Best lists formations for order

[Fellclaw01]

Hi guys, since starting age of sigma i found the order faction really under powered and struggling against all other factions

i have some success with gunline empire with protectors but there are chaos lists i just cant deal with like clan skrye and bloodletter bomb armies

ive noticed similar stuff with order players in my area so i was hoping to compile the best order lists to give us order guys some hope

[kozokus]

Depends, Skryre is weak against hordes of...anything and teleportion lists in general. As for the bloodletter bomb, a single medusa can severly punish ennemy hordes tactics.

[Aeonotakist]

Clan Skyrye need to be countered by Gryph Hounds.

Hordes enemy... there are different kinds of hordes enemy and Order have counters to all of them, even dont need to envolve Medusa.

 

In AOS if your enemy is playing cheese you can always cheese back. But for utility use Order has always been a very powerful force that why they perform well in most tournaments. (Like normal Sylvaneth, Skyborn and Free Guide shooting)

[Fellclaw01]

You cant use gryph hounds to beat the clan skrye formation as they pop in the command phase and then move defeating the grpyh hound rallying cry as it only occurs in the setup stage not when they are move

tbh a couple of crappy shooting units are not going to do anything against battleline stormfiends who have 6 wounds each

tried both the skyborne slayers and warrior brotherhood and they have no chance

stormcast really dont do enough damage to be threatening to msu stormfiends also these formations are far less flexible as they have far more limitation ie they arrive in movement meaning no hero phase etc

as for hordes heard this a couple of times but would love to hear how to make this work as the way i see it the cheapest unit for battleline is 80

pts which is not really horde material

[Fellclaw01]

46 minutes ago, Aeonotakist said:

Clan Skyrye need to be countered by Gryph Hounds.

Hordes enemy... there are different kinds of hordes enemy and Order have counters to all of them, even dont need to envolve Medusa.

 

In AOS if your enemy is playing cheese you can always cheese back. But for utility use Order has always been a very powerful force that why they perform well in most tournaments. (Like normal Sylvaneth, Skyborn and Free Guide shooting)

I suspect order performs well because they are popular and lots of people and i dont think they are seeing the calibre of chaos lists im facing (as per the published lists)

ive beaten beastclaws and a chaos army with 4 chaos mamoths but cant find anything that has a hope against some of the lists even korgoroth spam (they are so undercosted at 80pts try taking on 6 or so)

id like to see some top tier order lists for some new ideas as i havent seen much so far

[Zitroni]

3 hours ago, Fellclaw01 said:

Hi guys, since starting age of sigma i found the order faction really under powered and struggling against all other factions

i have some success with gunline empire with protectors but there are chaos lists i just cant deal with like clan skrye and bloodletter bomb armies

ive noticed similar stuff with order players in my area so i was hoping to compile the best order lists to give us order guys some hope

Age of Σ ?

Sorry, i had to

[Aeonotakist]

1 hour ago, Fellclaw01 said:

I suspect order performs well because they are popular and lots of people and i dont think they are seeing the calibre of chaos lists im facing (as per the published lists)

ive beaten beastclaws and a chaos army with 4 chaos mamoths but cant find anything that has a hope against some of the lists even korgoroth spam (they are so undercosted at 80pts try taking on 6 or so)

id like to see some top tier order lists for some new ideas as i havent seen much so far

AOS is very complicated because they are not like 8th that an army is trong means it's strong against everything. They have counter relationship. Most cases niche list have 60% win chance against utility lists but got countered  very hard by some other niche lists (0% chance to win). 

The popular Order lists are mostly utility (due to requirement of tournament). Thus they seem underpowered facing staff like Korgoroth spam. But if your also go to niche list in Order you can as well counter anything you may face in other fiction.

 

For example talking about simple korgoroth spam, SE also has very undercost unit which is Prosecutors with Jevelin. 80 pts for very high damage (4A/3+/3+/-1/2D in 18') ranged unit, just compare their profile you will find korgoroth stand no chance.

For most horde army yewe have Medusa.

For standard melee focused lists we have Hearthguard Brethern Battlion which gives you 3+ to save. Or Cauldan of Blood spam which gives you 4 times 5+ ward save and very deadly Witch Aelf.

For ranged focus list like Kunning Orcs, we have best anti-ranged unit Falmulators, or just deep strike on top of them 

For deep dive list we have Gryph Hounds (you know how desepratedly Destruction want to get it?)

 

We call Skyborn powerful because it is effective in Tournament. They get 30%~60% chance to win almost everything which is a must in Tournament settings. Some list like Skryre might get auto win against one list, but got auto lost against shooting spam Gryph Hounds. So they cannot really show up as top 3 or 5 unless they are very lucky.

But Skyborn indeed is weak against lots of things. They sacroficed their power to get a chance against any kinds of enemies.

 

Back to the topic, in AOS 'what is powerful' will finally turn to 'scissor rock cloth' type of games. But at least in Order you can find all of sissor rock and cloth so you dont have anything you cannot deal with.

 

 

[Aeonotakist]

1 hour ago, Fellclaw01 said:

You cant use gryph hounds to beat the clan skrye formation as they pop in the command phase and then move defeating the grpyh hound rallying cry as it only occurs in the setup stage not when they are move

tbh a couple of crappy shooting units are not going to do anything against battleline stormfiends who have 6 wounds each

tried both the skyborne slayers and warrior brotherhood and they have no chance

stormcast really dont do enough damage to be threatening to msu stormfiends also these formations are far less flexible as they have far more limitation ie they arrive in movement meaning no hero phase etc

as for hordes heard this a couple of times but would love to hear how to make this work as the way i see it the cheapest unit for battleline is 80

pts which is not really horde material

 

If you have this problem then I would say you are not playing very well. Gryph hounds and Skyborn was indeed the lists eliminated all Skaven Skryre in Warlords/ FaceHammer and HellanHammer. None of any Skryre enter even top 10 in those three tournaments and at least I know 4 games of Skyborn or Freepeople with Gryph defeated Skryre.

 

Gryph Hounds has 10' alert range. Set them up at 7' away from your main shooting troops, then if Stromfiends popup 11' then move and shot, they can only hit hounds not your core unit. Unless they get a double turn, or they will be easily defeated.   

If you are carrying crappy shooting, then it's your problem. Order just got the best shooting in AOS.

 

Skyborn also can counter Skryre but you need a Prime. First put some Prosecutors with Jevelin and Judicators which are enough to kill the Arch-warlock, force Skaven to launch their first Covern crew. Then launch Skyborn to clean first covern up and wait for the second covern (remember to spread your army as wide as possible). When the second launched and killed 60%~70% of your force, deep strike Prime in Round 4~5, reroll his charge with special ability and clean up the Stormfiends first. Skryre cna only launch twice and have nothing on the table in the beginning. However Skyborn with Prime also launch twice and have ability to put quite something on the table when setup.

 

I dont think your opponents can play better than those Skryre users in tournament. So just learn from those real cases how Skryre fail against Skyborn. 

[Fellclaw01]

Do you have the skryer lists that were used?

[Fellclaw01]

By crappy shooting im talking about judicators, they are decent for character sniping but heavy lifting forget it

[Alexxk]

VS horde style armies, Drycha Hamadreth is an even better answer! When she is unwounded, she gets a mortal wound on 3+ with her squirmlings! When her mood is right, its even reroll 1s! And I think on 18" range!

[Aeonotakist]

19 hours ago, Fellclaw01 said:

By crappy shooting im talking about judicators, they are decent for character sniping but heavy lifting forget it

I agree on this, the Judicators are under performance as 160pts campare with other shooting troop. We have to include them mainly because they are battleline and necessary for most competitive formation.

But in most quests you have to get someone sit on objectives. If you send melee troop or short ranged unit to sit there they are wasted for the remaining of the battle. Judicators at least can do something.

 

And for Skryre, there is very limited space for any modification. The standard Skryre will be Arch-Warlock, Warlock Engineer x2, Stormfiends units x3, Warp-Grinders x2 and Warpfire Throwers x6.

One covern group will includes 2*3 Stormfiend and one includes 3 Stormfiend.

 

 

[Aeonotakist]

18 hours ago, Alexxk said:

VS horde style armies, Drycha Hamadreth is an even better answer! When she is unwounded, she gets a mortal wound on 3+ with her squirmlings! When her mood is right, its even reroll 1s! And I think on 18" range!

Drycha Hamadreth is good but bit expensive. It's 280pts but Medusa on Shrine is only 140pts, with a extremely high wounds of 12.

140 pts monster with 12 wounds I cannot ask for more.

[AlexHarrison]

I actually really like Drycha and I'm suprised people don't take her much. Give her a 2+ save and with a 9" move can get her swarm into range quite quickly! Let Kurnoth Hunters deal with the big monsters and Drycha to deal with the chaff. I was thinking of Drycha buffed with either a battle mage to heal D3 wounds or Lore Master to make her a combat monster with potentially 12 talon attack and 2d6 other attacks. Very brutal against horde units! 

[Kindling]

On Friday, October 28, 2016 at 5:29 PM, AlexHarrison said:

I actually really like Drycha and I'm suprised people don't take her much. Give her a 2+ save and with a 9" move can get her swarm into range quite quickly! Let Kurnoth Hunters deal with the big monsters and Drycha to deal with the chaff. I was thinking of Drycha buffed with either a battle mage to heal D3 wounds or Lore Master to make her a combat monster with potentially 12 talon attack and 2d6 other attacks. Very brutal against horde units! 

I think the chance of her laying waste to herself and your own troops with her Flitterfuries turns most away from her.

[Aezeal]

On ‎27‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 10:28 AM, Fellclaw01 said:

I suspect order performs well because they are popular and lots of people and i dont think they are seeing the calibre of chaos lists im facing (as per the published lists)

ive beaten beastclaws and a chaos army with 4 chaos mamoths but cant find anything that has a hope against some of the lists even korgoroth spam (they are so undercosted at 80pts try taking on 6 or so)

id like to see some top tier order lists for some new ideas as i havent seen much so far

I think some Chaos and Destruction have access to more and cheesier lists that is true. Without the cheese it's about equal. And due to their boni those chaos and destruction lists (with more raw power boni like more attacks, better to wound rolls and more mortal wounds) are more easily used. Order has more subtle boni which are harder to use well (more dependand on circumstances) this fits with the fluff but even if boni from formations etc are equally strong when used well (this is also an assumption) then the one more easily and generally used will have the advantage in more cases.

I hear good thinks about GAO with multiple hurricanes etc.

 

[Aezeal]

4 hours ago, Kindling said:

I think the chance of her laying waste to herself and your own troops with her Flitterfuries turns most away from her.

Against hordes the squirmlings might be better in any case. And she is a mage with access to regrowth (heal 1D6). And unlike other mages she will be near enemy magicians so she might actually use dispel (I've REALLY not seen that used a lot in game with mages on both sides staying back). 

[Kindling]

1 hour ago, Aezeal said:

Against hordes the squirmlings might be better in any case. And she is a mage with access to regrowth (heal 1D6). And unlike other mages she will be near enemy magicians so she might actually use dispel (I've REALLY not seen that used a lot in game with mages on both sides staying back). 

Isn't there a 50/50 chance she could be either Enraged (Flitterfuries) or Embittered (Squirmlings)?

I intend to use her because I like the character, but I know a lot of players who won't take the risk.

[Nico]

She picks one ranged weapon at the start of the game (or potentially on your list submission which sucks if you cannot switch each game). The 50-50 relates to different buffs which affect one or the other ranged weapon. This is a further reason to go Squirmlings since the buff either makes here melee a lot better or buffs Squirmlings (so win win), while the other option is a 50% chance of derp if you take Flitterfuries.

[Kindling]

10 hours ago, Nico said:

She picks one ranged weapon at the start of the game (or potentially on your list submission which sucks if you cannot switch each game). The 50-50 relates to different buffs which affect one or the other ranged weapon. This is a further reason to go Squirmlings since the buff either makes here melee a lot better or buffs Squirmlings (so win win), while the other option is a 50% chance of derp if you take Flitterfuries.

Thanks for the clarification. I missed the either word in the description.