kozokus Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I am by no mean a tournament grizzled veteran but i have my own experience against *quite* similar builds. 40 minutes ago, Killax said: Should I split up one block of 30 Bloodletters to three of 10 Bloodletters? Letters are extremly EXTREMLY tedious to remove by 30 and require a lot of investment, 10 man demons squads may be easier to maneuver but are twice less dangerous, you are better served with 10 marauders if you want something to do the job of a 10 man squad. 45 minutes ago, Killax said: Should I run a WoK Bloodthirster at all or is it just too big of a target easily removed? I am happy when i face one because he costs as much as 3 bloodsecrators or another unit of 30 bloodletter plus 10 maraudeurs and is far easier to removethan thoses two with adapted Mortal wounds/high rend wargear that everyone posess. Let's be honest, you are the aggro player (MTG get out of me!), you don't have a reliable way of having a onedrop army that would let you choose who's starting the game and even with murderhost+run and charge from WOKBT, you are unlikely to turn1 charge the ennemy (i know it makes 24.5" threat range on average, but it is only one unit, it is unreliable and constructing your strategy on the basis that your opponent is stupid enough to deploy in range is not a good option). However, with multiple bloodstokers, you are in a much better position to turn2 charge the ennemy with all your army (whipping all your letters would place them on average 19-20" from where they started on turn 1). Thoses stokers flood the board with cheap heroes unworthy of attention compared to the big guy. Thoses stokers also have an impact after the first clash, rerolling 1' to wound is nothing to despise. In that position, you have flooded the center of the table with a hundred of bravery 10 bloodletters, you are unlikely to loose the controle of objectives for several turns. Compared to other Thirsters, the WOK has put the 60 extra points all into offence but is as easy to kill than the 280 point one. All you gained was extra chopiness on range only, a one-unit command ability and a dispell with +2. On another aspect, you are a horde army. You makes things easier for your opponent if things comes to him with différent speed levels. The priority targets are obvious. Short answer : i would follow the advice of Terry Pike when he said he should have removed his MLoK and WOKBT (even if he made 9th in the big tournament with it) 1 hour ago, Killax said: So my questin to the tournament veterans, do you think the force contains to few units? I don't have any argumented answer on this one but given what you started, i would go hardcore on hordes of bloodletters, wrathmongers and cheap buffing heroes, a lot . As reluctant as i am to field Gore pilgrims, this is maybe the best place to have that formation. Large unbreakable units with benefits from +1 to hit, a hidden 30" banner that cover the table while the other one is running/attracting attention/giving you bloodtithe points. It seems good. Has anyone thought that Bloodstokers are a perfect universal chaos incarnation? Bloody as Khorne, Fat as Nurgle, Whippy as Slaanesh and they manupulate other to do the dirty work like Tzeentch. Oh and you can scream "Fat neckbeard master race" all you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Thanks, it can and likely will become: MLoK Bloodsec Bloodsec Bloodsec Bloodstok Skullmaster 30 Bloodletters 30 Bloodletters 30 Bloodletters 5 Skullreapers 5 Skullreapers 10 Chaos Marauders 10 Chaos Marauders Murderhost 2000/2000 Prime reason its no Gore Pilgrims for me is because it doesnt go fast enough for me personally. 1 Slaughterpriest has to babysit the Priest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Well... Khorgos Khul is in the app... My guess is that he will be 160 points, ideally he is 140 but I don't expect it. If you ever wanted a second Mighty Lord of Khorne I guess he's an option, Aqshy's Bane is the only new thing on him, this allows him to pile in up to 8"and re-roll all failed hit rolls, including those of Grizzlemaw. Other than that he has the Reality Splitting Axe, Collar of Khorne and Gore Lord, which does what Gorelord does lol. So what do I think about him? Well I can see that the creativity wasnt with him . He's basically a MLoK who doesn't have acces to Artefacts, such as Mark of the Destroyer. Personally I hoped for his Command Ability to be different. Something that actively would have looked for Monsters and Heroes to 'batt;e. After all he is looking for the skull of an immortal to ascend to Daemonhood. What could have been cooler? Have the Command Ability be Hungry for Glory on up to 2 or 3 units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, Killax said: Well... Khorgos Khul is in the app... My guess is that he will be 160 points, ideally he is 140 but I don't expect it. If you ever wanted a second Mighty Lord of Khorne I guess he's an option, Aqshy's Bane is the only new thing on him, this allows him to pile in up to 8"and re-roll all failed hit rolls, including those of Grizzlemaw. Other than that he has the Reality Splitting Axe, Collar of Khorne and Gore Lord, which does what Gorelord does lol. So what do I think about him? Well I can see that the creativity wasnt with him . He's basically a MLoK who doesn't have acces to Artefacts, such as Mark of the Destroyer. Personally I hoped for his Command Ability to be different. Something that actively would have looked for Monsters and Heroes to 'batt;e. After all he is looking for the skull of an immortal to ascend to Daemonhood. What could have been cooler? Have the Command Ability be Hungry for Glory on up to 2 or 3 units. I've yet to see his cost, but I expect him to be the same cost, as you have to take him if running goretide, so does this as act as a nerf for that battalion His ability to be able to move and attack from 8" away in your hero phase is strong, doubles his attacks. Over all I like him, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 He's not got as good scroll as vandus did though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Nvm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 25 minutes ago, Arkiham said: I've yet to see his cost, but I expect him to be the same cost, as you have to take him if running goretide, so does this as act as a nerf for that battalion His ability to be able to move and attack from 8" away in your hero phase is strong, doubles his attacks. Over all I like him, If he's 140 I'll give him a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Killax said: Oh man, this is the best. It depends on his cost though... The Goretide, just play two Khul. 2 Khul 4 School. Named character, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Arkiham said: Named character, The Goretide doesn't turn the Mighty Lord of Khorne into a named character. There is a suggestion left that doesn't confirm anything. It's just a Mighty Lord of Khorne gaining Aqshy's Bane aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 Just now, Killax said: The Goretide doesn't turn the Mighty Lord of Khorne into a named character. It does, his scroll says you have to run him. If you run goretide battalion then kul must be taken not the exact quote but yea, you must take him and he's a named character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Arkiham said: It does, his scroll says you have to run him. If you run goretide battalion then kul must be taken not the exact quote but yea, you must take him and he's a named character Sorry missed it! In that case, still no real fan of him. In any case, he can be a decent guy if the cost is right, the thing is I dont expect him to be 140-160 anymore since the FW Mazarall / Greater Daemon stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Soo ehh @Arkiham we now have a model who can gain Aqshy's Bane twice, what do you think this means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Note that his reality splitting axe now work in all phases after his attacks, so he can one shot things during your hero phase or even the hero ennemy phase with blood tithe ! the bloodsecrator came back to his old wording with the rage of khorne too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Killax said: Soo ehh @Arkiham we now have a model who can gain Aqshy's Bane twice, what do you think this means? I don't think it works twice, just allows him to use it outside the goretide Note, you can run him solo just fine, don't need a battalion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Arkiham said: I don't think it works twice, just allows him to use it outside the goretide Note, you can run him solo just fine, don't need a battalion And what happens if you include another MLoK in The Goretide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Killax said: And what happens if you include another MLoK in The Goretide? Well, it hints towards being the guy who is leading it, so the manadatory mighty lord, so, just khul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 15 minutes ago, Arkiham said: Well, it hints towards being the guy who is leading it, so the manadatory mighty lord, so, just khul Well not really, as it doesnt say it has to be the General, it just refers to a Mighty Lord. In any case, for the sake of sanity, lets assume that somehow Khul is not given Aqshy's Bane twice and such... Still the wording is such a mess... 30 minutes ago, ledha said: the bloodsecrator came back to his old wording with the rage of khorne too Deleted and downloaded the warscroll again but it's still the same BoK wording. Which still adds 1 attack for each time you are affected because it doesn't state otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Killax said: Well not really, as it doesnt say it has to be the General, it just refers to a Mighty Lord. In any case, for the sake of sanity, lets assume that somehow Khul is not given Aqshy's Bane twice and such... Still the wording is such a mess... Deleted and downloaded the warscroll again but it's still the same BoK wording. Which still adds 1 attack for each time you are affected because it doesn't state otherwise. on games workshop website : https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads/Korghos_Bloodsecrator_CB_Web - cropped.pdf i think they just didn't changed right no the warscroll i don't think khorgos gain aqshy bane, because it the "normal" mighty ord of khorne who gain it. Since it's replaced by khorgos (who is not a normal mighty lord of khorne), khorgos don't gain it. Luckily, he has it in his warscroll, so it doesn't nerf him or the goretide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, ledha said: on games workshop website : https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Downloads/Korghos_Bloodsecrator_CB_Web - cropped.pdf i think they just didn't changed right no the warscroll i don't think khorgos gain aqshy bane, because it the "normal" mighty ord of khorne who gain it. Since it's replaced by khorgos (who is not a normal mighty lord of khorne), khorgos don't gain it. Luckily, he has it in his warscroll, so it doesn't nerf him or the goretide Hmmm well figure it out locally AoS is back again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 51 minutes ago, Killax said: Well not really, as it doesnt say it has to be the General, it just refers to a Mighty Lord. In any case, for the sake of sanity, lets assume that somehow Khul is not given Aqshy's Bane twice and such... Still the wording is such a mess... Deleted and downloaded the warscroll again but it's still the same BoK wording. Which still adds 1 attack for each time you are affected because it doesn't state otherwise. It says the goretides mighty Lord of .... So it's the mandatory one. Not every single one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 I sure hope that GHB2 says that we can give named characters Command Traits, because while I can excuse the loss of an artifact in trade for a handy ability like Aqshy's Bane (I'll just give the extra artifact to another hero, not much loss), the command trait is lost all together when taking these supposed 'great heroic commanders' in our armies and making them our general. It just doesn't feel right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 So for khul he gets to move for goretide and then move in hero phase, then move then charge...and then pile in lol. Guy is so fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 An 8" pile in is really circumstantial though in my experience. You still have to be within 3" of an enemy to even use it. It's far from useless, but also far from being a free 8" move as it's quite easy for your opponent to just lock it down and requires you to be extremely picky with your placement of him. Unless I'm missing something and his 8" pile in ignores the normal rules for piling in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Jharen said: An 8" pile in is really circumstantial though in my experience. You still have to be within 3" of an enemy to even use it. It's far from useless, but also far from being a free 8" move as it's quite easy for your opponent to just lock it down and requires you to be extremely picky with your placement of him. Unless I'm missing something and his 8" pile in ignores the normal rules for piling in. Normally if you make a successful charge you can pile in, 3" or not. That's the normal conditions for pile in, he has a rule which says he can pile in and attack in your hero phase. So he can just do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Arkiham said: Normally if you make a successful charge you can pile in, 3" or not. That's the normal conditions for pile in, he has a ruke which says he can pile in and attack in your hero phase. So he can just do it. So he can pile in and move 8" even if he's not within 3" of enemy unit as that's the norm for piling in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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