Jharen Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I feel like they're coming up with the point cost for these named heroes by accounting for their abilities and items, without taking into consideration that we're giving up artifacts and/or traits by taking them to begin with. Our ability to give command traits and artifacts to heroes inherently devalues the taking of most names characters unless they're bringing something extremely unique to the table. In the case of Mazarall for instance, there's just nothing there that's unique or special, and all we end up with is a hero with pre-selected artifacts that we're having to essentially pay points for. We can do everything he offers for cheaper by taking other heroes and using free artifacts and traits. Valkia is a good example of a hero that provides a unique service to Khorne armies (fast,flying,small foot print) while remaining very points effective for what you get from her. Skarbrand is another prime example of a name character where you're being provided something very unique for your points. Skarr Bloodwrath feels like an 80 point hero but is being costed at 120 due to an ability that in fact costs us reinforcement points to even use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Yeah that plays a part too I guess. The reason for costing though from my perspective is that someone at Fw making these costs isnt part of a larger Gw or GH team. This sounds simple but it happens often in games, multiple creators not discussing much lead to odd costs. If Mazarall did have 14 wounds Id even wouldnt mind 360 too much, though 340 would make more sence. In addition I think FW also has more priority in creating cool models. The guy who did a brilliant Wfb book recently passed too so maby they just dont know how to handle AoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Curious as to what this means exactly. Is it the same model from the starter box? Is the model going to have two possible warscrolls then (Mighty Lord of Khorne and Korghos Khul)? Are we getting matched play points with the release? I imagine this model will sell a lot, simply for Flesh Hound models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 My best guess is that they will be the exact same models seperate from the starter. What could be a pitty however is that they don't use the exact full sprue for the Mighty Lord of Khorne that also includes the Bloodsecrator. Sprue of MLoK and Vandus: The current sprues allready are very well set up to be sold seperately, I expect no real new models as such. It would be awesome if they did but Im quite certain they would have promoted it slightly more if it did include new models. The Warscroll will be new, so that's a big plus. I do hope they will create it in a propper manner so that Khul can be part of The Goretide. With the way GW/FW is going with some of their Warscroll designs though I wouldn't be sure to say this is possible at all... Nontheless new Warscrolls are always a welcome edition. However again I have to say, Its good to be Khorne and Stormcast but man AoS can use some bumps in non-Chaos and non-Order aswell GW Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Killax said: I do hope they will create it in a propper manner so that Khul can be part of The Goretide. With the way GW/FW is going with some of their Warscroll designs though I wouldn't be sure to say this is possible at all... My guess is that he'll have the "Mighty Lord of Khorne" keyword in addition to "Korghus Khul". Looking foward to seeing exactly what extra abilities he'll bring and matched play points too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 37 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: My guess is that he'll have the "Mighty Lord of Khorne" keyword in addition to "Korghus Khul". Looking foward to seeing exactly what extra abilities he'll bring and matched play points too. I do hope so too! Im expecting a different Command Ability and likely added movement for that part. Hopefully a good set of damage? Its tough for named characters to compete with Generals. This is good imho but we do want Khul to be cool. @Jharen mentioned Valkia before and to be honest I feel shes one of the few thats always interesting, largely due to her speed. Scyla, Skarr and even Skaarac or Mazarall all have a bit of cost/system related downside. Scyla would be cool as non-Leader, Skarr returning is expensive as heck and Skaarac feels too army bending for 2K while at 360 Mazz just faces too much competition in viable alternate builds. Though I feel blessed. One these days well see Khorne Dragon at FW preorder aswell! Blood for the Blood God!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Killax said: I do hope so too! Im expecting a different Command Ability and likely added movement for that part. Hopefully a good set of damage? Its tough for named characters to compete with Generals. This is good imho but we do want Khul to be cool. It's going to have to be good enough to balance the lack of artefact/command trait so will be very interesting as people tend not to run named characters as generals on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Article Posted on BoLS:Blades of Khorne: Dissecting the Slaughterpriesthttp://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/06/blades-of-khorne-dissecting-the-slaughterpriest.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Cool! Yeah loads of articles but I feel they are drippling slowely. Nontheless its always good for those who just started I still hope FW will put that darned Dragon up this month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 My hope is that Khul offers a command ability of Running and Charging in the same turn for mortal khorne. We have it for daemons via the WoK Bloodthirster and I think it'd really help us close that initial gap in the first turn with mortal forces, especially when paired with a bloodstoker. Even if I didn't run Khul as a general, that sort of command ability would have me using a slaughterpriest to pray for Bloodtithes just to use that command ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kozokus Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 You better hope for him beeing playable in matched play. Getting points and all. Lore-related things tend to be not playable in matched play (did i say i wanted a point cost for Brotherhood of the Great Bolts?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Jharen said: My hope is that Khul offers a command ability of Running and Charging in the same turn for mortal khorne. We have it for daemons via the WoK Bloodthirster and I think it'd really help us close that initial gap in the first turn with mortal forces, especially when paired with a bloodstoker. Even if I didn't run Khul as a general, that sort of command ability would have me using a slaughterpriest to pray for Bloodtithes just to use that command ability. Absolutely, dare I hope two or three units to be affected even. But well see. A D6" push like The Goretide would be cool too. In general I dont worry about playability too much if its not too off base cost. Skarr, Scyla and Skaarac are playable and dont have poor designs to me but you have to factor in what you "lose" for it. Though Blood Tithe fixes a lot here too. My Valkia hunts, kills and dies quickly but thats a distraction that works to get others upfield. Skaarac with some Khorgoraths is better as ever. Skarr remains a cool bomb but his speed makes him less of a priority. Mazarall just has too much Bloodthirster competition at his cost and other as heavy blows still isnt 360 points hard to remove. 12 wounds is just really not 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Spikeybits post is reporting that the Mighty Lord of Khorne will come packaged with a Bloodsecrator, according to industry retailers. Good news if it's true, which seems to be extremely plausible given how the sprue in the Starter Box was. Also the new starter box 'Thunder and Blood' that we saw previewed earlier this year is due to go up for pre-order at the same time. Bloodsecrator and MLoK = $40 USD Thunder and Blood = $80 USD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Hey that full sprue would be very cool to sell in a box! Happy days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Why do blades of khorne mortals require so many leaders? In BoK, the daemon warscroll battalions can all be made at lower Pitched Battle sizes (or even at all) whereas the large Khorne Mortal battalions sometimes require a minimum of 14 leader models. (Basically anything that requires the Gorechosen warscroll battalion.) Is it that those just aren't taken in normal pitched battle games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jharen Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 33 minutes ago, TheOtherJosh said: Why do blades of khorne mortals require so many leaders? In BoK, the daemon warscroll battalions can all be made at lower Pitched Battle sizes (or even at all) whereas the large Khorne Mortal battalions sometimes require a minimum of 14 leader models. (Basically anything that requires the Gorechosen warscroll battalion.) Is it that those just aren't taken in normal pitched battle games? Not sure I follow what you mean here. The only Mortal battalion that REQUIRES the Gorechosen battalion is the Bloodbound Warhorde. It is optional in the others. The larger Daemon battalions are extremely difficult to run at any point cost due to how many battalions they require you to take. The regular battalions for both Mortal and Daemon are about on equal grounds as to how many of them are affordable at lower point games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotrek Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Rules question: goretide battalion says i can take 3-7 battallions from a list (relevant here is gore pilgrims and the skullcrusher one) and it says i can take any number of additional battalions. Could i take just 2 of the battalions from the 3-7 list with the "any number of additional battalions" clause? I really like the goretide but cant fit a 5th battalion into a 2k list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 17 minutes ago, Gotrek said: Rules question: goretide battalion says i can take 3-7 battallions from a list (relevant here is gore pilgrims and the skullcrusher one) and it says i can take any number of additional battalions. Could i take just 2 of the battalions from the 3-7 list with the "any number of additional battalions" clause? I really like the goretide but cant fit a 5th battalion into a 2k list. Short answer is no. Longer answer. Goretide states "Any number of additional Khorne Bloodbound units or warscroll battalions". Sadly (by design or accident), none of the battalions in the Blades of Khorne book are keyworded "Khorne Bloodbound", instead they just have the "Khorne" keyword. This means that if you wanted to field Gore Pilgrims or Brass Sampede, you couldn't include them as part of The Goretide. I'm hoping it'll be FAQ'd to confirm if this is by design or not in the near future. On a related note, you're likely going to struggle to run Goretide (+Slaughterborn), Gore Pilgrims and Brass Stampede. The base cost is 2050 on it's own: Quote Exalted Deathbringer (80)Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)Bloodsecrator (120)Slaughterpriest (100)Slaughterpriest (100)3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)3 x Mighty Skullcrushers (160)5 x Blood Warriors (100)5 x Blood Warriors (100)5 x Blood Warriors (100)5 x Blood Warriors (100)10 x Bloodreavers (70)5 x Skullreapers (140)5 x Skullreapers (140)Gore Pilgrims (80)Brass Stampede (80)The Goretide (40)Slaughterborn (80)Total: 2050/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 6 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said: Why do blades of khorne mortals require so many leaders? In BoK, the daemon warscroll battalions can all be made at lower Pitched Battle sizes (or even at all) whereas the large Khorne Mortal battalions sometimes require a minimum of 14 leader models. (Basically anything that requires the Gorechosen warscroll battalion.) Is it that those just aren't taken in normal pitched battle games? They have so many leaders to flesh out Khorne as a real army. I do agree that some could have shaired the Warscroll due to weapon choices but it is what it is. There are slight differences between the Aspiring Deathbringers or Exalted Deathbringers for example. Larger Battalions often require larger points to be played. The idea in BoK is that Daemons function as a swarm and Bloodbound are largely semi-elite soldiers. This means that Daemons will be easier to have in larger numbers but generally also have worse commanders. This is reflected very well because all Heralds do not have a Command Ability, are cheap and the moment you do want to have a good commander you really will need a Bloodthirster. The costs in Bloodbound are much more leveled and Heroes are much more supportive. Gorechosen is made for normal pitched battle games but Age of Sigmar isn't made exclusively for matched point play. In addition there are very few Battalions who actually require you to include the Gorechosen Battalion... 24 minutes ago, Gotrek said: Rules question: goretide battalion says i can take 3-7 battallions from a list (relevant here is gore pilgrims and the skullcrusher one) and it says i can take any number of additional battalions. Could i take just 2 of the battalions from the 3-7 list with the "any number of additional battalions" clause? I really like the goretide but cant fit a 5th battalion into a 2k list. It specifically states X named Battalions, who are Khorne Battalions and it states that you can add Khorne Bloodbound Battalions in any number. There are currently two Khorne Bloodbound Battalions left. These are Goreblade Warband and Bloodstorm. So what is going on here is that: 1. You can thake any number of Battalions, though they arn't and do not have to be part of The Goretide 2. You may thake minimum 3, maximum 7 named Battalions from that list. These are Khorne Battalions found in the BoK pages before The Goretide. 3. You may thake any number of Khorne Bloodbound Units and Khorne Bloodbound Battalions, there are quite some Khorne Bloodbound Units but not a lot of Khorne Bloodbound Battalions. What seems to continiously confuse players here is that additional Battalions can be thaken regardless of anything in this case but these will not also gain the benifits of The Goretide all to easily. This is a good thing because it means GW intends to factor in balanced design. As an example of what you can do: - Thake The Goretide, Slaughterborn will always be part of this Battalion and thus gain the benifits. - Thake The Goretide, Slaughterborn and minimum 3 other Battalions from the named list (which is very hard to do for competative 2K builds). - Thake The Goretide, Slaughterborn and have Brass Stampede as a seperate Battalion. The moment you do this your Brass Stampede battalion will not gain the benifits from The Goretide. In any case, I expect the question to come up as a monthly thing now because we've seen it before and again and again The only reason as to why it's confusing has to do with the fact that in no way shape or form does it refer to Khorne Bloodbound Battalions while they still do excist and have a cost aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotrek Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I figured as much but i was hoping i could make it work. Thanks for keeping me honest guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 53 minutes ago, Gotrek said: I figured as much but i was hoping i could make it work. Thanks for keeping me honest guys. Well no worries! The thing is that The Goretide works perfectly well as is. You just have to like the idea that your running at least 30 Blood Warriors and 10 Skullreapers. This whole set up is very solid however and The Goretide from a speed perspective is amazing because the additional movement does not stop and the additional bonus to the Mighty Lord of Khorne makes him a Hero most certainly woth 140 points and honestly can defeat well beyond his own costs, which further allows you to view these two Battalions as 120 points but in practicle feel like less due to the drastical advantages gained. Really the only "downside" to The Goretide is that you have little to no reason to not go mono-Bloodbound. Brass Stampede and Gore Pilgrims are all really cool Battalions for example but the most basic of troops and Heroes will start to work really well the moment you simply gain +d6" movement. It translates to going from movement 5-6 to 8-9 to me, which means it's "fast enough". The same applies to Murderhost, once down that route there is little to no reason to not continue building 90+ Bloodletters as the core of your army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOtherJosh Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 @RuneBrush ... that is a bunch of models. Thanks for the elaboration. [emoji4] As a side note, if you pull the exact same warscroll battalion from the Khorne Bloodbound battletome it is labeled "Khorne Bloodbound" I would assume that given the FAQ regarding using which ever version of a warscroll you prefer (older or newer) would mean that you could use them without an issue. But YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 5 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said: @RuneBrush ... that is a bunch of models. Thanks for the elaboration. As a side note, if you pull the exact same warscroll battalion from the Khorne Bloodbound battletome it is labeled "Khorne Bloodbound" I would assume that given the FAQ regarding using which ever version of a warscroll you prefer (older or newer) would mean that you could use them without an issue. But YMMV. No problems. In theory you could - it's down to you on what warscrolls/battalions you decide to run with. The general consensus tends to be that if you're using the latest Battletome, then you use that for the warscrolls/battalions unless they doesn't exist in there. So if you're running a Khorne Allegiance army using the Blades of Khorne Battletome, you'd be using the updated Mighty Lord, Slaugtherpriest, etc Warscrolls rather than the older (and in cases more powerful) Warscrolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Agreed, though I would prefer using updated Warscrolls all the time. The confusion that occurs to me is having to check out sources, old costs etc. The moment things get mixed up but still have two of the same models with two different rulessets is rather confusing. Same applies to the use of the Battalions. If they gain or lose Keywords it's often done for a balancing purpose. Sure it would be cool to have everything in the Goretide, D6" movement onto anything makes anything better, but the purpose of the design is to show that Khul is really good in leading Bloodbound, has technical acces to Daemons but doesn't "require them". Ive been going back and forth on many lists but have made a list I want to use for a longer period of time, mainly because 40K is comming up and I want to have good acces to both systems due to 40K having some great use for Daemons aswell. Quote WoK Bloodthirster, Immense Power, Deathdealer (General) Bloodsecrator Bloodsecrator Skullmaster, Herald of Khorne, The Crimson Crown 30 Bloodletters 30 Bloodletters 30 Bloodletters 5 Wrathmongers 5 Skullreapers 10 Marauders of Chaos Murderhost Battalions: 1 Total: 2000/2000 Would love to hear some opinions on this build! The things Im uncertain about is if it's worth it to go the Bloodthirster route versus more ranged heavy forces. As an example Im quite certain 15 Skyfires isnt somethng Im very well equiped for because the moment the lights go down on the Bloodthirster quickly a lot of the points invested into him I would rather have invested into another Hero... The dilemma... Khorne doesn't have great Heroes for mixed armies All in all I do believe the force will do fine, next to it Ill also tinker on with The Goretide so that the last 30 Bloodletter orso wont bore me to death. That list still very comfortably forms itself. So my questin to the tournament veterans, do you think the force contains to few units? Should I split up one block of 30 Bloodletters to three of 10 Bloodletters? Should I run a WoK Bloodthirster at all or is it just too big of a target easily removed? Many thanks for your thoughts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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