Dracothjay Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Hi people if the graveyard! I have played forces of order for a long time now and want to start something I never really gave a thought to. I want to start a death army and have been looking at the FEC starter set. However, I'm not really into the whole summoning thing and prefer to deploy, march and grind in battle. Im loving the look of the vampire models, so if I wanted to start there, what's the best course of action? I have my eye on a vampire Lord on dragon ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanatos Ares Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Brilliant place to start! Vamp Lord on Dragon is a brutal model in game and a brilliant centre piece model for your army aswellSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 That's how I'm going to start too. VLoZD. My current mixed list I'm liking... LEADERS Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440) Arkhan The Black (340) UNITS Skeleton Warriors x 10 (80) Skeleton Warriors x 10 (80) Skeleton Warriors x 10 (80) Morghast Archai x 2 (240) Morghast Archai x 2 (240) Spirit Hosts x 3 (120) Spirit Hosts x 3 (120) Spirit Hosts x 3 (120) Spirit Hosts x 3 (120) I'm probably going to drop a Spirit Hosts for 2 Cairn Wraiths to follow the Spirit Hosts and spread Deathless Minion. Also I really like that Mourngul...need to fit that guy in lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracothjay Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Are grave guard any good? I have a lack of death knowledge, but aren't there synergies where grave guard become brutal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 With full death rattle plus certain spells and abilities they can be but unless you are using the battalion most stick to normal skellies or zombies. Unless your going the FEC route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracothjay Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 see, an easy way of breaking into death is going the FEC route as it's a money saver and good starter set, but I don't like the models. Never been into the whole ghoul thing, but I'm liking the complexities of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 The VLoZD and all Mortarchs make for excellent generals for your army, however the Mortarchs come with distinct play styles and you need to build your list around them. If you love vampires, then Blood Knights are a really strong and solid unit. Spirit Hosts are also a great unit, and are amazing when buffed by a VLoZD (extra mortal wounds are great). Grave Guard are fantastic, there is no need to go heavily into Deathrattle for them to be good. Buff them with Vanhel's and your command ability, and they will mess things up. If you do like Deathrattle, however, the Legion of Death formation is a great base for an army. If you take Skeletons, they are by far the best in groups of 40 (with spears), or in groups of 10 (with swords) - groups of 20 or 30 are very inefficient in comparison. Summoning is a useful tool, but by no means necessary. If you don't like it, don't use it. You'll be fine. Also, if you don't mind doing some conversion work, there are some real gems in the Tomb Kings army. If you are interested, I can give you mountain loads of tips on how to build your list and play with these. Hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracothjay Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Thanks for the advice! Any tips would be helpful and mostly appreciated. It's a bieither overwhelming as death is so vast I don't know what to go with! So actually thinking, would the soulblight starter set be better for my rather the FEC ? and I do mean to plan my army around multiple lords/Heros, my VLoZD being the apple of my eye so to speak! What wizards should I be looking at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 There is no Soulblight starter set, sadly. If you would like a Mortarch, I definitely recommend the Start Collecting! Skeletons Horde kit. Otherwise, if you would like either a Coven Throne or a Mortis Engine, I would recommend the Start Collecting! Malignants kit. They are both great deals, I have one of each. As for other heros, the Coven Throne is good. Necromancers, Wight Kings and Vampire Lords are great also, fantastic support characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I'm finding as I play Death, that unlike other Grand Alliances where you can normally do well with a single sub-faction, Death really have to grab a bit of everything across all their atrophied sub-factions. There's a lot of opportunity for synergy though, and I personally think Deathrattle is a good foundation to use, with other factions adding elements to cover certain roles. E.g., Spirit Hosts are great for dealing with elite units that get low numbers of high-rend attacks, and rely on good saves. Blood Knights are kings of killing pretty much everything, but cost a million pounds per model. The VLoZD is a model I'm told is awesome, but has consistently failed me due to my woeful dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undead4Life Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 If you're into the whole March n' Grind idea, 40 spear skellies with Vanhels and the foot Vampire's command ability are pretty brutal! Yesterday I had them take down a Spirit of Durthu, 3 Kurnoth Hunters and 10 HE Swordmasters all at the same time with about 15 Skeletons left standing when the dust settled. If you're going to use the VLoZD I would recommend him in a guided missile role. Your infantry and such needs the general to be a supporting character as, without buffs and synergies, GA Death can struggle. I can totally vouch for Blood Knights being face-stompers! I have five and I'm looking at getting ten more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 4 hours ago, Solaris said: If you take Skeletons, they are by far the best in groups of 40 (with spears), or in groups of 10 (with swords) - groups of 20 or 30 are very inefficient .... I wouldn't say "very" inefficient. Groups of 30 are still a pain to get rid of and dish out enough damage. And I don't want to paint any more of them! Why do people think units of 10 are useful? Whenever I've used units of 10 they just get deleted.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sej Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I love banshees, a pain in the back side to kill and gives you a very short range shooting attack. You can do some serious damage to anyone with a low leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 11 minutes ago, Carnelian said: I wouldn't say "very" inefficient. Groups of 30 are still a pain to get rid of and dish out enough damage. And I don't want to paint any more of them! Why do people think units of 10 are useful? Whenever I've used units of 10 they just get deleted.... In comparison to a group of 40, a group of 30 is certainly inefficient. Lose one model, and you lose 33 attacks! Fielding 30 Skeletons is, for me, a last resort when I cannot afford 40. And then I'd probably take another 20 out and use the 160 points on something else instead. Groups of 10 are useful in that you can leave them on an objective without losing out on combat power. You can also use them as a screen to soak charges, ensuring that your important units can get into the fight unscathed. This, I've found, is extremely potent. Groups of 10 are not useful for the damage they do. They are useful because they are disposable - the more damage my opponent wastes on them, the happier I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnelian Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 28 minutes ago, Solaris said: In comparison to a group of 40, a group of 30 is certainly inefficient. Lose one model, and you lose 33 attacks! That's a fair point but how often do you get all the models in a unit into combat at once! However you are rigth that it's a big loss. That's some great uses for units of 10. Will think about that next time I'm playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Carnelian said: That's a fair point but how often do you get all the models in a unit into combat at once! However you are rigth that it's a big loss. That's some great uses for units of 10. Will think about that next time I'm playing You usually don't get all of them into combat, I agree, so my example is slightly exaggerated. However, losing one attack per model still hurts a lot, so whenever I can I will bring extra bodies to prevent that from happening. 10-man units are nice because they fill up your battleline slots and can be very useful. Put them in a line in front of one of your important units and see your opponent waste his Stonehorn charge on something you don't give a ****** about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Yep 3×10 is what I'm thinking just as a screen. Support them with a cheap Cairn Wraith then park them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracothjay Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 So I'm thinking of starting the skeleton horde starter set then adding from there. All your talk has been sound and clear, will have to think long and hard on what I want to achieve when planning my first 1000 point list. However, Arkhan the Black does not impress me. Is he a good conbatatant as he doesn't look that powerful on paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 If you want to make a nice cheap list that isn't garbage or that wont see you always table. You could get something like 2 Mortarch +skel boxs, and 2xMortis engine +spirits/hex. You may also ahve to get a second box of skels. This will gives you 2 mortis engins, 2x3 spirit host, 2x10man Skelhorsmen units, and 2x 10man skel units + 1 unit 10xskells. 2x mortarchs. I think the mortis engine would wonders in that list mostly keeping your mortarchs, skels horses, and Spirits on thier feet. Then also providing a decent amount of late game AoE damage. I'd make Manfred and nerferrata. Make Manfred your general to make your spirits abit more scary, or neferata to make your list a bit harder to remove. The skels will let you you have battleline and with sword and shields will be annoying to remove. You could fill out the list or replace stuff with archai or some kind. Allowing you to get more out of the mortis engine healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracothjay Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 Does the starter kit allow the choice of making manfred or other mortarchs, or is it only arkhan assemble only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Whichever you like =) You can also assemble the Black Knights as Hexwraiths, if you prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracothjay Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 With the skeleton warriors, the raise skeleton spell has me confused. Even when it said 'a unit of 10 is ADDED to your army' does that meant you still have to pay for them in your list construction or is this a freeby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 40 minutes ago, Dracothjay said: With the skeleton warriors, the raise skeleton spell has me confused. Even when it said 'a unit of 10 is ADDED to your army' does that meant you still have to pay for them in your list construction or is this a freeby? You have to pay in points each time you set up (add) a new unit. You don't have to pay to restore models to an existing unit. In this case, yes you would need to use reinforcement points as you are adding a unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 I'm taking Arkhan in my list but not as general. The VLoZD will be the general since he an take a trait and artefact and the mortarchs can't. Imo Arkhan and Neferrata really support heroes. Good spells on them both. Manny is a combat beast but also costs the most and can't take a artefact. You could build up the Legion and build around it. With banners in all units they all regain models so it's super resilient. Also IMO the only hints worth summoning are Spirit Hosts and he Mourngul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 you can still take artifacts. I does have to go on your general. Nefs command ability is also very similar to ruler of the night, Being in some ways much better and in other ways worse. Manfreds cammand ability is as good as the VLoZD when used on blood knight or other similar units, but it's AoE and thus can effect multiple such units getting you way more bang for your buck. Summoning wise Hexwraiths and Drie wolves (if you have a corpse cart). Make amazing turn 1 walls. These effectively negate your opponnent from forcing you to have first turn, as the wall of hex wraiths or Dire wolves will force your opponent to have to get through them before making any charges and both those units are very tanky. The Dire Wolve in my opinion are better as they are cheap, very hard to kill, and take up alot of space when you get the double summon off. The Hex wraiths only really work well against high rend forces, but even then they can only block off a much smaller foot print. Zombies and skels can do this too, but they take up alot less space Banshees are great at sniping warmachine crew as you can pick to target the crew and usualy it'll let you kill a couple if not all the dudes. Harbingers make great alpha strike units allowing you to assasinate enemy heros that deploy poorly. Summoning zombies to refill your zombie units is also a good use of summoning. edit: Carin wraiths/banshees in games where you can use them to hold opjectives like pieces of power. Can be summoned as easy objective cappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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