of Nurgle (300)
10 x Plaguebearers Of Nurgle (100)

Units
3 x Plague Drones Of Nurgle (220)
3 x Plague Drones Of Nurgle (220)

Battalions
Tallyband of Nurgle (100)

Total: 1980/2000
 

Not exactly tournament level killer, but should be good to play with at the club. Any changes?

[Aaron Schmidt]

I dig it. You would have fun at an event with this.


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