Looting Tomb Kings?

[CoffeeGrunt]

Has anyone else tried sprinkling in Tomb Kings units into current Death to cover gaps in our abilities? I'm currently looking at the possibility of Skeleton Archers and perhaps Horse Archers, as I find my lists really lack in ranged ability as standard.

I was actually surprised to find that Skeleton Archers are keyworded as Death, Skeleton and Deathrattle, but not included in the Deathrattle list? Looking at them, they're really mediocre with a 20" weapon with 5+/4+/-/1, but they get two shots each if there's at least 20, and a Wight King can give them an extra shot for 3 each, which might help mitigate their awful accuracy. At 200pts for 20 they could wither units down over time and help mitigate how much damage I take on the charge.

I like the idea of having phalanxes of swords, spears and bows marching to battle just like ye olde tymes, and sticking bows on Skeleton Warriors should be a tough conversion. Might even convert up some Black Knights to be Skeleton Horse Archers, as those seem alright for a light harassment unit. Just gotta find ways to mitigate their awful accuracy, either by re-rolls or +1 to Hit, etc.

[Solaris]

I play it the other way, with Tomb Kings as a base and sprinkling in other units. If you want to field archers, Khalida is beastly as you general. However, I do think you need to commit for it to be worthwhile. The catapults are not very impressive, but the reduction to Bravery can be very useful together with things like Tomb Banshees, Terrorgheists or Mournguls. If you use catapults, then make sure to convert a Necrotect to go with them. The Necrotect is absolutely stellar with a lot of Deathrattle units, and Grave Guard in particular get a lot out of his buff (+3" move is great, and being able to reroll 1s to wound is fantastic on a unit that wounds on 3+ and does double damage on 6s to wound). There is also another unit that benefits massively from the Necrotect buff, and is already one of the absolute strongest units in the game, namely:

Necropolis Knights! They have insane damage output, a 4+ save in combat, and regen 5 wounds each turn. They are great with basically every single buff you can throw their way: Vanhel's, the Wight King's, VLoZD, etc... Buff them up and watch them tear your foes into shreds. I played a game against another Death player recently, where he charged his 5 Blood Knights into my 3 fully buffed Necropolis Knights. He killed on of mine, and then my remaining two ripped all 5 Blood Knights into shreds. Depending on how you theme your army, you could easily convert some of these to fit in with the theme. You could have Grave Guard riding large werewolves, or animated statues, or whatever other type of deathly monster strikes your fashion.

Chariots are good also, mainly because they are Battleline, and because they regen 5 wounds per turn. If you run Chariots and Necropolis Knights, bring a Tomb Herald for some filthy 10 wound regen per unit per turn.

I think Settra, in 2000 point battles, is probably the best, and at least one of the two best generals that we can get, the other one being Neferata. His offensive potential is insane, he is really tanky, and if you have the right list his command ability will put your whole army on steroids. +1 to hit and to wound for all Deathrattle units within 18" and +1 to hit for all Death units within 18" is crazy. Consider a list with a lot of Spirit Hosts for example, they will deal insane amounts of mortal wounds just by being on the same half of the board as Settra. He also improves your Skeletons a lot, and Necropolis Knights and Grave Guard get amazing bonuses from being close to him (their bonus damage procs on 5+ to wound instead of 6+). Even Wight Kings get a considerable damage boost from being close to Settra. Then he can double the movement of one unit and give it the ability to fly each turn (can be combined with the Necrotect buff). This can make your Grave Guard move 8", or a whopping 14" if you include the Necrotect. Settra also lets other mummy heroes use their command abilities, which is great.

I like Skeleton Horsemen over Black Knights because they are Battleline and cost 20 points less, but both units fill the same niche. I don't have any experience with Horse Archers, so I cannot comment on them much. They seem like a fun harassment unit though, especially in a Khalida army.

Liche Priests are great too, their spell is on par with Vanhel's, and they get an automatic dispel each battle on top of it. Their spell can be combined with +1 to hit sources (Khalida, Tomb King) to procc extra attacks on 5+. Skeleton Archers can be absolutely lethal when supported by a TK and LP: they shoot two arrows per turn, hit on 4+, and every roll of 5+ generates an extra arrow. The LP can also cast his spell on Reanimants, unlike the Necromancer, which includes Morghasts (if you also have Settra they will get extra attacks on each hit roll of 5+).

There's a lot more synergies you can find, but this is probably long enough already. If you are open to throwing in some TK units in your army, it can be incredibly strong.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Damn, Khalida is good! I think it'll be fun to convert models to fit Tomb Kings units, too. Hmmm, can I do an all-skeleton army? I think I'll have to look at my lists and work things out.

[Solaris]

You've already start converting, with your VLoZD and all  Might as well continue!

[Oppenheimer]

I combine the two as well. Archers are okay. Catapults with a necrotect are good. Necropolis Knights are a power house in a death rattle army. Aphophis is great for warmachine hunting. Never find a great use for horse archers. Chariots are good tar pit battleline.

I wish they had combined at least some of the TK models in with the grand alliance death book. Some are quite new :-(

[CoffeeGrunt]

I'm thinking of running the Cold Iron Legion formation, Settra, and then working it out from there. I'm hoping I can rely on Skeletons to carry the day through weight of numbers for the most part, might sprinkle in some Spirit Hosts to deal with the really tough stuff.

[Solaris]

What is the Cold Iron Legion?  Never heard of that one.

[CoffeeGrunt]

The only Formation Deathrattle get. I can't remember what it's called. Legion of Death?

[TerrorPenguin]

5 minutes ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

The only Formation Deathrattle get. I can't remember what it's called. Legion of Death?

That's it - extra regen on models and extra 4" move if they are close to the wight king

[CoffeeGrunt]

Seems like a good foundation, IMO. I accidentally misread Khalida's Command Ability. I thought it was a +1 to Hit for the whole turn, not just the Shooting Phase.

Still, Settra seems to be really good. In larger games I might end up running him with a "retinue" of subcommanders.

[Darth Alec]

Combined TK/Death is awesome. You get so many more options. Definitely worth it. Bit expensive to find new boxes of stuff though. My army is about 50/50 TK/Death, and works really well.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I'll be converting everything, so it'll either be much cheaper, or more expensive.

[Solaris]

Khalida is only in the shooting phase, and Settra is only in the combat phase. They are both good in principle, however since the units synergizing with Settra are much stronger than the units synergizing with Khalida I would say Settra is the much superior choice. He also has strong synergies with units in the Deathrattle and Nighthaunt subfactions.

I've run Settra together with a Royal Warsphinx and a Tomb King. 3 command abilities per turn is extremely strong.

[Nico]

I agree.  I would go further and say that Khalida isn't worthwhile any more given the hard nerf to exploding attacks in the rule of one. She was still good under SCGT.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Okay, prospective 1500pt list below. Let me know your thoughts:

Settra (360)

Tomb King (100)

3 Spirit Hosts (120)

3 Spirit Hosts (120)

Legion of Death: (800)

Mounted Wight King

30 Skeletons, Spears

10 Skeletons, Swords

10 Skeletons, Swords

10 Grave Guard

5 Black Knights

 

The advantage of this list is that I already have everything except the Tomb King and Settra. (In fact, everything except the Spears and Grave Guard aside from them is also fully-painted, and even those are nearing completion.) The Tomb King I can kitbash together from spare bitz, Settra will be a bit trickier and will require some scrabbing-together of random things to make my own Celtic/Nordic analogue of him. Might see if I can try it out tonight.

Would anyone consider it cheesy to use a Wight King model to represent the Tomb King? It's got sword + shield, it's the right size, etc. It'll fit into the overall theme better, too.

[Solaris]

21 minutes ago, Nico said:

I agree.  I would go further and say that Khalida isn't worthwhile any more given the hard nerf to exploding attacks in the rule of one. She was still good under SCGT.

You may be right. Being limited to one use of Righteous Smiting per turn, and exploding attacks only being able to proc once, drastically reduces the power of Khalida lists.

[ElectricPaladin]

One of the main things that's stopping me is that as the combination painter/collector/player that I am, I'm not sure if I want to start spending money on lines that won't be updated and might eventually be fully squatted. It might win me some games in the short run, but it'll make me feel sad in the long run if I end up lovingly painting and converting up some archers or a necrosphynx or whatever only to have it shelved.

[Solaris]

2 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said:

Would anyone consider it cheesy to use a Wight King model to represent the Tomb King? It's got sword + shield, it's the right size, etc. It'll fit into the overall theme better, too.

Nope, but since you already have a Wight King in your list, you should make sure that the Tomb King looks distinctly different so there is no confusion for your opponent.

I like this list, I think it looks significantly stronger than the other lists that you have posted. Note that the WK procs Beheading Strike on 5+ when within 18" of Settra - he becomes so much stronger! Expanding to 2000, I would add a wizard of some sort (whichever you prefer), 10 more Skeletons to the spearman unit and 3 Necropolis Knights. Any remaining points can be spent on whatever you like, this will be a strong list.

[LJ26]

How would you guys Kit bashed necropolis knights? I'm looking at skeletons riding tyranid raveners , don't know if they're to small tho as the necropolis snakes look huge on those chariot sized bases

[CoffeeGrunt]

Realised as I was setting up for a test game with the above list that I'd forgotten to account for the cost of the Formation itself.

The list I tried out ended up being the same, but with the Tomb King and 10 Spear Skeletons being swapped for 5 more Black Knights.

Game went really well though. Settra is a buff monster and made everything in my army hit so much more reliably, especially with the Legion of Death formation to get bonus movement. Grave Guard in particular were brutal, though we ever they got slaughtered by a reprisal charge.

Put it this way, from turn two onwards I was controlling all but one objective on a flank in Border War. This list is way more aggressive than my usual lists, with made it more fun to pay, and a real surprise for my opponent!