Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch

[Nico]

Changeling can now deploy anywhere on their territory - not just deployment zone - a nice clarification/buff for Changehost.

However cannot use degrading weapons (like Durthu's sword).

[Arkiham]

37 minutes ago, Nico said:

Changeling can now deploy anywhere on their territory - not just deployment zone - a nice clarification/buff for Changehost.

Does he have to be revealed to claim ? Can't remember 

[Nico]

I would say yes as otherwise he is an enemy model.

[hobgoblinclub]

10 hours ago, Nico said:

I would say yes as otherwise he is an enemy model.

Did they miss it out of the FAQs? Really needs to be. I think the wording says 'the enemy see him as a friendly model' which, to me, implies he isn't. I used to run him but dropped him when people started saying he couldn't hold objectives unless he'd revealed himself. Although, he was stupidly good at holding them when we thought he didn't need to. 

[5kaven5lave]

Guys, quick question about summoning and battalions. If I'm taking a battalion (eg. The Host Duplicitous), do I need to set up all the units on the table from the get-go or can some of them be summoned in? I'm thinking specifically about Blue and Brimstone Horrors being called in after Pinks go pop. Or do I pay for smaller Horrors in my list and bring them in at my discretion?

Cheers!!

[Nico]

Yes the whole Battalion needs to be deployed. Summons are just a pool of points.

[SpiritofHokuto]

So with everything about the GHB2017 out in the open now this is the list I'm thinking of gunning towards (n.b. Where I play using the old compendium warscrolls is allowed).

Allegiance: Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (120)
- Artefact: Souldraught 
- Lore of Fate: Treacherous Bond
Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- General
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield 
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Exalted Hero With Battle Standard (80)
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
Sayl The Faithless (120)

5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
5 x Chaos Knights (160)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
36 x Chaos Marauders (200)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
9 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
9 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
3 x Chaos Gorebeast Chariots (300)
- War Flail
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Fatesworn Warband (100)

Total: 1900/2000 (100 reinforcement points for a Balewind Vortex)

[Hightime]

How are competitive players dealing with stormcast cheese.

ie. the 12 Longstrikes with two lighting charriots zipping around, or the battalions where if you kill one of there squads they get to shoot back at you oh and the whole longstrikes shooting in the hero phase?

Currently been using the changehost to try and get my LOC close enough to cast infernal gateway and firestorm to put a dent in the long strikes, but with the new FAQ not letting you pick the same model its making it more and more difficult.

Im this close to just flooding the board with skyfires, but would prefer a more healthy and varied option.

[TheOtherJosh]

How are competitive players dealing with stormcast cheese. 

ie. the 12 Longstrikes with two lighting charriots zipping around, or the battalions where if you kill one of there squads they get to shoot back at you oh and the whole longstrikes shooting in the hero phase?

Currently been using the changehost to try and get my LOC close enough to cast infernal gateway and firestorm to put a dent in the long strikes, but with the new FAQ not letting you pick the same model its making it more and more difficult.

 

Im this close to just flooding the board with skyfires, but would prefer a more healthy and varied option.

 

 

So... Hosts Duplicitous allows using any Flamer as your casting point for a spell. Without moving the LoC.

 

Flamers and exalted flamers have a move of 9. And the burning Chariot has a move of 14" and range of 18.

 

Herald on Chariot as general makes burning chariots as battleline.

 

Just thinking .... maybe? (Given that the meta hasn't completely shaken out yet.)

 

[AverageBoss]

14 hours ago, Hightime said:

How are competitive players dealing with stormcast cheese.

Funnily, in the Lets Chat SCE thread they are just as worried about DoT cheese .

 

3 hours ago, TheOtherJosh said:

 

So... Hosts Duplicitous allows using any Flamer as your casting point for a spell. Without moving the LoC.

 

Flamers and exalted flamers have a move of 9. And the burning Chariot has a move of 14" and range of 18.

 

Herald on Chariot as general makes burning chariots as battleline.

 

Just thinking .... maybe? (Given that the meta hasn't completely shaken out yet.)

 

Unfortunately, Flamers, Exalted Flamers, and Burning Chariots are still way too many points, with fundamentally flawed warscrolls imo. I don't think an expensive battalion saves them unfortunately.

[HMB]

Hi guys, i'm going to run this list this evening

1 LoC

1 Gaunt with Familiars

1 Tzaangor Shaman on Disc

10 Pink Horrors

10 Pink Horrors

20 Caos Warriors (or maybe Tzaangors?)

2x3 Skyfires

5 Chaos Knight

3 Enlighted on Disc

1 Balewind

 

can you give me help?

this could be a good solution? I'm not running FATESWORN 'cause my  gorebeast chariots are under my brushes and i also miss some model.

[Gilby]

On 8/26/2017 at 1:42 PM, SpiritofHokuto said:

It gets even weirder with the Lord on Daemonic Mount. As he can re-roll all failed saves, its better for you to fail the first "set" of saves so there's more saves that have already been re-rolled so the downside of the shield is diminished.

It pretty much works out the same as before, but now its more counter-intuitive. Fluffy in a way I suppose.

If you end up re-rolling all failed and all successful saves it is the same as not re-rolling them at all. Would save time just to use the first roll.

[wanderingrogue]

after a lengthy look and discussion with peers. It looks like fatesworn as an option is a bust, at least if you want to run it as a DOT list with destiny dice.

 

If you want to run DOT all scrolls and battalions need to be DOT, fatesworn is Everchosen. There is also no way to take battalions as allies, that caveat it purely for units.

So my fatesworn army just all got taken out the shopping basket.... 

[HMB]

You're saying that DoT are not supposed to use FATESWORN? So even Slave to Darkness are not supposed to use it

[HMB]

The Allegiance is not DISCIPLE OF TZEENTCH: it's only TZEENTCH, so it includes all TZEENTCH warscroll with this keyword

[wanderingrogue]

its not a tzeentch warscroll, its an "everchosen" one.

[wanderingrogue]

so basically you can use that warscroll in an everchosen army and thats it, or arguably a standard mixed chaos army. But your never getting DOT alliegance abilitys alongside it unless someone faqs it that you can take battalion points from your allies allowance

 

[Fulgrima]

I know the Azyr app is unreliable at best but it currently allows you to take a warscroll battalion out of your ally points.  However reading the rules for the Warscroll Batallion it says that all units in a warscroll battalion re considered to have the allegiance noted above the title in the warscroll so would that then make all of the fatesworn batallion Everchosen.

[Ratso]

50 minutes ago, wanderingrogue said:

so basically you can use that warscroll in an everchosen army and thats it, or arguably a standard mixed chaos army. But your never getting DOT alliegance abilitys alongside it unless someone faqs it that you can take battalion points from your allies allowance

 

Fatesworn can be used outside the everchosen Alliegence. This question comes up every few months. The clarification is well hidden on page 95 of the Tzeentch battletome, at the bottom under 'Allegiances'. I quote 'A battalion can still be part of any allegiance that all its units have on their warscrolls'.

[DarrinTheOccult]

1 hour ago, wanderingrogue said:

so basically you can use that warscroll in an everchosen army and thats it, or arguably a standard mixed chaos army. But your never getting DOT alliegance abilitys alongside it unless someone faqs it that you can take battalion points from your allies allowance

 

Thinking like that then you can't use Slave to Darkness on A Fatesworn Battalion, the only way to use it is with Archaon and 9 Gaunt Summoners lol

If all the units of a battalion have the same Keyword, they can belong to that alliegance.

[TheOtherJosh]

Unfortunately, Flamers, Exalted Flamers, and Burning Chariots are still way too many points, with fundamentally flawed warscrolls imo. I don't think an expensive battalion saves them unfortunately.

 

As they say "on the internet" 'Well that's just your opinion, bro.' [emoji6]

 

But seriously, flamers received a price drop and are solid shooting. If you have a mobile Tzeentch Daemon hero nearby they have a chance to reinforce themselves with locus of transmogrification. (And you want mobile because they're fast moving.)

 

They're not as good in melee, but with a high movement value and a solid 18" range on ranged attacks and the battalion ability to help get the loc into position for spells .... it would be both outside the prior meta, and a completely different Army to play. And the only "tax" to do it is the requirement for a herald on Chariot. (Outside of the battalions.)

 

It was a suggestion to answer a specific question of dealing with high movement units and units with range as a Tzeentch Daemon player without going the Skyfire Spam route. (Which is now much more expensive @ 200 points each ...)

 

What would your suggestion be as an answer to SCE chariots and longstrikes, without going Skyfire Spam given issues with the change to the Changehost battalion and Balewind Vortex?

[Ratso]

24 minutes ago, DarrinTheOccult said:

Thinking like that then you can't use Slave to Darkness on A Fatesworn Battalion, the only way to use it is with Archaon and 9 Gaunt Summoners lol

If all the units of a battalion have the same Keyword, they can belong to that alliegance.

Think the otherway round, a slaves to darkness army doesn't become an everchosen Alliegance army because the units meet the criteria for Fatesworn, more Fatesworn because accessable within a DoT, Slaves to Darkness or a mixed chaos Alliegence because the units meet the battalion  criteria.

[SpiritofHokuto]

3 hours ago, Gilby said:

If you end up re-rolling all failed and all successful saves it is the same as not re-rolling them at all. Would save time just to use the first roll.

Not quite. It actually works out better to fail the first set of saves as all the saves re-rolled due to the Mark of Tzeentch and sub-sequentially passed can't be re-rolled again by the Paradoxical Shield. 

[Gilby]

13 minutes ago, SpiritofHokuto said:

Not quite. It actually works out better to fail the first set of saves as all the saves re-rolled due to the Mark of Tzeentch and sub-sequentially passed can't be re-rolled again by the Paradoxical Shield. 

If you are rerolling every dice then the result of the first roll is meaningless. You could grab them without looking and reroll. As such it's easier just to say that you have already rolled them once and count the first roll as the second (and therefore un-rerollable).

[Nico]

There's a paragraph in the newer Battletomes which allows a Battalion to take on the allegiance of its contents. It's the final paragraph on page 95 of the Tzeentch Battletome for example. Also present in SCE and BoK. This allows Fatesworn to be Tzeentch (as well as allowing the contents to be Everchosen - you can pick either).