eekamouse Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Let me preface this by saying, I've only had a chance to play 1000 point games so far, and I'm somewhat hampered by what models I have on hand. However, I have had a chance to set up some 2000 point practice games with the lists below. I can't seem to decide which one I like better. There are probably (likely) some things I am missing in the effectiveness of certain units vs. others... since I'm playing against myself and other armies I've built, but I thought I would shoot out a post here and see if anyone can enlighten me or throw any insight my way. I'm open to suggestions for new units. If I had my druthers (and time/money), I would run a pure Beastclaw list by grabbing a Huskard on Thundertusk for the healing, and basically run it plus everything from the Icewind Assault box. I've also got 20 Gutbuster Grots I've tried splashing in. The Grots are nice for crowding out space, but the 6+ to wound and 6+ save are my bane! If they can rush up and "maybe" get double shots off early, they might be better. I feel like if I could run 40 of them, I would, but only 20 it's not worth it. Here are the lists I'm currently kicking around in my personal order of preference. I'm taking Ravager and Battlebrew for all three lists, and in the case of the List #1 throwing Battlebrew on the Hunter and Talisman of Protection on the Frostlord. I waffle back and forth on that call though. We can't take duplicate artifacts in the tournament. Appreciate any feedback! List #1 - I like this one because I get to deploy the Icebrow Hunter and his Sabres in a later phase to harrass. The list feels a bit weak on the toughness side compared to the other lists though. Leader Icebrow Hunter [160pts] Leader/Behemoth Frostlord on Stonehorn [460pts] Warlord Behemoth Aleguzzler Gargant [180pts] Thundertusk Beastriders [320pts] Blood Vulture Battleline Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Other Frost Sabres [60pts] 2 Frost Sabres Mournfang Pack [400pts] 2x 2 Mournfang Pack, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers Battalion Battalion: Skal [60pts] List #2 - This one is very "charge" heavy. I try to use Ravager to rush everyone and get folks locked into combat turn one and hopefully shoot them up with the Thundertusk and Belchers. This one really wants for a pack of 6x Belchers instead of 3x, but I don't have any more, and I'm not sure what I would squeeze out. I like the Gruntas with all their attacks and wounds. Leader/Behemoth Frostlord on Stonehorn [460pts] Behemoth Thundertusk Beastriders [320pts] Blood Vulture Battleline Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Other Icefall Yhetees [120pts] 3 Icefall Yhetees Leadbelchers [160pts] 3 Leadbelchers Mournfang Pack [400pts] 2x 2 Mournfang Pack, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers Orruk Gore-Gruntas [180pts] 3 Gore-Gruntas, Jagged Gore-hacka List #3 - The pack of 6x Ironguts seems to put out some serious damage. This is definitely the most straight forward to play. Engage the big stuff with the foot units and Mournfang Pack, and let the mammoths pick off their smaller squads and then clean-up after. Leader/Behemoth Frostlord on Stonehorn [460pts] Warlord Behemoth Thundertusk Beastriders [320pts] Blood Vulture Battleline Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Other Ironguts [440pts] 2x 3 Iron guts Mournfang Pack [400pts] 2x 2 Mournfang Pack, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Hey @eekamouse, I've started rebasing an old WFB Ogre Kingdoms army I had back in 7th addition (with a Stonehorn and 4 Mournfang added for 8th) to use in AoS alongside my Ironjawz. At some point though I would like to run some pure Ogor armies...so, a Gutbuster and Beastclaw mix, like yourself. I like list 3 there. You're right, it's pretty straight forward but should be pretty solid and fun to play. I do feel like you're missing out without a wizard, but it's hard to squeeze any points from the list without dropping the Thundertusk. List 1 is more slightly more interesting thanks to the Skal giving additional depth to the list. Once again I feel like you need a wizard. You could drop the Gargant in this list for a Butcher, or if you're happy to diversify, a Grot Shaman which would leave you spare points (more Sabretusks might be fun?). Is there an overall pool of models you have to draw from? Sorry I can't be more useful or specific but I've only just started to look at some of the scrolls myself. I'm actually keen to try out Braggoth's Beast Hammer haha!! I have no idea why, but I like the idea of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse1321 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 One problem with list #1 is you need 2 packs of frost sabers to run the skal battalion so you need to lose something and get more. I would drop the Gargant and add a Butcher with cauldren and another unit of frost sabers. Also always put battlebrew on the Frostlord, it makes him supper killy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 Thanks for the feedback! And, "Doh!" I knew that regarding the Sabres. Too much fiddling with guys and I forgot to add back a second Sabre. I was just looking at adding a Butcher actually. I don't have one with a Cauldron, but I did convert an Irongut that I can use as a Butcher (the guy in the center of the attached pic below with the converted apron). This actually spun me down a rabbit hole. I came up with two more lists. They are basically the same, but I swap out the warscrolls on the mammoths to use Eurlbad. I've not tried these yet, but I think I am leaning toward the first one. The second list sounds really cool, but my Frostlord on Stonehorn isn't really modeled right for it. The tournament would allow it, but I'm not sure the Eurlbad battalion is enough to make up in the drop in stats/dmg output. It does let me throw an artifact on the Butcher. I've alsotried dinking around with another list that uses Skal + Butcher, but it tricky to get all that in. I end up having to swap a Mournfang Pack for 3x Ironguts + Yhetees/Leadbelchers. I didn't think this list would be so hard List #1 - Frostlord on Stonehorn + Thundertusk Beastriders, but no Eurlbad Leader Butcher [140pts] Leader/Behemoth Frostlord on Stonehorn [460pts] Warlord Behemoth Aleguzzler Gargant [180pts] Thundertusk Beastriders [320pts] Blood Vulture Battleline Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Other Icefall Yhetees [120pts] 3 Icefall Yhetees Mournfang Pack [400pts] 2x 2 Mournfang Pack, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers List #2 - Huskard on Stonehorn + Stonehorn Beastriders + Eurlbad Leader Butcher [140pts] Leader/Behemoth Huskard on Stonehorn [380pts] Harpoon Launcher Behemoth Aleguzzler Gargant [180pts] Stonehorn Beastriders [360pts] Blood Vulture Battleline Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3 Ogors Other Icefall Yhetees [120pts] 3 Icefall Yhetees Mournfang Pack [200pts] 2 Mournfang Pack, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers Mournfang Pack [200pts] 2 Mournfang Pack, Culling Clubs or Prey Hackers Battalion Battalion: Eurlbad [60pts] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse1321 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 How do you feel about painting up savage oruks or grots? If you really want to run mix destruction the hardest hitting list drop the Ogors and Gargant for a bunch more bodies and wounds. 128 wounds 2 casters the HUskard on Thundertusck can heal any of the beastclaw units in the hero phase, and the savage Orruks can take objectives with 20 wounds per block of 10. Allegiance: DestructionLeadersHuskard on Stonehorn (380)- General- Trait: Bellowing Tyrant- Artefact: Battle BrewHuskard on Thundertusk (340)Moonclan Grot Shaman (60)- Artefact: Talisman of ProtectionMoonclan Grot Shaman (60)Battleline2 x Mournfang Pack (200)- Gargant Hackers - Beastclaw Raiders Battleline2 x Mournfang Pack (200)- Gargant Hackers - Beastclaw Raiders Battleline10 x Savage Orruks (100)10 x Savage Orruks (100)10 x Savage Orruks (100)Stonehorn Beastriders (360)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineBattalionsEurlbad (60)Total: 1960/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted April 19, 2017 Author Share Posted April 19, 2017 I did look at doing Orruks over Ogors, but I had the Ogors on hand... which is my only real excuse for not going down that road. That list does seem very good though. Kind of covers all your bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I run a Beastclaw/Gutbuster army and I find them quite good fun. At the moment I'm running... Frostlord on Stonehorn (General) - Bellowing Tyrant Frostlord on Stonehorn - Battle Brew Huskard on Thundertusk 9 Ogors 6 Ogors 3 Ogors Bellowing Tyrant is by far my favourite Trait for my general as it means he can buff himself and I sort of get two stonehorns with battle brew!!! The big unit of 9 Ogors are amazing and will smash up units if they can get the charge and have Bellowing Tyrant applied to them. I've been thinking a lot about what I would tweak with the army and I think a Beastclaw Skal Battalion would be good as it lets you apply the pressure straight away. Going back to your first post, I would choose army 3 as I think that would be quite good, but I would drop the Ironguts. They look amazing on paper but for the same amount of points in matched play, a basic unit of Ogors for the same cost will out live and out perform them. Yes the Ironguts get rend on their weapons but the Ogors will be chucking out so many attacks which you get natural re-rolls with, they are better in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Gaz Taylor said: Going back to your first post, I would choose army 3 as I think that would be quite good, but I would drop the Ironguts. They look amazing on paper but for the same amount of points in matched play, a basic unit of Ogors for the same cost will out live and out perform them. Yes the Ironguts get rend on their weapons but the Ogors will be chucking out so many attacks which you get natural re-rolls with, they are better in my book. That's interesting to read Gaz. As you say on paper the Ironguts look great. I was considering either a big unit or a few smaller ones MSU style when I've got my whole army rebased. Luckily I have loads of Ogors as well, so if I end up agreeing with your assessment I have options. On the flipside, I think @ChippyRick liked Ironguts when he used them (maybe pre GH though, can't remember). You got anything to add Ricky? Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said: That's interesting to read Gaz. As you say on paper the Ironguts look great. I was considering either a big unit or a few smaller ones MSU style when I've got my whole army rebased. Luckily I have loads of Ogors as well, so if I end up agreeing with your assessment I have options. On the flipside, I think @ChippyRick liked Ironguts when he used them (maybe pre GH though, can't remember). You got anything to add Ricky? Cheers, Pre GHB, Ironguts were amazing! I think they were the same cost as Ogors and there wasn't anything like Battleline then which is why people have fond memories of them. Hopefully in GHB2 they will be cheaper but at the moment I would go with Ogors everytime as personally there isn't much difference in what they can do but you get more Ogors for similar points. Even in MSU style, I would go with Ogors as I can get 6 for the 3 Ironguts and the Ironguts don't get the re-rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 Thank you! I didn't realize one could use Bellowing Tyrant on themselves! And yes, I should have given a better look at Ogor vs. Irongut! I was just stuck in the mode of "Put these Ogors in here to satisfy Battleline." I already thought Ironguts were way too expensive as it was, but now... yikes! That had me evaluating wounds vs. saves. vs number of attacks of everything I've got. The list below I've got using my Ironguts as Ogors. I like the idea of having two giants which could be a ton of attacks, but I can also swap out the second giant and Leadbelcher unit for the Skal Battlation and units. Still leaves me with the Grots though. Having the Grots in there bothers me, but it's 100 points left. I wonder if whipping a Grot Shaman is a better alternative than a unit of 20 of those, just so I can have an Unbinder. In my playtesting the Grots are a sort of OK screen unit and good for maybe hanging onto an objective. They're cheap anyway. Leaders Frostlord on Stonehorn (460)- General - Command Trait : Ravager - Artefact : Battle Brew Battleline 6 x Ogors (240) 6 x Ogors (240) 3 x Ogors (120) Other 20 x Gutbuster Grots (100) 3 x Leadbelchers (160) Behemoths Aleguzzler Gargant (180) Aleguzzler Gargant (180) Thundertusk Beastriders (320) Total: 2000/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 Whoops! Scratch that. Forgot about my cavalry. Leaders Frostlord on Stonehorn (460)- General - Command Trait : Bellowing Tyrant - Artefact : Battle Brew Battleline 6 x Ogors (240) 6 x Ogors (240) 3 x Ogors (120) Units 4 x Mournfang Pack (400)Behemoths Aleguzzler Gargant (180) Thundertusk Beastriders (320)Total: 1960/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChippyRick Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 On 4/20/2017 at 11:33 AM, Chris Tomlin said: That's interesting to read Gaz. As you say on paper the Ironguts look great. I was considering either a big unit or a few smaller ones MSU style when I've got my whole army rebased. Luckily I have loads of Ogors as well, so if I end up agreeing with your assessment I have options. On the flipside, I think @ChippyRick liked Ironguts when he used them (maybe pre GH though, can't remember). You got anything to add Ricky? Cheers, I think the Ironguts are still a solid choice. With the Destruction move you dont suffer as much as you did pre GHB with the movement (so i used them as the back line defense/second wave) so they can get out quicker and can be a main hitter unit for the army. I always used a unit of 6, and would still go that way i think. Damage output is so good for 440 points, so with either with mixed destruction or full ogors you can still add in decent battleline/numbers and hero support. Also, some of the other buffs you can add like Ravager/bellowing tyrant makes them even more reliable, and if these are the main unit it would be where you use buffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekamouse Posted April 24, 2017 Author Share Posted April 24, 2017 Ya, I'm still chewing on Ironguts. Had a chance to run the last list posted against a somewhat nasty Death list which used Abhorrent Ghoul King on Terrorgheist, a bunch of ghouls and zombies, a catapult which lowered Bravery (I forget what it was called), and a bunch of Tomb King "snake riders". I'm not super familiar with the Tomb King stuff. It did "OK". I killed a lot of stuff, but eventually lost. I could have done a couple of things different to do better. Having something to unbind would have been a godsend for sure against that list. I know there are some Tzeentch and Sylvaneth in the meta here, so I think an unbind-er is a must. The Frostlord did well, as did the Ogors, but I didn't do enough to protect the Beastriders. The Mournfang Pack was kind of underwhelming actually. The Gargant was great to start but then dropped off quickly. I was a bit reckless with him though. This is what I am currently testing, which includes a cheap-o Moonclan Shaman for unbinding and maybe some lucky rolls with it's "Ravenous Maw"-like ability. Based on the Gargant's performance, I feel like Leadbelchers are a decent substitute, considering their variability comes with range. Leader/Behemoth Frostlord on Stonehorn [460pts] General - with Battlebrew and Bellowing Tyrant Leader Grot Shaman [60pts] Behemoth Thundertusk Beastriders [320pts] Blood Vulture Battleline Ogors [120pts] 3x Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3x Ogors Ogors [120pts] 3x Ogors Other Grot Wolf Chariots [80pts] 2x Grot Wolf Chariots Icefall Yhetees [120pts] 3x Icefall Yhetees Ironguts [440pts] 6x Iron guts Leadbelchers [160pts] 3x Leadbelchers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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