New Flesheater Scrolls

[polarbear]

3 hours ago, Karl said:

Just for clarity, are GW saying I can take a "flesh eater terrorgheist" and follow warscroll on the flesh eater tome or I can take a terrorgheist from the beasts of the grave section in the GA book and use that scroll? But the Ghoul Kings, crypt ghasts/horrors are over written and we use the flesh eater tome rules only? Interesting to find out how the tournaments approach it and what GW do in the Generals Handbook. 

In open play, I'd say go for whatever as long as your opponent is fine with it. I would expect in more structured play only the newest version of warscrolls would count.

[Fenske]

For casual, open play, yes I'd say use whatever scrolls you wish as that's pretty much been laid out for us.

I'm sure each event will have their say in warscroll use.

Either way, I'm excited! Just ordered the Big Flesheater Battalion and Battletome.

Reinforcements incoming!

[Darth Alec]

You can use either. Just like you can use the old Black Knights from the VC compendium or the new ones from the GA: Death book.

Best practice is to use the newest warscroll. Exceptions being the warscrolls that haven't been updated (like Vlad), and/or using only a specific set of warscrolls (only VC compendium, only GA: Death).

 

Tournaments will likely demand the use of the newest version of any given warscroll, just to simplify things.

 

[DamonRafael]

On 5/16/2016 at 9:20 PM, Darth Alec said:

You can use either. Just like you can use the old Black Knights from the VC compendium or the new ones from the GA: Death book.

Best practice is to use the newest warscroll. Exceptions being the warscrolls that haven't been updated (like Vlad), and/or using only a specific set of warscrolls (only VC compendium, only GA: Death).

 

Tournaments will likely demand the use of the newest version of any given warscroll, just to simplify things.

 

It actually was confirmed by GW itself in a FB answer.

You can use the WS which better fits in your army. Also, the App will eventually give us the choice to pick the scroll we need - as for terrorgheist we will be able to pick the one with the Keywords we need.

I would say that even in structured games, this will be the rule, but we have to wait the General's Handbook for confirmation

[Karl]

7 hours ago, DamonRafael said:

You can use the WS which better fits in your army. Also, the App will eventually give us the choice to pick the scroll we need - as for terrorgheist we will be able to pick the one with the Keywords we need.

Latest Heelanhammer suggests this is their feelings also. 

Just curious as in comped tournaments will this thinking be carried on?

[DamonRafael]

17 hours ago, Karl said:

Latest Heelanhammer suggests this is their feelings also. 

Just curious as in comped tournaments will this thinking be carried on?

Well, hopefully it will be carried on, but how is another story.. with my knowledge (not much, really) I can only imagine a solution

As far as I understood, the official GW point system will be WarScroll based, this could mean that "double displayed" models will have two different score - I would go with this solution, at least.

So if I take a model with KeyWord "Red" I'll pay 100, while the KeyWord "Blue" costs 200. Could make sense..

[NiallJC1984]

I'm looking to start a new army and am quite tempted by this one. My only reservation is how many additional ghouls or units I might need to add to army on the table!

Anyone had good experiences with the army yet? Do they function well enough on their own or do they need other Death units to work with? I'm looking to play them using SCGT rules until General's Handbook.

Thanks

[NitosApprentice]

Well.... their power is strongly varying based on the rules. For example, I am an Ironjawz player. On paper an ironjawz unit is significantly stronger than flesh eater counterparts. However...

 

In a game that allows couriers to summon, which is a different kind of summoning then its even matched because of their 12'' movement speed and endless reinforcements. They can play strategically. 

In a game that allows the ghoul king to summon then the flesheaters statistically come out on top, since each turn the ghoul king adds a courier which can add models. The reinforcements are faster than Ironjawz can deal with.

In a game that prevents any form of summoning, including courier summoning flesh eaters dont stand a chance against ironjawz, unless its objective based in which their movement speed can give them an advantage but still its more likely the ironjawz will come out on top 9/10.

However, if the ironjawz use their new lord, Gordrakk then they will usually come out on top since the flesh eaters dont have a lord yet unless you count Nagash, which I dont. Since using the command ability they can have 3+ units charge on turn 1 with a ridiculous amount of attacks that will likely kill most the units that can get reinforcements. 

 

When the point system arrives in the generals handbook I imagine they will limit the ghoul kings summoning potential by making you pay points for the couriers to be summoned, but I don't think they will limit the reinforcement summoning from the courier, making them a fairly balanced and strategic army. 

[NiallJC1984]

Thanks for that - hard to gauge how many 'extra' models I'd need!

[Grimnaud]

10 hours ago, NitosApprentice said:

In a game that allows couriers to summon, which is a different kind of summoning then its even matched because of their 12'' movement speed and endless reinforcements. They can play strategically. 

In a game that allows the ghoul king to summon then the flesheaters statistically come out on top, since each turn the ghoul king adds a courier which can add models. The reinforcements are faster than Ironjawz can deal with.

 

Just to be a little nit-picky, Courtiers can't really summon in that respect. They can add models to already existing units within range of their special ability. Only the ghoul king can summon new flesh-eater units to the table.

 

There is a lot of synergy between the different units. Just from looking at the war scrolls, the humble ghouls are going to be the real workhorse of the army. Two attacks each at the outset. Run them in a unit larger than 20, and you get another free attack. If you then have them working in tandem with a Crypt Ghast Courtier, and have him attack first, you can give the ghouls yet another attack if the courtier kills an enemy model. Plus the Courtier can add ghouls to your unit every turn, keeping the unit above 20 and retaining that bonus attack much longer. Then, if you really want to get on the ghoul train, a ghoul king on foot can use his spell to give a unit of ghouls a fifth attack per model. And let them preroll hit rolls of 1 if he's within 15 inches.

 

That said, you'll probably want a necromancer as well to get access to Van Hels, letting a unit pile in and attack twice. 

[Fenske]

Grimnaud touches on some key points...

Flesheaters are a force that relies on synergy for sure. Keeping the ghouls above 20 sure is nice to maximize their damage output. I have 40 painted and aim to do 30 or so more... 

The Courtier's ability (Varghulf included) not only helps with their resilience, but makes them "faster", I mean that as you add new models to units you can close the gap between the enemy with the newly added models!

I'd definitely recommend picking up the Ghoul King Battalion box. It's a great value(one of the best I've seen of recent!) and should give you a great start or provide excellent reinforcements. I expect mine from the Post this Monday!

The Necromancers, and Mortis Engines, as well as Spirit Hosts or provide some help from outside of the Court in terms of mortal wound ability, and the ability to pile in twice as mentioned earlier.

Hope this helps!

[Grimnaud]

1 hour ago, Fenske said:

The Courtier's ability (Varghulf included) not only helps with their resilience, but makes them "faster", I mean that as you add new models to units you can close the gap between the enemy with the newly added models!

So I've been looking at the scrolls, and there doesn't seem to be any real point in using either the Crypt Haunter Courtier, or the Crypt Infernal Courtier aside from fulfilling the battalion requirements. The Varghulf Courtier can do their job better than either of them. Am I missing something? Can anyone else see a good use for the two Courtiers?

[Mehman]

1 hour ago, Grimnaud said:

So I've been looking at the scrolls, and there doesn't seem to be any real point in using either the Crypt Haunter Courtier, or the Crypt Infernal Courtier aside from fulfilling the battalion requirements. The Varghulf Courtier can do their job better than either of them. Am I missing something? Can anyone else see a good use for the two Courtiers?

Beyond the all important redundancy? I may not have the Varghulf Courtier around a viable Crypt Horror or Flayer unit at all times due to Crypt Ghouls being wont to get into trouble but I'll always have one of the big guys' respective Courtiers available and around them.

[Darth Alec]

Redundancy is one thing, fairness is another. You'll want at least one courtier per unit, and you opponent may not be fine with that courtier always being Varghulfs. But the relevant smaller courtiers should be less of an issue there.

 

They may also be significantly cheaper in any comp system. 

 

And they're fluffy! 

[Grimnaud]

I see the redundancy as a reason to favour the Varghulf, as it can stand in for any of the other three courtiers. With the Court being hero-heavy (Seven hero choices to three troop choices and two monsters), how many heroes are you really going to bring? 

As to fairness, that's a point, but there are no clear OP units as far as I can see. It will also heavily depend on how you're using your ghoul king. If you have one on a zombie dragon spamming Varghulfs each turn then that's a problem. If summoning isn't restricted in some way, I think spamming ghouls is more effective. The trifecta of a ghoul king on foot, a Ghast courtier or two and/or a Varghulf summoning ten ghouls and pumping up their number each turn could be hard to deal with.

They are fluffy though. And the Haunter looks pretty cool. Still think I'll skip them when I'm assembling the big box. Having two units of horrors and a unit of flayers seems more appealing.

I really like the synergy of this faction. There's a lot going on depending on the king you choose, which troops you're focussing on, and how you plan to use them.

[Lord_Marrowbroth]

For my planned army I believe I will include a unit of crypt flayers and the courtier. The courtier can keep the unit in the game by replacing losses as long as it isn't a full unit wipe.

While the flyers scream isn't great looking at free people, skaven with bravery 5 you're looking at (albeit a lot of luck) 2 mortal wounds a scream. Then these guy with just a squad of 3 with one upgraded to the "Sarge" you've got 13 attacks with pretty good stats with the chance at being mortal wounds. And if courtier is with them there's an extra 5 attacks -1 rend and 2 damage a piece.

Fluff wise they are the GK bodyguard so you could screen with them or send them flying across table to hunt down wizards, machines, or heroes . So personally from fluff point I like their "missle weapon" and if you start them in your hero phase next to sinister terrain and fly them at someone and then shriek at them your flayers are doing -1 bravery or if they are targeting a unit next to someone causing fear from sinister terrain same thing.

I know it's alot of luck but still. Stormcast Judicators for example are bravery 6 so you go from doing 1 possible mortal to 2. Works for me. I think if they had a higher plus to the dice roll that Battle Cry would be way to overpowered especially since its mortal wounds.

[Nicholas Bollaert]

I think the Battalion Scrolls really add a lot of character and flexibility to the force.  Plus as noted above the Summoning mechanic from the board edges allows you to come at the enemy from multiple sides.

[Nico]

Another point is that the Ghoul Patrol provides an infiltration mechanic (which is completely lacking from the Death GA Book and one of the things the Tomb Kings provide).