Killax Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Well, first lets spoil all the Battalions (mortal and daemon) and do a CCC:Mortal/Bloodbound BattalionsDaemon BattalionsCross Cost Comparison Comments on other comments @'Arkiham' I think that it's easy to misjudge the massive ammount of additional synergy can that is opend for BoK right now. As there really is much more than meets the eye in almost every case as it used to. What is more important to keep in mind is that Khorne was allready preforming well competatively speaking and all that happend now is that it became even better, at practical 2 unit cost increases, those for the Bloodreavers (though now with save and buffable save at that) and Khorgoraths. - Usually games double then buff, so double attacks (for example) +1 for the Bloodsecrator is common. - Skullcrushers arn't what they where in WFB, that much is true. Though saying at this point that they where nerfed in BoK is incorrect. To me they are an legit option if you want to run with a sturdy force. Brass Stampede is not a joke, even less so when our Slaughterpriest gives them a boost to their saves. - Skullcannon isn't garbage, key here is to look for the synergy that is now provided for it. Not a fan of the Bloodthrone but also not disliking it either as a model for Murderhost (which is fast as heck boii) - If you really like Tzeentch that's what you should play right? @'Greetings from the Warp' Welcome to the family man! Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 My biggest concern is, that lists with Sayl will remain the topdog in competitive play. On top of that, the bigger battalions seem rather expensive. I'm not sure if the additional boni add up well against the taxes. You'll pay 200-400p just for special rules, which could be translated into 20-40 missing wounds in your army. I guess we'll see, hard to evaluate beforehand. Nevertheless, I'm super hyped for the book and really glad I preordered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Xasz said: My biggest concern is, that lists with Sayl will remain the topdog in competitive play. I think that some Battalions in general arn't that much needed, in essence I believe that the Weapons, Banners and Bloodthirsters are all now a very viable upgrade that doesn't look ****** for Battalions. The biggest overall game changer is Blood Tithe, the Armoury and Priest upgrades. It's true that the Battalions arn't face bending but then again, the units do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Quote I'm not liking the 3-7 other battalions thing going on on all our big battalions. It makes many of them either too expensive to play in matched play or only playable if you take the cheapest battalions possible and then you're running with 9 units of 10 bloodletters or bloodreavers and throwing your back out leaning over the table and having to end games in turn 3 with the amount of time you spend trying to move all those models. This is the norm for Mega-Battalions in most books. Sylvaneth really struggle here too as the minimum requirements for several Battalions are brutal (Winterleaf and especially Dreadwood). This is why Gnarlroot is so popular as the minimum requirements are so low. DoT are frankly in a worse position than Khorne. There's only one mega battalion that jumps off the page and even that one requires 10 units including 600 points of Lords of Change. I've not detected any enthusiasm for the mega Battalions for the Arcanites, which is troubling at this stage. The units are obviously interesting - Tzaangors, Shamen, Enlightened and sadly Skyfires. As you go on to say, some of the Battalions are "may include" ones. These can be much smaller, but can also be used as single drop armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I do wonder why many are so Battalion focused. I think that for Khorne in particular they are secondary to heroes, new weapons, totems and armour make a lot of the former mediocre choices amazing. As a fan of BoK Im going to focus mostly on Blood Tithe synergy, Totems and my Bloodthirster(s). I believe this is the way to go. There are a small handful of good Battalions but you could also get in more numbers, which matters a lot for BT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleb Daark Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Aww man, khorgoraths still units of 6!!! 8's GW.... 8!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Quote My biggest concern is, that lists with Sayl will remain the topdog in competitive play. I expect that Sayl will be largely forgotten in a few months time. Most of his power comes from the magnet under the 12" line that people continue to believe in. It's still astonishing that people put valuable units within 26" of 6 Stormfiends in deployment. Deploy 6" on or even on the backline and don't be afraid to use your buffs, sit still and give your opponent the turn immediately. There are far more viable long range shooting options now. Previously there were Judicators (29") and Kurnoths and the ever risky crewed artillery. Recently, we've added Skyfires and Raptors. Not only do these pose a direct risk to Sayl (as some tables simply don't have line of sight blocking scenery in the deployment zone), but they also allow a player to focus fire on the likely target of the Sayl buff from a position of safety (whether they go first or second). DoT have several ways of unbinding Sayl's spell - all they need is to have a caster within range. The cheapest way is probably to give a Tzaangor Shaman the Windthief Charm, whereupon he can move 32" "Once per battle" (no other timing restrictions). This is the same wording as Kairos's Oracle of Eternity ability (i.e. any time whatsoever). The Shaman can move in the opponent's hero phase for example at any time, so he can get into unbinding range and probably get line of sight on Sayl for the unbind. Summoned Wizards can also do the job or the Changeling. Khorne have an artefact which is an auto-unbind once per game. Infinite range. They could take two of these if needed. This is on top of the Battle Trait. This is compelling. I would echo what I've said many times about tournaments where artefacts and traits (and possibly weapon options) can be chosen before each game as opposed to being fixed - it makes a colossal difference to some lists - especially Sylvaneth where the choice between Briarsheath and Oaken Armour is huge. It's probably a good middle ground between entirely fixed lists and sideboards/dual lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I largerly agree with Nico. Sayl will remain but simply said isnt mandatory for Khorne or Tzeentch for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louzi Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Are we sure, that the rules for the slaughterborn battalion are correct? It doesnt make any sense. I think it is meant, that you have to be within 3" from your general and 12" from enemy?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 13 minutes ago, Louzi said: Are we sure, that the rules for the slaughterborn battalion are correct? It doesnt make any sense. I think it is meant, that you have to be within 3" from your general and 12" from enemy?!? The general has to be within 3" of the enemy and you within 12" of the general. Technically you can charge if the opponent is 15" away (so a max charge with a bloodstoker whip) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Quite liking some of the new battalions and can see me rolling with some of them (expanding here and there as necessary). I'm currently thinking of a quick deployment Daemon component and then a slower Bloodbound contingent could be quite useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 26 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: The general has to be within 3" of the enemy and you within 12" of the general. Technically you can charge if the opponent is 15" away (so a max charge with a bloodstoker whip) you cant declare a charge outside of 12" unless you have special rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 1 minute ago, Arkiham said: you cant declare a charge outside of 12" unless you have special rules Think the "Hunger for Glory" rules in the Slaughterborn battalion must allow this then, unless I've read it completely wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 42 minutes ago, RuneBrush said: Think the "Hunger for Glory" rules in the Slaughterborn battalion must allow this then, unless I've read it completely wrong It does look like you can. It's not as direct as harbingers is allowing it but it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Killax said: Sayl will remain but simply said isnt mandatory for Khorne or Tzeentch for that matter. That's pretty much all I want. My other army is Soulblight/VC, which pretty much has to rely on catapulting a unit of bloodknights or the lord on zombieflapflap over the board on turn one. It's fun for a couple games but it gets boring real fast and the dependency on Sayl made me shy away from Khorne so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 That's pretty much all I want. My other army is Soulblight/VC, which pretty much has to rely on catapulting a unit of bloodknights or the lord on zombieflapflap over the board on turn one. It's fun for a couple games but it gets boring real fast and the dependency on Sayl made me shy away from Khorne so far. I love that Khorne presents a hard counter to Sayl and all the other spell dependent tricks with the auto dispel artifact and later on the blood tithe chart. It is fantastic to have such a meta warping/crushing ability. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Is it just me or are all of the banner options really unappealing on the immobile bloodsecrator. 8" is way to short on a model that might move once or twice a game. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, TrexPushups said: Is it just me or are all of the banner options really unappealing on the immobile bloodsecrator. 8" is way to short on a model that might move once or twice a game. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It feels like small incentive to me to have the model closer up. It still surpises me how the focus seems to be on the irrelevant stuff on the forums ;). No talk about Mortal and Daemonic Weapons. Hunting Hero's, Behemoth's and doubling your melee attacks (all) are suddenly out of fasion?! Nobody wants to talk about the slaughterfest Bloodthirsters and even Aspiring Deathbringers can unleash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 It feels like small incentive to me to have the model closer up. It still surpises me how the focus seems to be on the irrelevant stuff on the forums . No talk about Mortal and Daemonic Weapons. Hunting Hero's, Behemoth's and doubling your melee attacks (all) are suddenly out of fasion?! [emoji6] Nobody wants to talk about the slaughterfest Bloodthirsters and even Aspiring Deathbringers can unleash?I am less excited about doubling the Aspiring death bringers attacks because they are kinda bad and I am pretty sure that the doubling will end up being before additions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 29 minutes ago, TrexPushups said: Is it just me or are all of the banner options really unappealing on the immobile bloodsecrator. 8" is way to short on a model that might move once or twice a game. For me, if I've enemies within 8" of my Bloodsecrator, I'm doing something wrong! Banner of Rage is also a bit naff as it only effects models within 8" rather than units. I guess they're ideal for Warshrines or if you simply use your Bloodsecrator as an extra hero rather than a planting a banner - what would be awesome would be if he worked in the same way as an Infernal Standard... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 For me, if I've enemies within 8" of my Bloodsecrator, I'm doing something wrong! Banner of Rage is also a bit naff as it only effects models within 8" rather than units. I guess they're ideal for Warshrines or if you simply use your Bloodsecrator as an extra hero rather than a planting a banner - what would be awesome would be if he worked in the same way as an Infernal Standard...Shame that only the bloodsecrator can use the banners as they are for Bloodbound heros only. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Just now, TrexPushups said: Shame that only the bloodsecrator can use the banners as they are for Bloodbound heros only. Bother, didn't spot that in my scan through! Can't imagine them getting a lot of use then if I'm truthful. That said, would a combat bloodsecrator with Banner of Wrath be worth 120 points (bearing in mind you don't need to plant it for it to be active). For tightly packed armies it has the potential to dish out a little bit of damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Bother, didn't spot that in my scan through! Can't imagine them getting a lot of use then if I'm truthful. That said, would a combat bloodsecrator with Banner of Wrath be worth 120 points (bearing in mind you don't need to plant it for it to be active). For tightly packed armies it has the potential to dish out a little bit of damageI would say maybe if he was your second bloodsecrator. You really need at least one if only for the battleshock immunity. He is pretty slow to be getting within 8" of the enemy in your hero phase. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted April 5, 2017 Author Share Posted April 5, 2017 yeah its a shame they didn't make it all totems marked khorne, it only benefits two additional units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 51 minutes ago, TrexPushups said: I am less excited about doubling the Aspiring death bringers attacks because they are kinda bad and I am pretty sure that the doubling will end up being before additions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Well, a single model with 12+ attacks works in my book, especially at that 80 point cost. In general though having 6+ is quite incredible allready, by large because of how it can drastically impact the field in close corners. The way the totem works out is a pure bonus for me that allready was incredible (Bloodsecrator). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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