Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Nico]

The Banner is an artefact though, so the Warshrine cannot take one as it's #SomehowNotAHero #Who'sThatGuyOnTopOfIt?

The banners for Stormcast are also a bit underwhelming for what it's worth. Whereas one of the Lanterns is epic.

[Jharen]

57 minutes ago, TrexPushups said:

I would say maybe if he was your second bloodsecrator. You really need at least one if only for the battleshock immunity.

He is pretty slow to be getting within 8" of the enemy in your hero phase.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I think the banners certainly encourage us to get our Bloodsecrators up into the chaos of battle rather than sitting them back.  Then again they can also just help hold objects sitting in our own territory.  I can see it being doable to get a Bloodsecrator across the field with some effort.  Bloodstoker can help with the running and some bloodtithe movement too int the hero phase.  As for Battleshock - we now have Bloodsworn command trait which lets us use our generals bravery on units within 8" which if Juggerlord is 9.  Throw inspiring presence on a select one too.  Is it optimal?  Maybe not.  It certainly gives us more options on how to use Bloodsecrators though and it'll be interesting to see what new tactics people come up with for using them.

[Louzi]

Hmm...

Blood Warriors can reroll 1

Blood Reavers, too.

Skull Reapers, too.

So all those units can reroll ALL hit rolls near the Bloodsecrator. I think thats pretty good.

[Louzi]

Honestly, I dont know what is better: +1 attack or reroll ALL hit rolls...

[TrexPushups]

Honestly, I dont know what is better: +1 attack or reroll ALL hit rolls...

As my planned list only 3 artifacts I struggle to include one of the banners over:
Auto include:
Gore-cleaver(rend 2 and mortal wounds on to wound of 6 for my juggernaught lord)
Talisman of burning blood for my blood stoker(+1 to run and charge in an 8 inch bubble on a unit that has to keep up? Yes)

Real debate:
Brazen skull(auto unbind no restrictions from the start of the game? Yes) or re-roll saves of 1 for my bloodsecrator.

My favorite command trait is letting the general charge in the enemy phase.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TrexPushups]

Honestly, I dont know what is better: +1 attack or reroll ALL hit rolls...

As my planned list only 3 artifacts I struggle to include one of the banners over:
Auto include:
Gore-cleaver(rend 2 and mortal wounds on to wound of 6 for my juggernaught lord)
Talisman of burning blood for my blood stoker(+1 to run and charge in an 8 inch bubble on a unit that has to keep up? Yes)

Real debate:
Brazen skull(auto unbind no restrictions from the start of the game? Yes) or re-roll saves of 1 for my bloodsecrator.

My favorite command trait is letting the general charge in the enemy phase.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kaleb Daark]

I managed to study a copy of the book today - I like it. really nicely done and with some good artwork.  It'll be interesting to  see what combinations and strategies people start coming up with.

[Kaleb Daark]

3 hours ago, Killax said:

Well, a single model with 12+ attacks works in my book, especially at that 80 point cost.
In general though having 6+ is quite incredible allready, by large because of how it can drastically impact the field in close corners.

The way the totem works out is a pure bonus for me that allready was incredible (Bloodsecrator). 

how do we get 12 attacks?

[Killax]

32 minutes ago, Kaleb Daark said:

how do we get 12 attacks?

By not talking about Totems  

But in all seriousness, this cat:

 

+ Mark of the Destroyer

Cheers,

[TrexPushups]

By not talking about Totems [emoji14] 

But in all seriousness, this cat:
 

+ Mark of the Destroyer

Cheers,

Well if you have 1 active banner
Use his command ability then he has 10 attacks

Use all that plus the item 16.

Or I can spend 20 more points to get 11 attacks that re-roll 1s to hit 5 more wounds with 0 buffs.

Add just the banner and it is again 16 of those attacks. Even better I still get the attacks if they get killed in hand to hand and they are also battleline.

Bloodwarriors are neat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Arkiham]

use the exalted deathbringer ? +1 attack from banner,  takes him to 4, +2 for ability, 6, doubled. total ~12 depending on buffs.

doing -1 rend 2 damage. 

twice as much damage and more chance of doing it. 

[Killax]

Nothing screams fun as a Wrath of Khorne BT with Immense Power and Behemoths Bane, go more expensive and get better. All the options are there  

[TrexPushups]

use the exalted deathbringer ? +1 attack from banner,  takes him to 4, +2 for ability, 6, doubled. total ~12 depending on buffs.
doing -1 rend 2 damage. 
twice as much damage and more chance of doing it. 

This assumes that additional attacks are doubled instead of added in afterwards.

If that is the case the Aspiring deathbringer easily has 20 attacks after applying his own buff and banner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Arkiham]

1 hour ago, TrexPushups said:

 

 

This assumes that additional attacks are doubled instead of added in afterwards.

If that is the case the Aspiring deathbringer easily has 20 attacks after applying his own buff and banner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

In your hero phase you decide how to activate things, 

So, you activate totem, command ability, then item.

No where does it state a order must be used that I know of.

That's why the unforged does +1 damage as of order item  then doubled against chaos.

 

[redbeardboss]

skull seeker host with 6 skull cannons that shoot in the hero phase and anything they wound the rest of your units can charge in hero phase could be a thing

[davidslv]

On 04/04/2017 at 6:22 PM, Nico said:

I agree with your post, but would just clarify that Blood Warriors are the same cost per wound as Liberators (10 points per wound), which I use as a Baseline for other comparisons. Liberators and Blood Warriors are above average Battleline troops - I just wouldn't call them elite infantry (as otherwise you'll be underwhelmed by them). Ardboyz are in the same category (slightly cheaper as well). Dryads are 12 points per wound. 

Elite Infantry are typically double the cost, e.g. Phoenix Guard are 20 points per wound, as are Saurus Guard. Chaos Chosen are 16 points per wound.

@Nico isn't the Chaos Chosen 9 points per wound? 1 unit is 180 points, 10 models with 2 wounds each, 180 points / 20 wounds = 9 points per wound. Is this how you calculate?

[Adasi]

7 minutes ago, davidslv said:

@Nico isn't the Chaos Chosen 9 points per wound? 1 unit is 180 points, 10 models with 2 wounds each, 180 points / 20 wounds = 9 points per wound. Is this how you calculate?

because Chosen are 160 per 5 models...hence 160/10wounds so 16pts a wound...

[Killax]

8 hours ago, Arkiham said:

In your hero phase you decide how to activate things, 

So, you activate totem, command ability, then item.

No where does it state a order must be used that I know of.

That's why the unforged does +1 damage as of order item  then doubled against chaos.

 

I find that highly unlikely, as it would mean that AoS is the first game that doesn´t use the basic order of operations math. 

I guess it´s worthy to include in a FAQ but I do not think you can add all attacks before multiplying them. 
Instead I find it a more commonly accepted idea (also tracing to 40K and WFB) that you multiply the basic stat then preform additions and substractions. 

A lot of things are (unfortunatly) not stated in AoS, though using common logic helps, which in this case includes a very basic order of operation method in my opinion. 

[Nico]

Quote

A lot of things are (unfortunatly) not stated in AoS, though using common logic helps, which in this case includes a very basic order of operation method in my opinion. 

The Hints and Tips in every Battletome allow you to choose the order of your own abilities as you see fit, so you are able to add distance to your move and then double it for example. Necropolis Knights (they don't exist any more after a savage repointing - don't worry) go from movement 8 to 8+3 and then doubled to 22. So the rules do cover this kind of point. This analogy may extend to the situation here too. 

[Killax]

6 minutes ago, Nico said:

The Hints and Tips in every Battletome allow you to choose the order of your own abilities as you see fit, so you are able to add distance to your move and then double it for example. Necropolis Knights (they don't exist any more after a savage repointing - don't worry) go from movement 8 to 8+3 and then doubled to 22. So the rules do cover this kind of point. This analogy may extend to the situation here too. 

Well if it applies there feel free to break faces even harder. 

I hope things like that are then reconsidered for GH 2.0, unless the mayority of players loves to get clubbed to death by 20+ attack (100-ish) heroes and loves the logic of moving 22"... 

Lets just say I'd rather have a basic norm logic instead of savage recosting. 

[Nico]

Quote

I hope things like that are then reconsidered for GH 2.0, unless the mayority of players loves to get clubbed to death by 20+ attack (100-ish) heroes and loves the logic of moving 22"... 

I'm not following this discussion in any detail, but presumably there are many indirect costs to doing this, like the costs of the Battalions and artefacts, which could be spent elsewhere. So the cost isn't really 100.

Also presumably, said hero is 5 wounds and a 4+ save, so isn't going to last very long. If you're forced to activate him first lest he dies, then something choppier like your big hammer unit is going to get dented beforehand.

[Killax]

41 minutes ago, Nico said:

I'm not following this discussion in any detail, but presumably there are many indirect costs to doing this, like the costs of the Battalions and artefacts, which could be spent elsewhere. So the cost isn't really 100.

Also presumably, said hero is 5 wounds and a 4+ save, so isn't going to last very long. If you're forced to activate him first lest he dies, then something choppier like your big hammer unit is going to get dented beforehand.

Again as mentioned, it's 80 points, do you assume 70 points of Bloodreavers will last long? No and that really isn't the point of it either. -Attrition is not a prime strenght of Khorne in general. -Offense most certainly is. 

MSU and Blood Tithe points
What you can do by applying multiple pockets of small but lethal models (units) for Blades of Khorne is have a very good grip on the game by presenting models that need to be awnsered, can be awnsered but apply so many that your opponent doesn't have a great route to go. This aspect of the game is certainly more skill rewarding as going all melee with everything and this is the point of the discussion I'm trying to make. Totem discussions or effects are a nice bonus but not essential.

So what do I believe has become essential for Blades of Khorne? Blood Tithe point management, recieving a small bonus for something that naturally transpires during a game is great, it's not only great, it's amazing that an army that was allready fully competative functional recieved such a bonus for 0 cost. To me it's the 0 cost bonusses that I am looking into and am being amazed with. From Command Trait to Mortal Items to Daemonic Items, additional Priest spells and new Totem bonusses.

Blades of Khorne can present 101 melee issues and to me this is where it's essential strenght lies. I like stuff like Blood Warriors for the models but the moment I "only recieve" +5 attacks out of my Bloodsecrator while I could also have recieved +10 attacks it's not difficult to find out where the essential advantage lies, even if those +10 attacks can dwindle more easily, it's quantity that BoK can bring, so much that quantity becomes it's quality.

In that same vein, if you can present a 80 point model with 20+ attacks, my opponet is free to focus his attacks on it, it just means that my Bloodletters and Bloodreavers have a larger chance of reaching the oppossing side. In the end you present door A and B and both doors  include over 20+ attacks  

Cheers,

[Pudding1989]

If you field achaon and use a blood tithe point to use your command ability does that mean that every other model that has a command ability can pop it if you haven't already?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RuneBrush]

17 minutes ago, Pudding1989 said:

If you field achaon and use a blood tithe point to use your command ability does that mean that every other model that has a command ability can pop it if you haven't already?

My own interpretation would be yes

[Nico]

Quote

If you field achaon and use a blood tithe point to use your command ability does that mean that every other model that has a command ability can pop it if you haven't already?

Yes that would work.

Presumably the point being that you could then have a different model as the General and so you don't lose out on having a Command Trait.

On the other hand, every time you use a Blood Tithe point, you lose all the other ones that you've got in the Bank, so this could be an expensive way to keep Archaon pumping out the Command Abilities.