Command Trait & Command Ability

[meet.the.doctor]

I am not sure if I am not missing something in the rules but:

If I get the Command Trait in addition to Command Ability can I use BOTH in the same hero phase (same character-general). Eg. Orruk Warboss uses Waaagh! (+1 attack) & Bellowing Tyrant (+1 hit). Or they are equal : either I use Trait or Ability.

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[BaldoBeardo]

I am not sure if I am not missing something in the rules but:
If I get the Command Trait in addition to Command Ability can I use BOTH in the same hero phase (same character-general). Eg. Orruk Warboss uses Waaagh! (+1 attack) & Bellowing Tyrant (+1 hit). Or they are equal : either I use Trait or Ability.
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Traits are "in addition to their command abilities".
Although some traits activate in a specific phase, most are 'passive'.
You get both and can use both, unless specified otherwise.

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[Knight-Errant]

Nope, you cant.They are both command abilities and 1 command ability can be used, unless stated otherwise

 

COMMAND ABILITY
In your hero phase, your general can
use one command ability. All generals
have the Inspiring Presence command
ability, and some may have more on
their warscroll.

Furthermore :

Bellowing Tyrant: Pick a friendly DESTRUCTION unit (which means its not passive)
within D6" of the general in your hero phase. Add 1 to
the hit rolls for that unit until your next hero phase.

COMMAND ABILITY Waaagh!: If an Orruk Warboss uses this ability, then all Orruk units from your army that are within 12" when they attack in your next combat phase are frenzied. All models in these units make 1 extra attack with all of their melee weapons.

[meet.the.doctor]

Nope, you cant.They are both command abilities and 1 command ability can be used, unless stated otherwise
 
COMMAND ABILITY
In your hero phase, your general can
use one command ability. All generals
have the Inspiring Presence command
ability, and some may have more on
their warscroll.
Furthermore :
Bellowing Tyrant: Pick a friendly DESTRUCTION unit (which means its not passive)
within D6" of the general in your hero phase. Add 1 to
the hit rolls for that unit until your next hero phase.
COMMAND ABILITY Waaagh!: If an Orruk Warboss uses this ability, then all Orruk units from your army that are within 12" when they attack in your next combat phase are frenzied. All models in these units make 1 extra attack with all of their melee weapons.

That is clear to me but the rules concern Command ABILITIES, not Command TRAIT. I am not native english speaker so I am not sure if they are equal. That is why I started this topic. I think that if it is not stated anywhere you could use both at the same time.


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[Knight-Errant]

COMMAND TRAITS
In addition to their command abilities,
the general of an ORDER army can
have one command trait from the list
below.

Otherwise it would say,

In addition a general of an order army can have one command trait from the list below.

 

Also, rules and matched play rules do not state that you can use both.But, rules say, use one command ability.

[BaldoBeardo]

Yes. Trait. Not ability. Command abilities are limited, but traits are not abilities...

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[Bowlzee]

Command Ability and Command Traits are separate. 

You can use 1 Command Ability and 1 Command Trait per hero phase.

[Aaron Schmidt]

This is a good example of writing which could be more clear. They are two types of rules which behave in a similar way and are used in the hero phase, but they have different names which implies on some level that are not the same thing, that 'traits' and 'abilities' are different things. The sentence quoted from the rules 'in addition to their command abilities...' isn't clear enough to and can be interpreted several ways. This one is tricky, I am not sure which way of playing it is correct. 

[Squirrelmaster]

Traits like this are "abilities" in the dictionary sense of "possession of the means or skill to do something", but they are not "command abilities". They are just "abilities that can be used in the hero phase".

Stating that they are taken "in addition to command abilities" does not make them "command abilities". Nothing in the rules states that these are "command abilities".

If I have an apple, and someone says "in addition to this apple, you may take a banana", that does not imply that the banana is an apple.

[ThePhyx]

My issue is if I pick a named character to be my commander then I'm not allowed to pick a command trait to go with my named character's command ability. Yet if I pick a non-named hero, I can get the CA on their warscroll, and a command trait, plus I can give them an artefact. How does this make sense?

Which is why my group equates ability and trait. 

[Squirrelmaster]

31 minutes ago, ThePhyx said:

My issue is if I pick a named character to be my commander then I'm not allowed to pick a command trait to go with my named character's command ability. Yet if I pick a non-named hero, I can get the CA on their warscroll, and a command trait, plus I can give them an artefact. How does this make sense?

Which is why my group equates ability and trait. 

It makes sense mainly because it's a balancing mechanism more than story-driven — named characters include a lot of models who are way more powerful, or just plain weirder, than un-named characters, so allowing them command traits & artifacts would unbalance the game more.

Also because traits & artefacts are for customising your characters, making them slightly more "unique" than a normal, generic hero.

I mean, GW have added the fluff of "named characters already have their traits and artefacts built-in, so you can't give them more", and presumably this rule was taken into account when they balanced the rules for these characters, but I don't think it really has to make more sense than "because the rules say so".

In any case, your argument seems to be something of a non-sequitur — how do you get from "un-named characters can have a command trait, command ability, and artifact, but named characters can't", to "command traits that also happen to be abilities used in the hero phase should be treated as command abilities"?

I mean, I guess if your group feels that introducing that as a house rule improves the game balance, then OK. I just fail to see why anyone would claim that the rules-as-written are ambiguous about this. Command traits are not command abilities. Some command traits are abilities, but this does not make them command abilities. Some abilities are used in the hero phase, but these are not command abilities.

[valenswift]

A further question on this regarding the extra attacks. My friend who plays Ironjawz insists that as his brutes have two choppas, each one gets an extra attack where as I say that it's each melee weapon on their profile that gets the extra attack. For example Brutes have two choppas as one melee weapon where as a Megaboss has two on his profile, Mega choppa and rip tooth fist which would each get an extra attack. Is my interpretation right?

[BaldoBeardo]

You don't get double attacks for two weapons normally, so you don't get double the bonus.

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