(Semi) Competitive Nurgle Plaguetouched 2k List

[Thomas Lyons]

I'm putting together a 2000 point list for a coming event and I'm trying to make what I have painted work.  While the following list has holes (ranged threat), its durability is off the charts.  C&C are welcome.

Plaguetouched 2000

• 140      Harbinger (General: Cunning Deciver Trait, Chaos Talisman)

• 120      Mounted Chaos Sorcerer (Crown of Conquest)

• 260      Bloab Rotspawned

• 200     Warshrine of Nurgle

• 360      10 Blightkings

• 180      5 Blightkings

• 360      20 Chaos Warriors

• 180      28 Marauders

• 140      Plaguetouched Warband

• [60 point Reinforcement Pool: Chaos Furies]

The strengths of this force are numerous. It is a single drop army which will give a good chance of first turn (in order to turn on all the buffs).  It has multiple stacking -1's to hit build into it as well (-1 in CC for everything from the battalion, -1 on a 4+ for enemy units within 7" of Bloab, -1 on first turn of combat from Cunning Deceiver). This will likely hurt the first round of enemy shoot and neuter first round melee alpha strike units.  The army has overlapping 5++ and 6++ ward saves vs. all wounds as well.  For support buffs, the primary unit of Blightkings will regularly have rerolls of 1s to hit, wound, and saves from the Chaos Sorc.  The Chaos Warrior block will have reroll save rolls of 1 from the Chaos Sorc and reroll all failed wounds from the Warshrine.  The marauders will have Battleshock immunity from the Chaos Sorcerer and the battalion makes them a surprising source of mortal wounds (enemy wound rolls of 6+ on them generate a mortal wound; also a mortal wound on a 4+ from unit champion).      

Offense is -ok- but not stellar.  There are a decent amount of mortal wounds from the Marauder block but this requires lining up the right fight.   The Blightkings will blow a lot of things up but they infamously lack rend (as does basically anything in Nurgle so this isn't surprising).  Bloab's mortal wounds spell is fickle and I only have his ranged attack to trigger it in the ranged attack phase which ultimately limits its usefulness.  Finally, in utility are a 60 point reinforcement pool to summon some Chaos Furies as an objective grabber force.

I recognize I do have some flexibility to reorganize the list and some ranged threat would be nice.  I see both the 5 model Blightkings Unit (180) and the Warshrine (200) as things I could feasibly sub out.  If I bring in anything that is non Mortal Nurgle, I'll loose blight kings as battleline and need to bring in more marauders likely (which is doable but I'll need to paint them up).  The possible subs I see are as follows: 

• -Blight Kings (180), +Plagueclaw (180), +10 Marauders (180): This allows for some limited ranged threat (mainly against hoards and those 5 wound linchpin heroes).  It also gives me an additional screening unit.  It does bump my drops to 2 which could threaten turn priority.
• -Blight Kings (180), -Warshrine (200), +Plagueclaw (180), +28 Marauders (180), +10 Marauders (60): This gives me a second block of marauders for point capping and incidental mortal wound generation.  They're attacks won't likely be too bad either.  As a Nurgle unit, they are also surprisingly fast with a 6 base movement and +1 to run and charge.  This lineup also adds the ranged attack.
• -Blight Kings (180), -Warshrine (200), +10 Marauders (60), +10 Marauders (60), +Hellcannon (300): The Hellcannon speaks for itself.  It is a beastly mortal wounds generator that can reach out and touch someone.  It will force the enemy to deal with it as it will reliably remove those low wound heroes.  It is weak to crew sniping, obviously, and doesn't receive any of the warband buffs.

Those are the most feasible substitutions that I currently see although I am open to other solutions.  I look forward to your feedback.

 

 

[sal4m4nd3r]

Oh boy do I like talking dirty.. I mean nurgle. Shrug its all the same >_<

For me, blightkings are either the focus of the army, or they are a sideshow (in a good way) With your stated list they are kinda in between. That 5 man unit is .. just there. Those 180 points can be better used IMO. In general Im not a huge fan of the warshrine. I dont think its worth its point cost in a nurgle army. I would 100% go with your second option. Not only do you AWESOME ranged support from PCC, but the extra 28 marauders offer mortal wound generation, (don't forget to ask if your opponent has +to wound modifiers because the grandfathers gift goes off on a 5+ then!!) and more bodies, but also the extra 10 can sit on a random objective. Possibly a beast of nurgle or more furies here could offer the same idea but slightly different style/options. 

 

Also, keep in mind cunning deceiver is -to hit in the first BATTLE ROUND. Not the first turn of combat. so turn 2 is gone. I am much more a fan of the lord of war trait. Especially if the harbinger is going to be up the blightkings butt all game.. blighted weapons on a 5+ auto is disgusting. 4+ if you hit on UD... DROOOOOOOOL!

What load out do your warriors have? runeshields, with morbid vigor and 4+ save is so strong lol. And I know you absolutley NO room for a glotkin but my god. Him in here with all those marauders, would be so dope. they instatly become some of the best defensive units in the game. especially when they kick back mortals on wound sof 6 LOL sorry im just rambling and daydremaing now hehehe. Really nice list. I wait for your reply and keep this discussion going!

[Thundercake]

how do you get the blighted weapons to a 4+?

 

also, heros count towards the 7 units needed for the warbound requirement, right?

[sal4m4nd3r]

lord of war for +1 to hit, and unpredictable desruction for another +1 to hit.

1 hour ago, Thundercake said:

also, heros count towards the 7 units needed for the warbound requirement, right?

Yes

[Thundercake]

ah yes, forgot about the battle trait.

[Thomas Lyons]

I'm really wrestling with my options @sal4m4nd3r.  Regarding your list suggestions, I agree that all of those marauders would be useful, but I wonder how much help that Plagueclaw will really offer.  It likely won't put a key hero down until 2nd or 3rd turn of firing on average and the 31" range means they likely won't be in range until turn 2 (at best).  Most of the damage will have been done by these key heroes by this time.  Alternatively, the war shrine is giving EVERY unit within range that 6++, which will add up over the course of the game (since it won't be a high priority target).  The second unit of Blightkings, while not being super tough, is still really killy against non-super save targets.  They'll still bury a unit in wounds, even with only 5 models.  More importantly, they are much more maneuverable than a block of 30+ marauders on 32mm bases.  

Regarding which battle traits to take, this list, being melee heavy, needs to survive to get into combat and anything it can take to do that will greatly benefit it.  A huge potential threat is shooting against this army.  Take a Kunnin Rukk for instance, which could put easily over 100 shots in the air on turn one, hitting on a 5+.  This command trait cuts their number of hits in half (since they go to a 6+).  This is HUGE.  Likewise, any first turn alpha strike melee lists (like using Settra, VLoAT, Sayl + Bloodletters, or a Stonehorn super happy fun time) will be a -2 to hit on turn one.  This will crush their alpha strike capability, which is pretty good all things considered.  The only real scary alpha strike at that point are the Mortal Wounds Alpha Strikers, like the Star Soul maces and the Stormfiend Warpfire projectors, and for these I have the double ward saves (5++, 6++, with an additional 5++ or 6++ [or both] on my general, depending on the source).  So this -1 really is a big deal in the current meta.  That said, the +1 to hit for a unit within 3" is also a big deal with 1 or even 2 units of Blight Kings running around.  It is a really tough call and one that I'm just not sure which direction to go on.     

@Nico, do you want to weigh in on this?  I know you have some Nurgle experience.

[Arkiham]

Don't forget, the -1 to hit from bloab is units within the range at the start of the hero phase,  so you gotta have him right up close for it to matter, 

[Thomas Lyons]

24 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

Don't forget, the -1 to hit from bloab is units within the range at the start of the hero phase,  so you gotta have him right up close for it to matter, 

Yep,  I would image the drop to look something like this:

All with the assumption that, based on terrain and enemy army, adjustments can be made (tails can be made by the chaos warriors or the marauders to loop around and protect the rear; extra unit of blight kings can be on whatever flank they need to be; mirror deployment is necessary, etc.).  

The idea here being that I am going to fully buff as much as I can on turn one,  advance as far up the table as I can, and take their charge at the bottom of turn one.  The primary unit of Blightkings will be positions such that if any of the primary line gets charged, it'll for an activation by the Blight Kings since they'll be within 3" and I'll leave enough space so that they can tuck into the curved space between the chaos warriors to get an attack.  Bloab likewise will be in the thick of things pretty early and he has both 2" and 3" attacks.  

Edit:The idea for Bloab, btw, is that after the turn one -1 to hit drops off, Bloab will be within range to debuff appropriate units in order to keep the to-hit penalty at -2 for as many units as possible.

 

[shadowgra]

I think that this list is,yes, very tough and really hard to take down, but once your 2 centerpieces (harbinger and bloab) are gone u will pretty much lose, since u lose tankyness and u still don't have that much damage.

I surely will add a plagueclaw for instance and i think that if u wanna play the plaguetouched u have to go really heavy on marauders, cause they will start making some work at stopping useful resources of the opponent's army. 

Most important tho i have not understand the weapons of the warriors:  if they have shield i think that they will be incredibly useless, since marauders for the same points can put out similar damage and be quite as tanky (with 5+ from harbinger, save from shrine, -1 from pw). I suggest u to run great weapons or drop them completely.

I do like a list like that since it's really resilient. However i am not sure of what it can do against an army with good saves, since it's hard with so few attacks and no rend to put these wounds off. Useless to say that glottkin will boost ur damage output to really high levels. 

Just my 2cents anyway it's a good list, nothing to say about that. U are maximizing nurgle's strenghts in resilience and debuffing

[Thomas Lyons]

4 minutes ago, shadowgra said:

I think that this list is,yes, very tough and really hard to take down, but once your 2 centerpieces (harbinger and bloab) are gone u will pretty much lose, since u lose tankyness and u still don't have that much damage.

Most important tho i have not understand the weapons of the warriors:  if they have shield i think that they will be incredibly useless, since marauders for the same points can put out similar damage and be quite as tanky (with 5+ from harbinger, save from shrine, -1 from pw). I suggest u to run great weapons or drop them completely.

 

I disagree that it is pretty much a loss if I lose the two centerpieces, although I will grant you that losing the Harbinger would be a big blow to the army.  The reality is that the harbinger won't be in combat.  I'll keep him out as best I can so that they have to snipe him out.  If they attempt that, they'll be staring down a 4+ armor, 5++ ward (command), a 6++ ward (shrine), a 6++[5++ vs. order] (Chaos talisman) and a 4++ vs. spells.  And he has two shots at 6+ per hero phase to heal a d3 hp from the blight kings (assuming both units are within range; one frequently won't be).  Take the Kunnin' Rukk for example.  Lets assume the whole Rukk dumped all 90 shots into him twice on turn 1.  Normally they hit on a 4+ turn 1, now on a 5 (and the bonus attacks are only on 6s).  With bonus triggered attacks, 70 will hit on average, 35 will wound.  Of those 35, 17 make it past the armor save.  Only 11 make it past his command ability; 9 past the Shrine ward save, and 7 past his talisman.  So, the most devastating volley in the game just barely kills him on average in one turn, and that assumes all 40 will be in range, which is highly unlikely.  He is not likely to die easily.  (As an aside, just my Blightkings will return the favor with 39 hits, 30 will wound, and 20 will go through, they'll lose 10 models and probably another 5 from battleshock). 

The warriors have shields because we live in a post-tzeentch world of Tzaangor, Skyfires, and legions of spells that do mortal wounds.  These chaos warriors (and the list more generally) responds by rolling ward saves, and lots of them).  The shield also let them take charges from Maw Crushers and other big mortal wounds dealers and shake it off.  I've found their shields to be invaluable in matched play for these two wound models.

I fully admit that its weakest match ups are against forces with a 2+ rerollable.  But against those forces, you lock down whatever you are fighting with something like the chaos warriors (who likewise won't cave easily) and then you leave that combat to go accomplish objectives.  The two tough units can have a slap fight while you go win the game off of objectives.  

Those are just some of my thoughts for why I made the decisions that I made. 

[Thomas Lyons]

5 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

... And I know you absolutley NO room for a glotkin but my god. Him in here with all those marauders, would be so dope....

This is the list you're looking for...

Plaguetouched 2000

• 320     Little Archaon
• 140     Harbinger (Chaos Talisman)
• 120     Mounted Chaos Sorcerer (Crown of Conquest)
• 480     Glottkin
• 360     10 Blightkings
• 180     28 Marauders
• 180     28 Marauders
• 80       10 Marauders
• 140     Plaguetouched Warband

or 

• 320     Little Archaon
• 140     Harbinger (Chaos Talisman)
• 120     Mounted Chaos Sorcerer (Crown of Conquest)
• 480     Glottkin
• 200     Warshrine
• 180     28 Marauders
• 180     28 Marauders
• 180     28 Marauders
• 140     Plaguetouched Warband

[Arkiham]

Most opponents tbh won't even aim for the harbinger, 4+ save 5+5+ is the typical layout, with a shrine add an additional 6+. Why waste shots lol 

[Thomas Lyons]

3 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

Most opponents tbh won't even aim for the harbinger, 4+ save 5+5+ is the typical layout, with a shrine add an additional 6+. Why waste shots lol 

This is the idea--to de-incentivize the opponent to leave him the hell alone ;-)

Edit: As an aside, the above assumed that I was not buffing the Harbinger or putting him on terrain at all.  With a mystic shield, I could easily get him to a 2+ rerollable (+1 mystic shield, +1 cover, reroll 1s from Sorc), which means that of the 35 that wound, 1 gets through his armor save on average but is likely warded off by the 5++, 6++, 6++.    

[Arkiham]

36 minutes ago, Thomas Lyons said:

This is the idea--to de-incentivize the opponent to leave him the hell alone ;-)

Edit: As an aside, the above assumed that I was not buffing the Harbinger or putting him on terrain at all.  With a mystic shield, I could easily get him to a 2+ rerollable (+1 mystic shield, +1 cover, reroll 1s from Sorc), which means that of the 35 that wound, 1 gets through his armor save on average but is likely warded off by the 5++, 6++, 6++.    

You could,  but those buffs and positioning would be better on units who need it. Buffing something which already isn't going to be targeted is a wasted buff. 

You want him to be on the cusp of being worthwhile attacking so not entirely pointless but not a sure thing 

[Nico]

Some concerns. The Harbinger doesn't get his aoe ward buff until after your first hero phase. So any alpha strike before that kills him relatively easily.

Kunning Rukk could be either D6+2 plus 5 plus 5 plus 18 inch range (maximum 36) or 10/15 plus 5 plus 18 (maximum 38) depending on Allegiance. Cunning Deceiver does help, but so does Damned Terrain (which will cost you the game every time they get any on their half). I've seen them take Damned Twice - lose 2 models and then be +3 to hit.

The bigger problem is the feeble offensive power and slowness of the list. Any Sylvaneth army will simply get to the objectives well before you and then let your low rend bounce off their rerollable saves. They don't need to kill your unkillable horde if they get in place first and you cannot scratch them either.

Also New-Escalation is catastrophic for Blight King lists. Might be better with Sayl. Objectives are so far apart and Monsters way back.

[Nico]

Also I fear that Fatesworn Warband can do the same thing, but with rend and summoning LoC on to zap stuff or Balewind plus Gaunt Summoner for some longer ranged threat. Catapults are ok, but less reliable (Destiny Dice).

[Thomas Lyons]

4 hours ago, Nico said:

Some concerns. The Harbinger doesn't get his aoe ward buff until after your first hero phase. So any alpha strike before that kills him relatively easily.

Kunning Rukk could be either D6+2 plus 5 plus 5 plus 18 inch range (maximum 36) or 10/15 plus 5 plus 18 (maximum 38) depending on Allegiance. Cunning Deceiver does help, but so does Damned Terrain (which will cost you the game every time they get any on their half). I've seen them take Damned Twice - lose 2 models and then be +3 to hit.

The bigger problem is the feeble offensive power and slowness of the list. Any Sylvaneth army will simply get to the objectives well before you and then let your low rend bounce off their rerollable saves. They don't need to kill your unkillable horde if they get in place first and you cannot scratch them either.

Also New-Escalation is catastrophic for Blight King lists. Might be better with Sayl. Objectives are so far apart and Monsters way back.

Good insights.  

In its current form, this is a one drop list.  They have to win the placement roll and then single drop to beat me.  I agree that any alpha strike kills him relatively easily but anything with more than 1 drop and I can take the top of turn 1 for buffs and a run across the table.  He is also buried in the lines and even deep strikers won't be able to get to him.  The only real threat is from a Sayl/Stormfiends list b/c of the 8" range, and even then I have 5++, 6++, 6++ for each of those mortal wounds.  

I fully agree that a ranged heavy army (which there are numerous) and a sylvaneth army are the biggest threats.  By going first, I do have the chance to drop a summon on a point for first claim, which my troops should be able to run to the point to continue to contest it, which puts the onus of clearing the point on the sylvaneth, something that won't be accomplished easily. (As an aside, I'm not sure how many sylvaneth are going to be there with the requirement that all painted models (including their forests) have to be on the display board; I suspect that will drive a number of players off).  

Regarding New-Escalation, I not so sure how terrible it is for my list.  Remember that Blightkings are Battleline in this list...they are up front on the 9" line from the get go. In fact, the Marauders, Chaos Warriors, and all 15 Blight Kings are starting on that line, with the general on the 18" line (9" back).  He should be able to move up and get in position with the run to support at least one set of units.  The mounted sorcerer has great mobility and reach with all of his spells so he'll easily be able to support from the 18" line.  Bloab and the Warshrine are in a little bit of a bad place but they aren't essential to the survivability (at least initially).  In fact, I quite like escalation for this list because, with it being one drop, and me planning on taking the top of 1, with -2 to hit that first round of melee, things are quite heavily tipped in my favor, especially if they aren't tracking all the debuffs.

I do agree this is not a tier 1 list, hence the "(semi)" part of the title.  It is likely a solid tier 3 or low tier 2 list, but the challenges are all the things one expects our of Nurgle (which is a bed I've made for myself).  I agree that Fatesworn will do all of this better (or most of it at least), but I won't have Tzeentch painted up.  It is what it is.  

Thanks for all the feedback.  You've given me a lot to think about.  This just reminds me how much we need a combined Nurgle Tome for some new options.  

[Pudding1989]

Maybe try and put a foulrain battalion from the pestilence book. Will do heavy damage to horses and long range handy for Kunning Rukks and other big units


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[Thomas Lyons]

 

On February 5, 2017 at 5:53 AM, Pudding1989 said:

Maybe try and put a foulrain battalion from the pestilence book. Will do heavy damage to horses and long range handy for Kunning Rukks and other big units


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I thought about it but the point investment of the battalion is way too high to work with what I was trying to do.  


So, thinking a little bit outside of the box, I've also came up with this list as an alternative:

Plaguetouched 2000

• 140      Harbinger (Cunning Deciver Trait, Chaos Talisman)

• 120      Mounted Chaos Sorcerer (Crown of Conquest)

• 200     Warshrine of Nurgle

• 360      10 Blightkings

• 180      10 Chaos Warriors

• 180      10 Chaos Warriors

• 180      28 Marauders

• 60        10 Marauders

• 140      Plaguetouched Warband

• 240     Belakor

• 100     5 Hellstriders of Slaanesh

• 100     5 Hellstriders of Slaanesh

This army is 4 drops, which undoubtably hurts it.  But it gains a hero with good damage (Belakor's 6 attacks at -2 rend) couple with 2 spells, solid mobility and fantastic defense (getting a 2+ rerollable, immune to rend isn't too difficult with him).  The two sets of 5 hell striders replace Bloab for broadcasting a -1 to hit penalty bubble (which I think stacks) and they have tremendous mobility.  Any alpha striking melee lists would have -4 to hit on turn 1 against the Nurgle units, and the Hellstriders would likely be buried in the Nurgle units.  The cost here is losing Bloab, going to 4 drops instead of 1, and Blightkings moving out of battleline (for Escalation, which admittedly sucks).

Does anyone know if they Hellstrider banners stack?

[Arkiham]

Yes, the wording allows it to stack, so small units of 5 are maybe best.

So two units of five grants a -2 to hit on the unit being attacked. If you run them one behind the other, this works when you both charge and when charged due to the range of the banner.

[Thomas Lyons]

2 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

Yes, the wording allows it to stack, so small units of 5 are maybe best.

So two units of five grants a -2 to hit on the unit being attacked. If you run them one behind the other, this works when you both charge and when charged due to the range of the banner.

Good good.  The idea would be to have them behind the Nurgle ranks so that their 6" aura overlaps with the other fights.  If they are in a big scrum, they'd be generating a -3 to hit on the Nurgle units.  Or they could split up and cause a -2 in two different fights.  Hmm.  There might be something here.