Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Jharen]

Curious as to what this means exactly.  Is it the same model from the starter box?  Is the model going to have two possible warscrolls then (Mighty Lord of Khorne and Korghos Khul)?  Are we getting matched play points with the release?

I imagine this model will sell a lot, simply for Flesh Hound models.

[Killax]

My best guess is that they will be the exact same models seperate from the starter. What could be a pitty however is that they don't use the exact full sprue for the Mighty Lord of Khorne that also includes the Bloodsecrator. Sprue of MLoK and Vandus:


The current sprues allready are very well set up to be sold seperately, I expect no real new models as such. It would be awesome if they did but Im quite certain they would have promoted it slightly more if it did include new models. The Warscroll will be new, so that's a big plus.

I do hope they will create it in a propper manner so that Khul can be part of The Goretide. With the way GW/FW is going with some of their Warscroll designs though I wouldn't be sure to say this is possible at all... Nontheless new Warscrolls are always a welcome edition. However again I have to say, Its good to be Khorne and Stormcast but man AoS can use some bumps in non-Chaos and non-Order aswell GW  

Cheers,

[RuneBrush]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

I do hope they will create it in a propper manner so that Khul can be part of The Goretide. With the way GW/FW is going with some of their Warscroll designs though I wouldn't be sure to say this is possible at all...

My guess is that he'll have the "Mighty Lord of Khorne" keyword in addition to "Korghus Khul".  Looking foward to seeing exactly what extra abilities he'll bring and matched play points too.

[Killax]

37 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

My guess is that he'll have the "Mighty Lord of Khorne" keyword in addition to "Korghus Khul".  Looking foward to seeing exactly what extra abilities he'll bring and matched play points too.

I do hope so too! Im expecting a different Command Ability and likely added movement for that part. Hopefully a good set of damage?

Its tough for named characters to compete with Generals. This is good imho but we do want Khul to be cool.

@Jharen mentioned Valkia before and to be honest I feel shes one of the few thats always interesting, largely due to her speed. Scyla, Skarr and even Skaarac or Mazarall all have a bit of cost/system related downside.

Scyla would be cool as non-Leader, Skarr returning is expensive as heck and Skaarac feels too army bending for 2K while at 360 Mazz just faces too much competition in viable alternate builds.

Though I feel blessed. One these days well see Khorne Dragon at FW preorder aswell!

Blood for the Blood God!!

[RuneBrush]

5 minutes ago, Killax said:

I do hope so too! Im expecting a different Command Ability and likely added movement for that part. Hopefully a good set of damage?

Its tough for named characters to compete with Generals. This is good imho but we do want Khul to be cool.

It's going to have to be good enough to balance the lack of artefact/command trait so will be very interesting as people tend not to run named characters as generals on the whole.

[TheOtherJosh]

Article Posted on BoLS:
Blades of Khorne: Dissecting the Slaughterpriest

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/06/blades-of-khorne-dissecting-the-slaughterpriest.html

[Killax]

Cool! Yeah loads of articles but I feel they are drippling slowely. Nontheless its always good for those who just started

I still hope FW will put that darned Dragon up this month

[Jharen]

My hope is that Khul offers a command ability of Running and Charging in the same turn for mortal khorne.  We have it for daemons via the WoK Bloodthirster and I think it'd really help us close that initial gap in the first turn with mortal forces, especially when paired with a bloodstoker.  Even if I didn't run Khul as a general, that sort of command ability would have me using a slaughterpriest to pray for Bloodtithes just to use that command ability.

[kozokus]

You better hope for him beeing playable in matched play. Getting points and all.

Lore-related things tend to be not playable in matched play   (did i say i wanted a point cost for Brotherhood of the Great Bolts?)

[Killax]

1 hour ago, Jharen said:

My hope is that Khul offers a command ability of Running and Charging in the same turn for mortal khorne.  We have it for daemons via the WoK Bloodthirster and I think it'd really help us close that initial gap in the first turn with mortal forces, especially when paired with a bloodstoker.  Even if I didn't run Khul as a general, that sort of command ability would have me using a slaughterpriest to pray for Bloodtithes just to use that command ability.

Absolutely, dare I hope two or three units to be affected even. But well see. A D6" push like The Goretide would be cool too.

In general I dont worry about playability too much if its not too off base cost.

Skarr, Scyla and Skaarac are playable and dont have poor designs to me but you have to factor in what you "lose" for it. Though Blood Tithe fixes a lot here too. 

My Valkia hunts, kills and dies quickly but thats a distraction that works to get others upfield. Skaarac with some Khorgoraths is better as ever. Skarr remains a cool bomb but his speed makes him less of a priority. Mazarall just has too much Bloodthirster competition at his cost and other as heavy blows still isnt 360 points hard to remove. 12 wounds is just really not 14

[Jharen]

Spikeybits post is reporting that the Mighty Lord of Khorne will come packaged with a Bloodsecrator, according to industry retailers.  Good news if it's true, which seems to be extremely plausible given how the sprue in the Starter Box was.  Also the new starter box 'Thunder and Blood' that we saw previewed earlier this year is due to go up for pre-order at the same time.

Bloodsecrator and MLoK = $40 USD

Thunder and Blood = $80 USD

[Killax]

Hey that full sprue would be very cool to sell in a box! Happy days! 

[TheOtherJosh]

Why do blades of khorne mortals require so many leaders?

 

In BoK, the daemon warscroll battalions can all be made at lower Pitched Battle sizes (or even at all) whereas the large Khorne Mortal battalions sometimes require a minimum of 14 leader models.

 

(Basically anything that requires the Gorechosen warscroll battalion.)

 

Is it that those just aren't taken in normal pitched battle games?

 

[Jharen]

33 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Why do blades of khorne mortals require so many leaders?

 

In BoK, the daemon warscroll battalions can all be made at lower Pitched Battle sizes (or even at all) whereas the large Khorne Mortal battalions sometimes require a minimum of 14 leader models.

 

(Basically anything that requires the Gorechosen warscroll battalion.)

 

Is it that those just aren't taken in normal pitched battle games?

 

Not sure I follow what you mean here.

The only Mortal battalion that REQUIRES the Gorechosen battalion is the Bloodbound Warhorde.  It is optional in the others.

The larger Daemon battalions are extremely difficult to run at any point cost due to how many battalions they require you to take.

The regular battalions for both Mortal and Daemon are about on equal grounds as to how many of them are affordable at lower point games.

 

[Gotrek]

Rules question: goretide battalion says i can take 3-7 battallions from a list (relevant here is gore pilgrims and the skullcrusher one) and it says i can take any number of additional battalions. Could i take just 2 of the battalions from the 3-7 list with the "any number of additional battalions" clause? I really like the goretide but cant fit a 5th battalion into a 2k list.

[RuneBrush]

17 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

Rules question: goretide battalion says i can take 3-7 battallions from a list (relevant here is gore pilgrims and the skullcrusher one) and it says i can take any number of additional battalions. Could i take just 2 of the battalions from the 3-7 list with the "any number of additional battalions" clause? I really like the goretide but cant fit a 5th battalion into a 2k list.

Short answer is no.

Longer answer.  Goretide states "Any number of additional Khorne Bloodbound units or warscroll battalions".  Sadly (by design or accident), none of the battalions in the Blades of Khorne book are keyworded "Khorne Bloodbound", instead they just have the "Khorne" keyword.  This means that if you wanted to field Gore Pilgrims or Brass Sampede, you couldn't include them as part of The Goretide.  I'm hoping it'll be FAQ'd to confirm if this is by design or not in the near future.

On a related note, you're likely going to struggle to run Goretide (+Slaughterborn), Gore Pilgrims and Brass Stampede.  The base cost is 2050 on it's own:

Quote

Exalted Deathbringer (80)
Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
Bloodsecrator (120)
Slaughterpriest (100)
Slaughterpriest (100)
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)
3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
5 x Blood Warriors (100)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
5 x Skullreapers (140)
5 x Skullreapers (140)
Gore Pilgrims (80)
Brass Stampede (80)
The Goretide (40)
Slaughterborn (80)

Total: 2050/2000

 

[Killax]

6 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

Why do blades of khorne mortals require so many leaders?

 

In BoK, the daemon warscroll battalions can all be made at lower Pitched Battle sizes (or even at all) whereas the large Khorne Mortal battalions sometimes require a minimum of 14 leader models.

 

(Basically anything that requires the Gorechosen warscroll battalion.)

 

Is it that those just aren't taken in normal pitched battle games?

 

They have so many leaders to flesh out Khorne as a real army. I do agree that some could have shaired the Warscroll due to weapon choices but it is what it is. There are slight differences between the Aspiring Deathbringers or Exalted Deathbringers for example.

Larger Battalions often require larger points to be played. The idea in BoK is that Daemons function as a swarm and Bloodbound are largely semi-elite soldiers. This means that Daemons will be easier to have in larger numbers but generally also have worse commanders. This is reflected very well because all Heralds do not have a Command Ability, are cheap and the moment you do want to have a good commander you really will need a Bloodthirster. The costs in Bloodbound are much more leveled and Heroes are much more supportive.

Gorechosen is made for normal pitched battle games but Age of Sigmar isn't made exclusively for matched point play. In addition there are very few Battalions who actually require you to include the Gorechosen Battalion...

24 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

Rules question: goretide battalion says i can take 3-7 battallions from a list (relevant here is gore pilgrims and the skullcrusher one) and it says i can take any number of additional battalions. Could i take just 2 of the battalions from the 3-7 list with the "any number of additional battalions" clause? I really like the goretide but cant fit a 5th battalion into a 2k list.

It specifically states X named Battalions, who are Khorne Battalions and it states that you can add Khorne Bloodbound Battalions in any number. There are currently two Khorne Bloodbound Battalions left. These are Goreblade Warband and Bloodstorm.

So what is going on here is that:
1. You can thake any number of Battalions, though they arn't and do not have to be part of The Goretide
2. You may thake minimum 3, maximum 7 named Battalions from that list. These are Khorne Battalions found in the BoK pages before The Goretide.
3. You may thake any number of Khorne Bloodbound Units and Khorne Bloodbound Battalions, there are quite some Khorne Bloodbound Units but not a lot of Khorne Bloodbound Battalions. 

What seems to continiously confuse players here is that additional Battalions can be thaken regardless of anything in this case but these will not also gain the benifits of The Goretide all to easily. This is a good thing because it means GW intends to factor in balanced design.

As an example of what you can do:
- Thake The Goretide, Slaughterborn will always be part of this Battalion and thus gain the benifits.
- Thake The Goretide, Slaughterborn and minimum 3 other Battalions from the named list (which is very hard to do for competative 2K builds).
- Thake The Goretide, Slaughterborn and have Brass Stampede as a seperate Battalion. The moment you do this your Brass Stampede battalion will not gain the benifits from The Goretide.

In any case, I expect the question to come up as a monthly thing now because we've seen it before and again and again  The only reason as to why it's confusing has to do with the fact that in no way shape or form does it refer to Khorne Bloodbound Battalions while they still do excist and have a cost aswell.

[Gotrek]

I figured as much but i was hoping i could make it work. Thanks for keeping me honest guys.

[Killax]

53 minutes ago, Gotrek said:

I figured as much but i was hoping i could make it work. Thanks for keeping me honest guys.

Well no worries! The thing is that The Goretide works perfectly well as is. You just have to like the idea that your running at least 30 Blood Warriors and 10 Skullreapers. This whole set up is very solid however and The Goretide from a speed perspective is amazing because the additional movement does not stop and the additional bonus to the Mighty Lord of Khorne makes him a Hero most certainly woth 140 points and honestly can defeat well beyond his own costs, which further allows you to view these two Battalions as 120 points but in practicle feel like less due to the drastical advantages gained.

Really the only "downside" to The Goretide is that you have little to no reason to not go mono-Bloodbound. Brass Stampede and Gore Pilgrims are all really cool Battalions for example but the most basic of troops and Heroes will start to work really well the moment you simply gain +d6" movement. It translates to going from movement 5-6 to 8-9 to me, which means it's "fast enough". The same applies to Murderhost, once down that route there is little to no reason to not continue building 90+ Bloodletters as the core of your army.

[TheOtherJosh]

@RuneBrush ... that is a bunch of models.

 

Thanks for the elaboration. [emoji4]

 

As a side note, if you pull the exact same warscroll battalion from the Khorne Bloodbound battletome it is labeled "Khorne Bloodbound"

 

I would assume that given the FAQ regarding using which ever version of a warscroll you prefer (older or newer) would mean that you could use them without an issue. But YMMV.

[RuneBrush]

5 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

@RuneBrush ... that is a bunch of models.

Thanks for the elaboration.

As a side note, if you pull the exact same warscroll battalion from the Khorne Bloodbound battletome it is labeled "Khorne Bloodbound"

I would assume that given the FAQ regarding using which ever version of a warscroll you prefer (older or newer) would mean that you could use them without an issue. But YMMV.

No problems.  In theory you could - it's down to you on what warscrolls/battalions you decide to run with.  The general consensus tends to be that if you're using the latest Battletome, then you use that for the warscrolls/battalions unless they doesn't exist in there.  So if you're running a Khorne Allegiance army using the Blades of Khorne Battletome, you'd be using the updated Mighty Lord, Slaugtherpriest, etc Warscrolls rather than the older (and in cases more powerful) Warscrolls.

[Killax]

Agreed, though I would prefer using updated Warscrolls all the time. The confusion that occurs to me is having to check out sources, old costs etc. The moment things get mixed up but still have two of the same models with two different rulessets is rather confusing. Same applies to the use of the Battalions. If they gain or lose Keywords it's often done for a balancing purpose. Sure it would be cool to have everything in the Goretide, D6" movement onto anything makes anything better, but the purpose of the design is to show that Khul is really good in leading Bloodbound, has technical acces to Daemons but doesn't "require them". 

Ive been going back and forth on many lists but have made a list I want to use for a longer period of time, mainly because 40K is comming up and I want to have good acces to both systems due to 40K having some great use for Daemons aswell.
 

Quote

WoK Bloodthirster, Immense Power, Deathdealer (General)
Bloodsecrator
Bloodsecrator
Skullmaster, Herald of Khorne, The Crimson Crown

30 Bloodletters
30 Bloodletters
30 Bloodletters

5 Wrathmongers
5 Skullreapers
10 Marauders of Chaos

Murderhost

Battalions: 1
Total: 2000/2000

Would love to hear some opinions on this build! The things Im uncertain about is if it's worth it to go the Bloodthirster route versus more ranged heavy forces. As an example Im quite certain 15 Skyfires isnt somethng Im very well equiped for because the moment the lights go down on the Bloodthirster quickly a lot of the points invested into him I would rather have invested into another Hero... The dilemma... Khorne doesn't have great Heroes for mixed armies  

All in all I do believe the force will do fine, next to it Ill also tinker on with The Goretide so that the last 30 Bloodletter orso wont bore me to death. That list still very comfortably forms itself.

So my questin to the tournament veterans, do you think the force contains to few units? 
Should I split up one block of 30 Bloodletters to three of 10 Bloodletters?
Should I run a WoK Bloodthirster at all or is it just too big of a target easily removed?

Many thanks for your thoughts!

[kozokus]

I am by no mean a tournament grizzled veteran but i have my own experience against *quite* similar builds.

40 minutes ago, Killax said:

Should I split up one block of 30 Bloodletters to three of 10 Bloodletters?

Letters are extremly EXTREMLY tedious to remove by 30 and require a lot of investment, 10 man demons squads may be easier to maneuver but are twice less dangerous, you are better served with 10 marauders if you want something to do the job of a 10 man squad.

45 minutes ago, Killax said:

Should I run a WoK Bloodthirster at all or is it just too big of a target easily removed?

I am happy when i face one because he costs as much as 3 bloodsecrators or another unit of 30 bloodletter plus 10 maraudeurs and is far easier to removethan thoses two with adapted Mortal wounds/high rend wargear that everyone posess.

Let's be honest, you are the aggro player (MTG get out of me!), you don't have a reliable way of having a onedrop army that would let you choose who's starting the game and even with murderhost+run and charge from WOKBT, you are unlikely to turn1 charge the ennemy (i know it makes 24.5" threat range on average, but it is only one unit, it is unreliable and constructing your strategy on the basis that your opponent is stupid enough to deploy in range is not a good option).

However, with multiple bloodstokers, you are in a much better position to turn2 charge the ennemy with all your army (whipping all your letters would place them on average 19-20" from where they started on turn 1). Thoses stokers flood the board with cheap heroes unworthy of attention compared to the big guy. Thoses stokers also have an impact after the first clash, rerolling 1' to wound is nothing to despise. In that position, you have flooded the center of the table with a hundred of bravery 10 bloodletters, you are unlikely to loose the controle of objectives for several turns.

Compared to other Thirsters, the WOK has put the 60 extra points all into offence but is as easy to kill than the 280 point one. All you gained was extra chopiness on range only, a one-unit command ability and a dispell with +2.

On another aspect, you are a horde army. You makes things easier for your opponent if things comes to him with différent speed levels. The priority targets are obvious.

Short answer : i would follow the advice of Terry Pike when he said he should have removed his MLoK and WOKBT (even if he made 9th in the big tournament with it)

1 hour ago, Killax said:

So my questin to the tournament veterans, do you think the force contains to few units? 

I don't have any argumented answer on this one but given what you started, i would go hardcore on hordes of bloodletters, wrathmongers and cheap buffing heroes, a lot .

 

As reluctant as i am to field Gore pilgrims, this is maybe the best place to have that formation. Large unbreakable units with benefits from +1 to hit, a hidden 30" banner that cover the table while the other one is running/attracting attention/giving you bloodtithe points. It seems good.

 

Has anyone thought that Bloodstokers are a perfect universal chaos incarnation? Bloody as Khorne, Fat as Nurgle, Whippy as Slaanesh and they manupulate other to do the dirty work like Tzeentch. Oh and you can scream "Fat neckbeard master race" all you want.

 

[Killax]

Thanks, it can and likely will become:

MLoK

Bloodsec

Bloodsec

Bloodsec

Bloodstok

Skullmaster

30 Bloodletters

30 Bloodletters

30 Bloodletters

5 Skullreapers

5 Skullreapers

10 Chaos Marauders

10 Chaos Marauders

Murderhost

2000/2000

Prime reason its no Gore Pilgrims for me is because it doesnt go fast enough for me personally. 1 Slaughterpriest has to babysit the Priest  

[Killax]

Well... Khorgos Khul is in the app... My guess is that he will be 160 points, ideally he is 140 but I don't expect it.

If you ever wanted a second Mighty Lord of Khorne I guess he's an option, Aqshy's Bane is the only new thing on him, this allows him to pile in up to 8"and re-roll all failed hit rolls, including those of Grizzlemaw. Other than that he has the Reality Splitting Axe, Collar of Khorne and Gore Lord, which does what Gorelord does lol.

 

So what do I think about him? Well I can see that the creativity wasnt with him  . He's basically a MLoK who doesn't have acces to Artefacts, such as Mark of the Destroyer.

Personally I hoped for his Command Ability to be different. Something that actively would have looked for Monsters and Heroes to 'batt;e. After all he is looking for the skull of an immortal to ascend to Daemonhood.

What could have been cooler? Have the Command Ability be Hungry for Glory on up to 2 or 3 units.