Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch

[Grimnaud]

11 minutes ago, ssharkus said:

Thx for the advice.

But does the Changeling also receive Gaping Maw ability bonus if he attacks with it? I thought you only get the basic weapon output.

My god this poor Changeling is just one huge controversy)

He has King on Terrorgheist, two varghulfs, crypt flayer courtier and the rest is horrors and horror hero.  

My point was to block my rear with brimstones, summon some stuff in his deployment zone, halve his big horror pack`s movement and draw his attention away from the objectives for some time)

I would say that he does, but that's because I would count a weapons abilities as part of it's "profile". Talk it over with your opponent before rolling the dice, and if he disagrees save the destiny dice for the damage roll 

Are you sure that he isn't using any ghouls? Horrors are only battle line if he uses a Courtier as his general, in which case he won't be able to use the GKoTG's command ability to summon horrors.

His Infernal Courtier can only summon Flayers, so focus on his king, the Haunter, and the Varghulfs first. If you move your casters forwards behind a shield of blue and brimstone horrors that should buy you enough time to magically turn them into cinders in a turn or two.

First priority against FEC is to kill his general so that the 5+ save goes away (assuming that he's using the ruler of the night). Second are the Courtiers who can summon models back. Third comes all the other heroes. THEN it's time to deal with the units. Up until that point, chaff, chaff, and chaff some more.

[Nico]

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First priority against FEC is to kill his general so that the 5+ save goes away (assuming that he's using the ruler of the night). Second are the Courtiers who can summon models back. Third comes all the other heroes. THEN it's time to deal with the units. Up until that point, chaff, chaff, and chaff some more.

First priority is to unbind the spells from the Flappies (especially the 5+ Ward Spell). 

Taking out the general is a tough proposition for DoT, due to at least one 5++ ward save. If you try to kill it but fail, that's almost certainly going to cost you the game. I would be inclined to nuke the Courtiers as they are easier to take down and aren't coming back. I completely agree that chaff, such as Pink Horrors with split is the way to go.

I've not thought about anyone using the various Command Abilities to summon dudes. I suppose if the General dies, then you could just summon other death units like Spirit Hosts with a different wizard - so the reinforcement points aren't lost along with the general (although you would then be trading off the option of casting the spell of that Wizard - all of which are very strong buffs). 

[ssharkus]

33 minutes ago, Grimnaud said:

Are you sure that he isn't using any ghouls? Horrors are only battle line if he uses a Courtier as his general, in which case he won't be able to use the GKoTG's command ability to summon horrors.

Well, we play Matched Play format with friends using only point cost, so there are no Pitched Battle restrictions for battleline, leader, etc. amount. I`m not very eager to play pitched battle with rules of one restricting my arcane bolt bonanza

[Grimnaud]

1 minute ago, ssharkus said:

Well, we play Matched Play format, so there are no restrictions for battleline, leader, etc. amount.

I'm a bit confused by this. You play with points, but no restrictions? Do you use Allegiance abilities, items and command traits?

7 minutes ago, Nico said:

First priority is to unbind the spells from the Flappies (especially the 5+ Ward Spell). 

Taking out the general is a tough proposition for DoT, due to at least one 5++ ward save. If you try to kill it but fail, that's almost certainly going to cost you the game. I would be inclined to nuke the Courtiers as they are easier to take down and aren't coming back. I completely agree that chaff, such as Pink Horrors with split is the way to go.

I've not thought about anyone using the various Command Abilities to summon dudes. I suppose if the General dies, then you could just summon other death units like Spirit Hosts with a different wizard - so the reinforcement points aren't lost along with the general (although you would then be trading off the option of casting the spell of that Wizard - all of which are very strong buffs). 

Unbinding is a priority, but I meant it as prioritization of targets . With the amount of casters in a DoT army, unbinding should just be something you do automatically. But yeah, stopping the extra 5+ save from the GKoTG is on the top of the unbind list.

You would be surprised how often a Ghoul King on a monster dies. It might just be my atrocious dice rolling, but the damn thing is so large that hiding it from line of sight is impossible, and keeping a combat monster out of range is tantamount to wasting the points. Summoning in a herald, popping his tome and going for 2 d6 mortal wound spells, plus another from the changeling before charging in and using his maw attacks against him has a decent chance of taking him out for 260 points. Worst case scenario he's lost only a couple of wounds and kills the Changeling while the Herald ties up a unit for a turn. That still leaves you in pretty good shape.

In the list above the Ghoul King is the only wizard, so killing him would definitely be worth the risk.

[Nico]

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You would be surprised how often a Ghoul King on a monster dies. It might just be my atrocious dice rolling, but the damn thing is so large that hiding it from line of sight is impossible, and keeping a combat monster out of range is tantamount to wasting the points. Summoning in a herald, popping his tome and going for 2 d6 mortal wound spells, plus another from the changeling before charging in and using his maw attacks against him has a decent chance of taking him out for 260 points. 

You could reliably dump 7-8 mortal wounds with the Herald (assuming that he fails the unbind roll; and assuming that you can use Destiny Dice; and have two sizes or a 5 and a 6 in the DD). This is obviously firing off everything at once and leaves you with little in the tank for later, but is often a good move.

Bear in mind that he can summon a Banshee or a Cairn Wraith right next to the Changeling as a hard counter. Wow - they are useful after all....

 

[Nico]

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In the list above the Ghoul King is the only wizard, so killing him would definitely be worth the risk.

Good point.

[Nico]

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Unbinding is a priority, but I meant it as prioritization of targets . With the amount of casters in a DoT army, unbinding should just be something you do automatically. But yeah, stopping the extra 5+ save from the GKoTG is on the top of the unbind list.

Your idea of putting a Herald nearby is also useful as it will give you the option of doing the unbind.

[Grimnaud]

18 minutes ago, Nico said:

You could reliably dump 7-8 mortal wounds with the Herald (assuming that he fails the unbind roll; and assuming that you can use Destiny Dice; and have two sizes or a 5 and a 6 in the DD). This is obviously firing off everything at once and leaves you with little in the tank for later, but is often a good move.

Bear in mind that he can summon a Banshee or a Cairn Wraith right next to the Changeling as a hard counter. Wow - they are useful after all....

 

Versus a list like this I would try to get the first turn, and since FEC usually only include 4-5 units in most of their battalions, that's usually pretty easy. If you can take the King out turn one, his army is hamstrung. Even getting him down a couple of tiers will severely restrict his movement and give you more control over the field.

Edit: Taking the first turn also means that he hasn't had time to buff anything, and leaves the Changeling free to strike unless he boxed him up in deployment.

I've been thinking a lot about what type of lists it is useful to take the first turn against versus trying for the double turn, but the pay out for killing a crucial character like a Ghoul King on a monster is IMO worth the risk. If you can make sure that you have a double line of horrors in front of your essential units in case your opponent gets the double.

[ssharkus]

45 minutes ago, Grimnaud said:

I'm a bit confused by this. You play with points, but no restrictions? Do you use Allegiance abilities, items and command traits?

 

Yeah. Kinda Open Play with points to even things out. Allegiance and other stuff we use too. We have around 6 players that are just starting to play AoS and are absolutely new to the hobby so we let em play whatever they want for now, but encouraging them to aim for pitched battle restrictions with battleline and hero count. In proper matched play i use changehost, this Demon Cohort list is not as strong, because you loose so many casting opportunities. 

So basically im just thinking what to throw at Terrorgheist. He often uses Unholy Vitality. With ruler of the night it will be double 5+ rolls to avoid mortal wounds, so i thought about throwing 20 bloodletters and Bloodthirstier at him, not only a Herald or a suiscidal LoC with Changeling.

[Vaz84]

Curious how people deal with Tomb Kings? specifically there being at least 2 screaming skull catapults in the enemy army?.

[Nico]

Don't engage the TG until you've unbound his Ward Save and indeed a Mystic Shield. Retreat out of combat before that. Focus fire other stuff. Tough match up.

[Nico]

Snipe the Catapult Crew with either a spell, Skyfires, or even a summoned Exalted Flamer for 120 reinforcement points.

[Malfallax]

Assistance requested!!!

I have a game against BoK 1000 points this weekend. 

Any tips to fight them?

Any specific list advice?

My list so far is:

-LoC w/ Rod 

-Daemon Prince 

-Blue Scribes

-Pink Horrors x10

-Pink Horrors x10

Points 860

 

And some questions about it:

• LoC or DP as General?

•The remaining 140pts should be a Chaos Sorcerer, an Herald or Summoning pool?

@Soulsmith

Edit: excuse me Soulsmith I don't know why your name is stuck there I cannot delete it.

[Soulsmith]

Assistance requested!!!
I have a game against BoK 1000 points this weekend. 
Any tips to fight them?
Any specific list advice?
My list so far is:
-LoC w/ Rod 
-Daemon Prince 
-Blue Scribes
-Pink Horrors x10
-Pink Horrors x10
Points 860
 
And some questions about it:
• LoC or DP as General?
•The remaining 140pts should be a Chaos Sorcerer, an Herald or Summoning pool?
[mention=756]Soulsmith[/mention]
Edit: excuse me Soulsmith I don't know why your name is stuck there I cannot delete it.

Damn I thought someone liked me. Looks good, you could try a Balewind? Khorne isn't known for shooting.

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[blueguy203]

Guys

 

I need your help building a competitive tzeentch 2K list. Here is what I have so far and could use some insights and suggestions:

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice - Tzeentch Arcanite Hero
- Lore of Fate: Bolt of Tzeentch
Gaunt Summoner (100)
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Ogroid Thaumaturge (160)
- Artefact: Paradoxical Shield 
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum

Battleline
20 x Tzaangors (360)
- 6x Pair of Savage Blade
- 8x Savage Greatblade
- 6x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
- Axes & Shields
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch

Units
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (320)
6 x Tzaangor Skyfires (320)

Behemoths
Mutalith Vortex Beast (220)

Total: 1720/2000
 

 

So i have thought about bringing in the lord of change but thought he might take up too much pts for getting the one great spell and relying on the Gaunt Summoner to replace that as for the rest Shaman to babysit the 12 skyfires and then move to assist the tzaangors when needed. Orgoid is going to hero support the Tzaangors in the meantime while the Marauders are there to capture objectives. Vortex Beast and Gaunt summoner are there to create some headaches. So what else do you think i should bring or change?

 

thanks in advance.

[backslide]

Sword or wand on a lord of change?

I tend to go for sword and one of my horror units goes for the +1 attack spell

 

Lacking combat ablity in the army in general having a decent heavy hitter is handy... Arkarn the black picked a fight with him the other day and lost

[Iradekhorne]

i think swords 4+ destinY dices are devastating

[backslide]

game tonight...

 

Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Incorporeal Form - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability 
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Herald Of Tzeentch (120)
- Staff of Change 
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability 
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
1 x Burning Chariots Of Tzeentch (160)
1 x Burning Chariots Of Tzeentch (160)
1 x Burning Chariots Of Tzeentch (160)
1 x Burning Chariots Of Tzeentch (160)
Changehost (60)

Total: 1660/2000

 

I do have 2 more chariots  but I'm fighting an Orrk army with 130+ models, summoning pool intent is to take first turn, swap some horrors around to get in firestorm and bolt range, summon 6 bloodcrushers (get 6 on 11+) to basically get in the way and be annoying will take a bit to shift with mystic shield on them, chariots pick a flank and burn it...

 

other thought would be summon a tzeentch soul grinder then use fate dice to throw it into something important turn one

[Iradekhorne]

One thing guys, anyone thinks the Kairic Acolytes are super-overpriced? I think his 140 point is the cost for 20, not 10...

The New arknauts dwardin cost 120 points and shoot more than double better than acolites. Only his 3 special weapons do 18 shoots 5+ (4+ to héroes and monsters), 4+ to wound and rend -1. What happened with the price of the Acolytes?

Comone, blue horrors shoot better (dont need a wizard near) and cost 50 xDDDD

No one play Acolytes Omg xD.

We need faq, I think the real price for this guys are 70, 80 or 100 not 140 omg

[Vaz84]

Curious to anyone who has played against Tomb Kings, and any advice that could be given.

[AverageBoss]

8 hours ago, Iradekhorne said:

One thing guys, anyone thinks the Kairic Acolytes are super-overpriced? I think his 140 point is the cost for 20, not 10...

The New arknauts dwardin cost 120 points and shoot more than double better than acolites. Only his 3 special weapons do 18 shoots 5+ (4+ to héroes and monsters), 4+ to wound and rend -1. What happened with the price of the Acolytes?

Comone, blue horrors shoot better (dont need a wizard near) and cost 50 xDDDD

No one play Acolytes Omg xD.

We need faq, I think the real price for this guys are 70, 80 or 100 not 140 omg

Acolytes, Screamers, every Flamer, and I would also say Enlightened (though to a much lesser extent) are pretty overpriced.

Compare acolytes to pink horrors even. Both are 140 point battleline units in the same book.

[Mirage8112]

Acolytes, Screamers, every Flamer, and I would also say Enlightened (though to a much lesser extent) are pretty overpriced.

Compare acolytes to pink horrors even. Both are 140 point battleline units in the same book.

I dunno. I rather think they're ok. They have the advantage of being fairly customizable and their shooting output is greatly enhanced by the Pyroflame cult.


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[AverageBoss]

Unfortunately, most of their customization simply brings them from terrible to very sub-par imo. Even with the 3 glaives you are allowed in a 10 man unit, their melee capability is barely better than Pink Horrors. They hit worse than Horrors, unless you have a character stick near them. They have shorter range if your scroll bearer dies. They have worse saves, and half the bravery. Pinks are also wizards, and I think the ability to cast and dispel additional spells is far better than a 1/3 chance to deal a mortal wound to the caster after the fact. That's not even getting into Pink Horrors ability to regrow themselves on battleshock tests of 1 (great use of Destiny Dice when the unit gets low btw).

Yes, Pyroflame Cult makes them good, but at that point you have spent a minimum of 1,270 points. Part of which is invested in Enlightened (if only they had Guided by the Future and/or 4+ armor).

[ssharkus]

I have few more Flesh eater questions)

1.If I cast Scintillating Simulacra on a Terrorgheist - do his wound rolls of 6 still trigger Maw ability? Or if it autofails - they dont?
2.Also can the opposing player choose not to reroll his hit\wound after getting Scintillating Simulacra debuff? Rerolls say "you can reroll" so my guess he can choose not to.

 

Thanks in advance

[Nico]

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Yes, Pyroflame Cult makes them good, but at that point you have spent a minimum of 1,270 points. Part of which is invested in Enlightened (if only they had Guided by the Future and/or 4+ armor).

They also seem decent in the Fatesworn Warband. The main thing that they have is the 6++ ward save, which is more important than you might think.