(Updated with Unit thoughts) Rend/Mortal Wounds to round out list?

[mmimzie]

Looking to round out the below list

VL (General, Immortal, Ruler Of the Knight)

2x Necromancers

1x Vampire Lord on abyssal

2x Corpse Cart (+1 cast, but modeled with the flames because they are cool and fit the theme of my army)

 

9x10 zombies

~~1,320 points about

680 summoning pool. 10 zombie/ dire wolves/carin Wraith summons, +1 banshee. I think the Harbingers cost 4 zombie summons.

I need a source of good rend (-2) or mortal wounds:

Archai

Mortis engine

Spirit host

Mourgul

I have tried the mortis engine, and it's nice some times?? but it's a little slow, and usually the zombies just kill things i try to hit with the engine. The spell casting heavy list benefits from the +1 to cast, and if i bring 2 mortis engines they'll have lots of nice targets with all the heros and the 2 engines to heal. All mortal wounds here, but against high bravery targets they might not pull thier weight

Archai seem strong, but they seem vulnerable to the rend my zombie army doesn't care much for. Increasing enemy target options, but they work wonderfully with necro damage mitigation. The VLoA would do well to speed these guys up for a nice charge. Only -2 rend but lots averages ~8 wounds??  But it is 240 points in 1 unit

 

Spirit host, 3 mortal wounds in a bag. walking arcane missiles. They also like being speed boosted by VLoA, but not as fast as arcai. No rend issues so they'll be just as if not more frustrating than the zombies to shoot at. 140 points a squad could bring 2 3man squads or one 6man. 

 

I'm abit Meh on the moungul. I don't care for the unit really i guess. But, i'm sure it's good??

 

[Malakithe]

I was thinking of running 2 Mortis Engines to flank the VLoZD to create an aoe MW bubble. My 2k I'm thinking includes Spirit Hosts and Morghast so everything sets covered...in theory lol

[Malakithe]

This is my current is the thinking. Cheap battleline. Spirit Hosts and Morghast make for the good punchy units with the VLoZD. Also some great magic too thanks to Arkhan. The Wraiths really here to follow units that need Deathless Minion. I don't care about summoning but I think you have the right idea with Spirit Hosts, Mortis Engines, and Morghast.

Cairn Wraith (60pts)

Cairn Wraith (60pts)

Arkhan the Black (340pts)

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440pts)

Skeleton Warriors ×10 (80pts)

Skeleton Warriors ×10 (80pts)

Skeleton Warriors ×10 (80pts)

Morghast Archai ×2 (240pts)

Morghast Archai ×2 (240pts)

Spirit Hosts ×3 (120pts)

Spirit Hosts ×3 (120pts)

Spirit Hosts ×3 (120pts)

[CoffeeGrunt]

The VLoZD combos beautifully with the Spirit Hosts and makes them utterly ferocious.

[Solaris]

I think the beauty of your list, mmimzie, is how adaptable it is. If you deploy your Zombies in groups of 10, you can merge them as needed, or keep them separated to withstand heavy shooting. You also have very good magic capabilities, with 4 spellcasters and 2 Corpse Carts. I think you should stick to that huge summoning pool, but add more options to what you summon. Both the Mourngul and Archai are fantastic high rend damage dealers, and with +1 to casting you can reliably get at least the Archai onto the board. That 2 Morghasts cost as much as 40 Zombies doesn't really matter - your army doesn't need more Zombies, it needs higher quality damage.

Mortal wounds are a bit more tricky. Spirit Hosts are a good source, but you don't have a good general to boost them. Mortis Engines / Banshees are good too, but rely on the opponent having low bravery. Terrorgheist maybe?

[mmimzie]

Damage potentialwise. spirit host do about as much damage as archai point for point. (Spirits 3mortal wounds +1 normal no rend/120 pts vs archai 8 -2rend/240 points).

 

Though it does seem like keeping the summoning pool open is the strongest idea. If they have low LD and high saves i could throw down the banshee, high armour and can dish out mortal would then the archai could be better, high rend/high armor/no mortal wound targets spirits will be strongest. 

 

I May just put a mortis engine in the list for a second source of +1 to cast. leave me with a still sizeable 520 points of summoning. Possibly droping a corpse cart for 600 points of summoning since i will have the same amount of +1 to cast unit, but these can stack. 

 

also with the new balrwind vortex rule set. it seems a reasonable piece, and a great source of evasion for my VL. with all that casting bonuses i could reasonably summon a mourngul to the field on a 7+. 

[mmimzie]

11 hours ago, Malakithe said:

This is my current is the thinking. Cheap battleline. Spirit Hosts and Morghast make for the good punchy units with the VLoZD. Also some great magic too thanks to Arkhan. The Wraiths really here to follow units that need Deathless Minion. I don't care about summoning but I think you have the right idea with Spirit Hosts, Mortis Engines, and Morghast.

Cairn Wraith (60pts)

Cairn Wraith (60pts)

Arkhan the Black (340pts)

Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440pts)

Skeleton Warriors ×10 (80pts)

Skeleton Warriors ×10 (80pts)

Skeleton Warriors ×10 (80pts)

Morghast Archai ×2 (240pts)

Morghast Archai ×2 (240pts)

Spirit Hosts ×3 (120pts)

Spirit Hosts ×3 (120pts)

Spirit Hosts ×3 (120pts)

For the spirits. id co sider units of 6 or 9. this is because it lets you get more out of the VLoZD buff as it only hits one unit. 6 lets you get a nuxe surround 4 contact plus 2 on the sides getting a surrounf. 

 

9 is nice  for charge multiple units.

 

I would deploy the wraith and hold them for summoning to take advantage of running arkan in a list. they can get dropped pn ovjectives for points or to dostract enemy units.

I would maybe drop the archai from the list and summon them. Or atleast summon one. giving you the oltion of summoning some harbinger assasins to combo something down. 

I appreciate the use of skels at battleline. zombies are cheap, but i feel like your throwing points away of your bringing them as tax. The skels make great little tanks and advil units. 

End of real suggests as below is just stuff i think would be cool.

One fun idea would be droping arkan and get 2 big and fat units of spirits. i think the max is 12??? that way you can get a massive multi charge rerolling and destroy a unit. Or bring alot of small units of spirits backed up by a mortis to get some decent use out of the heal.

 

 

[Malakithe]

After reading about the summoning aspects  I may consider trying that route. I didn't realize Arkhan gets +3 to summoning! I was planning on keeping  Archai unit near him as a bodyguard but they also give +1 to summoning. So the overall units in the list look good but I can probably hold all the Spirits, a unit of Morghast, and Wraiths for summoning.

[deynon]

35 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

After reading about the summoning aspects  I may consider trying that route. I didn't realize Arkhan gets +3 to summoning! I was planning on keeping  Archai unit near him as a bodyguard but they also give +1 to summoning. So the overall units in the list look good but I can probably hold all the Spirits, a unit of Morghast, and Wraiths for summoning.

you can use the unholy sword and not needind Arkhan for a sinple summoning

[Malakithe]

I never intended only use Arkhan for summoning but mailing for MW output and magic support. But now I realize how easy he could I wouldn't waste and artefact to summon something unless it was a Mourngul. But even then the VLoZD benefits as more from the Ring or Cloak

[deynon]

it's all abput choices. I' m valuating the unholy sword more than the ring lately, but due also to the fact my general never died yet

[Malakithe]

Yeah that depends on the general. Any heroes on foot I would give the Ring too cuz they will die super fast. Of course the trait/artefact will change depending on what I want the VLoZD of do. Tanky build = Ruler/Ring/Chalice. Dmg build = Red/Cloak

[Malakithe]

New list idea! Centered around the Legion battalion. 

Arkhan The Black Mortarch of Sacrament (340)
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Night
- Artefact: Ring of Immortality
Necromancer (120)
- Artefact: Ring of Immortality
Units
Skeleton Warriors x 10 (80)
- Ancient Blade & Crypt or Tomb Shield
Skeleton Warriors x 10 (80)
- Ancient Blade & Crypt or Tomb Shield
Skeleton Warriors x 10 (80)
- Ancient Blade & Crypt or Tomb Shield
Black Knights x 10 (240)
Grave Guard x 25 (400)
- Wight Blades & Crypt Shields
Morghast Harbingers x 2 (240) - Summon
Spirit Hosts x 3 (120) - Summon
Spirit Hosts x 3 (120) - Summon
Batallions
Legion of Death (60)
Total: 2000/2000

Grave Guard will be the main block with buffs from the Necro and King. The BK will follow Arkhan of act as a screen. Arkhan will summon the Harbingers and Spirit Hosts.

Hmm maybe this is he wrong thread for this lol

[mmimzie]

@Malakithe

I look at the list, and all ican really think is kidna... Where is the everything.  What are you trying to do with this list?/??

 

The spirit host, and morghast can't hold this list up on the killy front, and you dont have enough stuff to be super tanky. 

 

 

[Malakithe]

The entire list is quite tanky with a lot of units being able to replenish itself plus the battalion. 

The Grave Guard are the main damaging unit. 50 base attacks with -1 rend and possible x2 damage on wound rolls of 6. Now add in double pile in/attack from Necro and +1A from the King. 

The units that can be summoned are also good dmg too that are here to respond to the situation.  Harbingers for long range charge to take out heroes and 3-6 Spirit Hosts can be a good road block and rip apart whatever.

And Arkhan can blast people via magic. 

[mmimzie]

Updated the list: 

VL (General, Immortal, Ruler Of the Knight)

2x Necromancers

1x Vampire Lord on abyssal

1x Corpse Cart (+1 cast0

2x Mortis Engine

9x10 zombies

~~1,580 points about

        7 zombie units worth of spawns

 

Taking 2 mortis engines. Seems to work well with the zombie horde there to protect them, and they can dish out a lot of mortal wounds to those fears of the 2+ reroll saves throwing some good surprize damage that point for point is harder to stop being 4+ save on 11 wounds for 180 points which is pretty good. Plus is current tournament formats they give you a side board where i swap in a 2nd corpse cart or more zombies.

 

[Malakithe]

Yeah that looks good. For a while I was thinking of running 2 Mortis Engines to flank the VLoZD. The combined aoe MW would be nice

[mmimzie]

So i've been running this list for a while not and i figured i go through and review how it's been doing and how the different units fair.

VLoA has (at least temperarily) been cut from my list. This guy is quite abit weak. his damage potential is a little low due to paying for that wizard tax. His rather tough, however, and makes a decent sort of assassin. The problem he has is similar to that of the Morghast harbingers in that they simply don't kill most heros or other assassination targets in one turn and come out the other side. Usually they need a 2 or more rounds of combat to kill a model, and as such he become another one of those heros you maybe don't want to make your general?? Red fury might be nice, but a VLoZD does it better. In the end he's all about speed, and while he can work as an army support unit he's a very expensive support unit making him almost not worth taking.

VL: The real hero! This one has great wound efficiency for it's price and has a nice little spell. The spell let you take the edge off all those big scary monster unit. A great support piece. As a general in a zombie army you can't get much better. Ring of immortality is this ones main squeeze using the recent FAQ. As i've gone on record previously i always felt it cost points so i had been playing it this way before the FAQ. It's great as you get a character that can survive some nasty alpha strikes and also get into combat and do a little work for a low cost. 

 

Necromancers: I've moved from 2 to 3 of these in my list. They aren't okay but in a zombie army they are required.  Multiple means you get access to a buff that keeps your zombies very competitive, and allow for a heavy summoning list to get a lot of models on the board. The deathless minion save in combo with the wound trading makes them very tough to take off the board for a wizard.  Really letting them beat out the battle wizard in effectiveness. The only difference really is that taking multiple is tough unless you have summoning because they'll start twiddling thier thumbs after 3. Either way these guys are great, and are as about as good as your summoning pool or the number of battle line you bring.

Mortis Engine: WoW!!! Okay so these guys you really need to use them very aggressively, and put them in bad places.  I was getting quite frustrated because it would seem i'd set them up behind and around my crowd of zombies, and then the next turn rolls around and the zombies killed everything i wanted to hit. Putting these guys behind enemy lines is what you need to do. First these guys aren't too squishy at 180 points they have  for a 12w/4+, and one the charge they do the same average damage as an arcane missle.  Working is duos healing each other and your heros can allow for some swingy plays. This do well against some alpha strike armies as they either tank a lot of the damage being dished out to your army, or they punished the enemy army hard for jumping down your throat.  Helping you get unlocked sooner. 

Zombies:I'm bias because these dudes are funny/fun. They have a turtle mode when you play them MSU style. Making them tough to remove, and set up for alpha strikes by merging up and throwing your army of buffs onto the unit.  The rez banners can be used in some silly ways. They work well with sinister terrain to get your models up the board for free. The VL buff has the highest effectiveness on these guys, and is all you need to make these guys a hard hitting unit.  On average 40 of these guys with only +1 attack from the VL can take out 2 units of decimators or retributors in a single turn hitting well above thier weight class. Combo that with VDM and you can do that kind of damage twice. These guys fall a bit short to 2+ rerollable saves lacking any sort of rend (though i find this to be a kind of a death wide problem). 

Spirit host: Cool, but they suck for being summoned. However, they are kind of like 1.5 arcane bolts, but unless taken in mass simply have a tough time really putting out the wounds.

Carin wraith: Have been my saving grace for Pieces of power. These guys cost the same as 10 zombies and hold objectives well.  The ignoring rend just makes them very tough for the points cost.

Banshees: The price point makes them weird in my summoning pool. Simply put they just don't do enough. I've only used them occasionally against artillery crew, but no one brings such things in competitive play. 

Dire wolves: another one of my favorite units. These guys are cheap for being so tanky, and easily summoned. Usually i use this to punish people who let me go first. Effectively cutting the map in half, and with the large amount of zombies i have i deny 2/3 of the map.  easily able to get a 3+ save (corpse cart + mystic shield) and geting 20 wounds at just 120 points seems nice. 

Bale wind vortex: Very goind piece important to get spells off. I use it before casting VDM because it kind of gives me a ghetto rerolling on the spell. if i fail to get the vortex off odds are i'd have also failed to get VDM off. So then the next necromancer can give it a try. if i am successful, then the next necromancer can get a chance to cast VDM normally. It's also great on pieces of power. If your here gets to teh objective and you set this up. You own this objective for pretty much the rest of the game. 

 Current death weaknesses seems to be turn 1. We really don't do much turn 1. WIth alpha strike and fast armies who can take the board. turn one feel a bit tough difficult to deal with, even more so if the enemy goes first and keeps us from summoning or getting any board control. Summoning is a big part of death, but something that is difficult to use, and out side of summoning zombies something you really only do in turn 1 or 2. After that it's kind of not worth doing.